How did Herndon/Westfield HS go from top to bottom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire conversation is facinating. The issues of race, class, and socioeconomic status bubble up all throughout this discussion.

All people - rich or middle class, black/white/asian/hispanic- will do what is best for their children. Some people believe having children who can't keep up with the classes offered or otherwise divert resources away from the majority of those who can work at a higher level would take away from their own children's education.

Its facinating because this county votes for democrats overall while actively protecting their own family and community from the impact of policies supported by democrats (i.e. ensuring that children flooding in from the border don't cross the threshold of their public schools, ensuring kids in apartments are sent to certain schools). Like it or not people can and will use their collective political power to do what is best for their children. Calling them names isn't going to stop that.

Only people with enough money can get around the various difficulties imposed by government. (Democrats in this case)

Parks closed during the pandemic? Richer families have land and go online to order playsets. They move to get a yard if they were previously in a townhouse or high rise.

Schools closed during a pandemic? Go private, move to a spot where schools are open because you can work from your laptop, or hire a teacher and form a pod (if you are a ffx county school board member.

Feel that your child is being ignored in public school because there are so many children there new to the country who need intensive help? Move to a different school zone, pay for private or homeschool.

It’s the middle class democrats who can’t make the above work out who vote blue consistently and then complain about the outcome. They are the ones who want to move kids here and there and everywhere.

I have no idea what you're babbling about. Plans have been in the works for a new western HS for a long time; the only difference is that it's finally inching forward now (with over $23 million now set aside for land acquisition). Schools like Chantilly have almost 3000 kids and no room to expand. Only some self-indulgent narcissist would claim it's about screwing middle-class Democrats.

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

If you could manage to compose a sentence that wasn't word salad, your argument might be easier to follow.

But, it doesn't much matter, because you've already made clear that you'll whine if you ever get moved to a school with more low-income Hispanic kids than your currently assigned school, and that nothing else really matters to you.

Just pick up your marbles and leave.

DP. But stop with the character attacks. I’m curious to your rationale for why you are such a fierce advocate for forcing economic and racial diversity in high schools even at the expense of logistics and proximity? Could you tell us a little about your race and income? The vast majority of people in Fairfax have no biases against Hispanics as I see it, but just want to have their community of interest not divided.

So it's "forcing economic and racial diversity" to draw a new school's boundaries to the south and east, but not to the north and east?

I guess it's like "busing" - transporting kids by bus to a high-income school is fine, but transporting kids a similar difference to a more diverse school is "busing."

And "communities of interest" typically are defined by those seeking to reinforce rather than mitigate patterns of segregation. The Floris/Oak Hill/Fox Mill ES area is currently divided among Westfield, Chantilly, and South Lakes HS. Assigning them to a new school would unite them, but people will claim there's a "community of interest" with other areas assigned to, say, Oakton, because they don't want their kids at a school with more poor kids.

We get it. You don’t like poor Hispanics. Give it a rest.

You don't get it at all, and unfortunately your attempts at snappy responses are becoming progressively less coherent.

You are in my neighboring community and I see you all the time.

Sounds like "The Sixth Sense."

[Anonymous]

Would it be more efficient to do a county wide boundary change vs. A new hs due projected growth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So based on this logic the whole time the Langley/Herndon situation was nothing but a farce with no regards to proximity but rather for schools to reach parity. Got it. No one is being discriminated against. Nothing but hypocrites suggesting that An area where hispanics voluntarily choose to self congregate in numbers greater than 70% should be divided up to balance FARMS and that the only way to help these kids is to bring in white and Asians. The Hispanics seem happy with such arrangement so why change it? Are the Hispanics racist as well? Don’t you progressives have any faith in the Hispanics ability to set achieve and match the academic performance of their peers.

Let's take this one at a time:

1. If they build a school near Hutchison, and assign the largest ES feeder to Herndon (Hutchison ES) to the new school, that certainly suggests that the western part of the Langley boundary (Forestville ES and say 1/2 of Great Falls ES) could be reassigned to Herndon, which would take the greater proximity of those students of those students to Herndon into account.

