How did Herndon/Westfield HS go from top to bottom?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nothing says “white supremacy” more loudly than “every school needs a certain percentage of white children to be good.”


Not necessarily. If you have a school system runs by whites primarily for the benefit of white children, then having white kids in your school may be necessary to ensure it gets appropriate resources and attention.

There was a reason why “separate but equal” was invalidated. The NAACP didn’t challenge it because they thought White children were superior. They challenged it because they knew Black schools were inferior.


So you need the racist white government which is against poc to make racist white peoples go to school with poc so the racist white peoples will be forced to give poc the same quality. Makes sense, especially these days.

It should be easy enough in Fairfax county with our internet and smart phones to find out where the school board and gatehouse are failing to spend as much per pupil and to provide the “not white enough” schools with the same maintenance, infrastructure etc. as the “white enough to care about” schools.



I'm saying context matters. You made a very broad statement.

If you want to talk about current FCPS spending, most of us know FCPS spends considerably more per student on schools with more low-income students (which in FCPS usually means schools with fewer, not more, White kids). And they spend the least on the schools with the most White and Asian kids.



Case in point:

McLean HS is severely overcrowded, yet it’s been bumped to last in line for renovation because FFX replaced 17 of the 21 trailers with a prefab “pod” (glorified trailer).

The hyper-progressive school board hates McLean because of all the Asian and white students.


really? so they hate McLean but not the nearby richer Langley? I am not happy with the SB but please stop pulling stuff out of your butt.


Not PP, but Langley’s renovation was basically funded and done before the current SB was re-elected.

Currently all three of the most overcrowded high schools in the county (Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean) are heavily Asian and they’ve barely lifted a finger to address it. Meanwhile less crowded Justice HS is getting a big addition outside the renovation cycle. Even if it’s not hate, it certainly is neglect and incompetence.


Are they redistrictning new neighborhoods to Justice? That school has a decent campus, hidden as it is from busy Leesburg Pike. Or will the new, extra space allow it to absorb projected student growth w/o trailers. There’s a large development of new homes in Sleepy Hollow Drive which may contribute to substantial growth. Office to apartment conversions in Skyline will also contribute.


There is no redistricting planned to add kids to Justice. What is “Sleepy Hollow Drive”? Are you referring to the 18 new houses that Gulick is building off Sleepy Hollow Road? Under the FCPS student yield formula that would only add 3-4 kids to Justice. And why should FCPS prioritize an addition at Justice to anticipate future office conversions when other high schools are already more overcrowded NOW.

FCPS planning sucks and the School Board members are either too hostile or too lazy to do anything about it.


What you write makes sense. I’m just trying to understand the FCPS planning rationale behind the large addition. I wonder if it’s an equity thing or due to strong PTA advocacy. Falls Church HS gets its expensive overhaul due to years of PTA pressure from an active parent group. Yet it seems McLean has been crowded for years and years? And the facilities are outdated and look unappealing for such a wealthy area. Justice looks beautiful though. Same with Langley. Etc.


McLean needs an expansion. Justice doesn't. That is common sense based on the number of kids at the school. Got it. Not going to disagree. But McLean needs an update for a variety of reasons, least of which is that it looks unappealing for such a wealthy area. It is phrases like that that cause people to roll their eyes and not care. You move from a solid argument (Over Crowded, need room, needs update to bring the building to current code and standards) to sounding entitled (put the area has lots of money so the school should reflect that). Just saying, it is bad PR. Stick to the facts, leave out the aesthetics.

And yet, there are other places to live with good schools, more affordable houses, and that are not over crowded but you choose to move to McLean because you have this vision of this totally superior school that it is important your kid to. You choose that knowing the situation and somehow you remain flabbergasted that the situation isn't being rectified. I mean, just looking at the past 10 years, I don't know why anyone would buy a house in McLean and expect that the HS isn't going to stay overcrowded. Maybe you should have looked at different locations with less crowded high schools. At some point in time, all these folks who want a great education for their kids will realize that there are plenty of other schools that provide a great education and that the overall test scores are lower because there is less accumulated wealth in the area. Stop focusing on the slightly higher SAT numbers for the average and realize that many schools have a solid cohort of kids who are invested in their education, which is what you are looking for, and you would find yourself at schools that are not over crowded and with a lower mortage rate.


We don’t live in the McLean zone, but are there a lot for Liberty District sports and activities. I guess I should’ve said “wealthy area in general”. (This isn’t an area of towns or townships that fund their own schools.) All the high schools in the DC area except for a very small handful have been substantially renovated or completely rebuilt. That includes schools in DC and MoCo, not just Arlington, Fairfax County, Falls Church, etc. McLean looks woefully out of place given the context.


I appreciate your acknowledging that you're not in the McLean zone. It's not like your comment was particularly incendiary, but clearly PP saw something in your post that could be used as an opportunity to bash MHS families for not buying elsewhere.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Based on your question, it's clear you've arrived to your ranking of schools by judging the success of ESOL students. Frankly, the majority of posters here don't care about the success of ESOL students, so I don't understand why that metric is used so often to compare schools.

We need a better way to know how the actual teachers and administration are performing in order to rank the actual schools, not the ESOL kids.


Illegal immigrants will do that to a school/


Many Asian students are ESOL. English is their second language. I was one of those Asian kids. My parents taught me to read and write English when I was in Korea and I never had to go to ESL because I could keep up in school.

We live in McLean zoned for Langley. There are a lot of Asian students who are not even immigrants. They are here for a few years. Some are in ESOL. Many don’t need it even though English is their second language. Same for the Europeans. Well educated immigrants perform well regardless whether English is their second language.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Based on your question, it's clear you've arrived to your ranking of schools by judging the success of ESOL students. Frankly, the majority of posters here don't care about the success of ESOL students, so I don't understand why that metric is used so often to compare schools.

We need a better way to know how the actual teachers and administration are performing in order to rank the actual schools, not the ESOL kids.


Illegal immigrants will do that to a school/


Many Asian students are ESOL. English is their second language. I was one of those Asian kids. My parents taught me to read and write English when I was in Korea and I never had to go to ESL because I could keep up in school.

We live in McLean zoned for Langley. There are a lot of Asian students who are not even immigrants. They are here for a few years. Some are in ESOL. Many don’t need it even though English is their second language. Same for the Europeans. Well educated immigrants perform well regardless whether English is their second language.


Asian immigrants in Great Falls zoned for