2. The notion that Hispanics are voluntarily choosing to self-segregate in Herndon is debatable. Hispanics live throughout the DC area (MD, VA, DC), throughout NoVa (in Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William), and throughout Fairfax (with concentrations along the Route 1 area, Falls Church, Annandale, Springfield, and Herndon), presumably based on where they work and what's affordable. It happens that Herndon has a concentration of affordable apartments, as do other areas.

3. It's really not that controversial an idea that, in designing the boundaries of a new school, a school system might aim for a contiguous area that reflects socio-economic diversity. That is certainly what FCPS did when it opened Westfield and South County (and then later readjusted the South County/Hayfield boundaries). There are high schools that skew extremely low (Langley) or high (Justice, Annandale, Mount Vernon, Lewis) FARMS, but they evolved in that direction over time, with the differences magnified in some cases by incremental decisions made to address temporary overcrowding problems (Langley, Annandale) or odd feeder patterns (Lewis). Whatever that means, it doesn't mean that concentrating low-income Hispanic kids at a new school from its inception is a typical or laudable goal.

4. A new school will only be built if the need for the school exists and the land can be assembled. But a potential new school that would bring together students from Hutchison, Coates, McNair, Oak Hill, Fox Mill, and part of Floris would reflect the demographics of that general area of western Fairfax, with the largest numbers of students being Asian and Hispanic. It would not reflect a lack of confidence in the ability of any one group of students to succeed so much as acknowledge the benefits of diversity and the need to offer opportunities to a diverse range of students.

5. Over the past 14 years, the FCPS School Boards have been incredibly cautious and risk-averse when it's come to adjusting school boundaries. If there is any hypocrisy in the system, it is the repeated pattern of (a) changing boundaries when they can move students to a wealthier school while (b) building additions to keep students from being moved to a less wealthy school. But the opening of a new high school is different, because there is simply no way to do it without upsetting someone, and the odds are greater that they will simply bite the bullet and try and get it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Using VDOE statistics for current 6th graders, it appears a new high school drawing from the current 6th graders from Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris would look about like this:

Class size - @ 560-570 kids

FARMS rate: @ 33.5% (slightly above current county-wide rate)

Ethnic composition: Asian 36.7%, Hispanic 27.3%, White 22.4%, Black 9.2%, Multi-Racial 4.4%

So, like Centreville and Chantilly now, it would have a plurality Asian population and would not resemble Mount Vernon, which is currently both majority FARMS and majority Hispanic.

Everyone who was basing their data off of this needs to RE-EVALUATE NOW because for enrollment alone after triple checking, the class size is ~690 kids! Way way off base. I am positive the OP to the original comment didn't realize that McNair was split into a lower and upper school thus effecting the enrollment numbers. No way this could fit both Oak Hill and Fox Mill, it has to drop one. Thus, probably turning this somewhere around 45-50% or so FARMS kids. And then again kids .5 miles from Hutchison HS are being sent to Herndon HS still! The above seems to have been written as a self fulfilling wish and as such neglected data counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using VDOE statistics for current 6th graders, it appears a new high school drawing from the current 6th graders from Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris would look about like this:

Class size - @ 560-570 kids

FARMS rate: @ 33.5% (slightly above current county-wide rate)

Ethnic composition: Asian 36.7%, Hispanic 27.3%, White 22.4%, Black 9.2%, Multi-Racial 4.4%

So, like Centreville and Chantilly now, it would have a plurality Asian population and would not resemble Mount Vernon, which is currently both majority FARMS and majority Hispanic.

Everyone who was basing their data off of this needs to RE-EVALUATE NOW because for enrollment alone after triple checking, the class size is ~690 kids! Way way off base. I am positive the OP to the original comment didn't realize that McNair was split into a lower and upper school thus effecting the enrollment numbers. No way this could fit both Oak Hill and Fox Mill, it has to drop one. Thus, probably turning this somewhere around 45-50% or so FARMS kids. And then again kids .5 miles from Hutchison HS are being sent to Herndon HS still! The above seems to have been written as a self fulfilling wish and as such neglected data counts.

Nope. It was based on the current 6th graders at Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris. Obviously the 6th graders at McNair attend McNair Upper.

The fact that there might be a few Herndon ES kids living closer to the Western HS site at Hutchison than Herndon HS who remained zoned to Herndon wouldn't invalidate the Hutchison-Coates-McNair-Fox Mill-Oak Hill- 50% Floris plan. If you flipped it and moved Herndon ES to the Western HS site, you'd then have kids living within .25 miles of Herndon HS being sent to Hutchison HS.

I hope you save all these corrections of your misstatements for when you really need them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My god some of you really need to take a look at this map. On all sides the Hutchinson site is surrounded by low income areas. Clearview, lake Anne, Herndon to the north and Dogwood/Coates to the south. Other poster is correct in asserting that Hutchinson HS will be the Mount Vernon of Western Fairfax. And in turn the closest areas from overcrowded Centreville/Chantilly to Westfield are the low income areas of Brookfield/Centre ridge/Bull Run. It seems all but likely that Hutchinson HS will be built and Westfield HS will be triaged to improve the other pyramids in Western Fairfax.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Elementary%20School%20Boundaries%20With%20High%20School%20Boundaries.pdf

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Elementary%20School%20Boundaries%20With%20High%20School%20Boundaries.pdf

Except that's not how they'd draw the boundaries.

They aren't going to load up Western HS with all those schools. More likely it would be Hutchison, Coates, McNair, part of Floris, Oak Hill, and Fox Mill.

Pulling Hutchison out of Herndon will allow them to move Forestville and part of Great Falls to Herndon. That would reduce the concentration of poverty at Herndon and create space at Langley to accommodate growth further east planned in Tysons.

Pulling Coates, McNair, and part of Floris out of Westfield would allow them to move Bull Run from Centreville and potentially move Willow Springs out of Fairfax to Centreville.

Moving Oak Hill out of Chantilly would relieve overcrowding there.

Pulling Fox Mill out of South Lakes would enable South Lakes, if necessary, to take more of Crossfield if Oakton were overcrowded.

Of course this is conjecture, but (1) they won't create "Mount Vernon West" if they build at Hutchison and (2) any new high school will inevitably result in many boundary changes.

This seems the most common sense, fair solution. The school board unfortunately will never approve something like this. It makes too much sense.

Thank you. It's just one scenario, but it seemed aligned with many of the potential goals of a new school in western Fairfax.

As for whether the School Board will approve something like this, your cynicism is well founded based on what we've seen from recent school boards, but it could always be an "even a broken clock is right twice a day" situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using VDOE statistics for current 6th graders, it appears a new high school drawing from the current 6th graders from Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris would look about like this:

Class size - @ 560-570 kids

FARMS rate: @ 33.5% (slightly above current county-wide rate)

Ethnic composition: Asian 36.7%, Hispanic 27.3%, White 22.4%, Black 9.2%, Multi-Racial 4.4%

So, like Centreville and Chantilly now, it would have a plurality Asian population and would not resemble Mount Vernon, which is currently both majority FARMS and majority Hispanic.

Everyone who was basing their data off of this needs to RE-EVALUATE NOW because for enrollment alone after triple checking, the class size is ~690 kids! Way way off base. I am positive the OP to the original comment didn't realize that McNair was split into a lower and upper school thus effecting the enrollment numbers. No way this could fit both Oak Hill and Fox Mill, it has to drop one. Thus, probably turning this somewhere around 45-50% or so FARMS kids. And then again kids .5 miles from Hutchison HS are being sent to Herndon HS still! The above seems to have been written as a self fulfilling wish and as such neglected data counts.

Nope. It was based on the current 6th graders at Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris. Obviously the 6th graders at McNair attend McNair Upper.

The fact that there might be a few Herndon ES kids living closer to the Western HS site at Hutchison than Herndon HS who remained zoned to Herndon wouldn't invalidate the Hutchison-Coates-McNair-Fox Mill-Oak Hill- 50% Floris plan. If you flipped it and moved Herndon ES to the Western HS site, you'd then have kids living within .25 miles of Herndon HS being sent to Hutchison HS.

I hope you save all these corrections of your misstatements for when you really need them.

What an idiot. Who’s the one who needs to be corrected? 690 total. Receipts here and now apologize. What arrogance you have and who is the one needing a correction. Now?
For Herndon ES/Clearview I’m obviously talking about the areas across the street from Hutchison than the Northern areas,
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:285,0
Coates 100
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:286,0
Floris 1/2 = 50
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:287,0
Hutchison 150
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:333,0
oak Hill 150
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:334,0
Fox mill 80
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:027,0
McNair 160

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would it be more efficient to do a county wide boundary change vs. A new hs due projected growth?

That's a good question, but a tough one to answer.

The growth is mostly in the northern and western parts of the county and the surplus capacity is mostly in the southeastern part of the county. Except for West Potomac HS, which has a gazillion feeders, and Fairfax HS, which has surplus capacity now because they kicked county kids out a few years ago.

I don't know how you spend $40M to expand West Potomac to 3000 seats to keep kids out of nearby, under-enrolled Mount Vernon and then tell people in western Fairfax they can't have a new school near their homes or an addition to their current schools (where feasible) because there's space at Lewis or Hayfield that warrants county-wide adjustments.

If you look at a map, the two areas in FCPS that are furthest from a HS are (1) the area near Carson MS in western Fairfax; and (2) the areas near the southern part of Fairfax Station and Clifton that currently feed to Robinson and Lake Braddock. There is a lot more growth near the former than the latter, and both Robinson and Lake Braddock are below capacity, which is why the "Western HS" has been a priority over a "Clifton HS."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using VDOE statistics for current 6th graders, it appears a new high school drawing from the current 6th graders from Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris would look about like this:

Class size - @ 560-570 kids

FARMS rate: @ 33.5% (slightly above current county-wide rate)

Ethnic composition: Asian 36.7%, Hispanic 27.3%, White 22.4%, Black 9.2%, Multi-Racial 4.4%

So, like Centreville and Chantilly now, it would have a plurality Asian population and would not resemble Mount Vernon, which is currently both majority FARMS and majority Hispanic.

Everyone who was basing their data off of this needs to RE-EVALUATE NOW because for enrollment alone after triple checking, the class size is ~690 kids! Way way off base. I am positive the OP to the original comment didn't realize that McNair was split into a lower and upper school thus effecting the enrollment numbers. No way this could fit both Oak Hill and Fox Mill, it has to drop one. Thus, probably turning this somewhere around 45-50% or so FARMS kids. And then again kids .5 miles from Hutchison HS are being sent to Herndon HS still! The above seems to have been written as a self fulfilling wish and as such neglected data counts.

Nope. It was based on the current 6th graders at Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris. Obviously the 6th graders at McNair attend McNair Upper.

The fact that there might be a few Herndon ES kids living closer to the Western HS site at Hutchison than Herndon HS who remained zoned to Herndon wouldn't invalidate the Hutchison-Coates-McNair-Fox Mill-Oak Hill- 50% Floris plan. If you flipped it and moved Herndon ES to the Western HS site, you'd then have kids living within .25 miles of Herndon HS being sent to Hutchison HS.

I hope you save all these corrections of your misstatements for when you really need them.

What an idiot. Who’s the one who needs to be corrected? 690 total. Receipts here and now apologize. What arrogance you have and who is the one needing a correction. Now?
For Herndon ES/Clearview I’m obviously talking about the areas across the street from Hutchison than the Northern areas,
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:285,0
Coates 100
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:286,0
Floris 1/2 = 50
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:287,0
Hutchison 150
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:333,0
oak Hill 150
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:334,0
Fox mill 80
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:027,0
McNair 160

indeed.

You really suck at DCUM.

[Anonymous]

PP was very clear the estimate was based on the current 6th graders at those elementary schools. That information can be found in the "Monthly Membership Reports," available at https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/performance-and-accountability/student-reporting.

Of course, prior or subsequent classes could be larger or smaller. If they were larger, that would be all the more reason to accommodate them at the new Western HS, since otherwise they might further overcrowd existing schools. Chantilly, in particular, is almost at 3000 kids already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Using VDOE statistics for current 6th graders, it appears a new high school drawing from the current 6th graders from Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris would look about like this:

Class size - @ 560-570 kids

FARMS rate: @ 33.5% (slightly above current county-wide rate)

Ethnic composition: Asian 36.7%, Hispanic 27.3%, White 22.4%, Black 9.2%, Multi-Racial 4.4%

So, like Centreville and Chantilly now, it would have a plurality Asian population and would not resemble Mount Vernon, which is currently both majority FARMS and majority Hispanic.

Everyone who was basing their data off of this needs to RE-EVALUATE NOW because for enrollment alone after triple checking, the class size is ~690 kids! Way way off base. I am positive the OP to the original comment didn't realize that McNair was split into a lower and upper school thus effecting the enrollment numbers. No way this could fit both Oak Hill and Fox Mill, it has to drop one. Thus, probably turning this somewhere around 45-50% or so FARMS kids. And then again kids .5 miles from Hutchison HS are being sent to Herndon HS still! The above seems to have been written as a self fulfilling wish and as such neglected data counts.

Nope. It was based on the current 6th graders at Coates, Fox Mill, Hutchison, McNair, Oak Hill, and 1/2 of Floris. Obviously the 6th graders at McNair attend McNair Upper.

The fact that there might be a few Herndon ES kids living closer to the Western HS site at Hutchison than Herndon HS who remained zoned to Herndon wouldn't invalidate the Hutchison-Coates-McNair-Fox Mill-Oak Hill- 50% Floris plan. If you flipped it and moved Herndon ES to the Western HS site, you'd then have kids living within .25 miles of Herndon HS being sent to Hutchison HS.

I hope you save all these corrections of your misstatements for when you really need them.

What an idiot. Who’s the one who needs to be corrected? 690 total. Receipts here and now apologize. What arrogance you have and who is the one needing a correction. Now?
For Herndon ES/Clearview I’m obviously talking about the areas across the street from Hutchison than the Northern areas,
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:285,0
Coates 100
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:286,0
Floris 1/2 = 50
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:287,0
Hutchison 150
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:333,0
oak Hill 150
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:334,0
Fox mill 80
https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:027,0
McNair 160

indeed.

You really suck at DCUM.

Thanks I am bad at this website. But what a gift from God it must be to be bad @ DCUM rather than accusing others
Of making up numbers instead of looking in the mirror.

[Anonymous]

Six dead links and arguments that are based on misinterpreting prior posts and have no merit.

Not a great look so far.

[Anonymous]

The shills for advocating disparate communities be bused into Hutchison HS are probably lower middle-class Asian Coates/McNair parents who see the writing on the wall given Hutchison's immediate surrounding neighborhoods and want to bus in Oak Hill/Floris/Fox Mill to desperately improve their future school's ranking. I say this as an Asian myself. They have the most to gain by proposing this and the most to lose if the proximity standard is utilized as it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Six dead links and arguments that are based on misinterpreting prior posts and have no merit.

Not a great look so far.

Show me where you got your sixth grader enrollment from and how you handled your calculations of missing 130 kids per class size, otherwise you just sound salty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The shills for advocating disparate communities be bused into Hutchison HS are probably lower middle-class Asian Coates/McNair parents who see the writing on the wall given Hutchison's immediate surrounding neighborhoods and want to bus in Oak Hill/Floris/Fox Mill to desperately improve their future school's ranking. I say this as an Asian myself. They have the most to gain by proposing this and the most to lose if the proximity standard is utilized as it should be.

OMG - let's not make kids from "disparate communities" attend the same schools! They might end up in the same classrooms, eat lunch together, or even date!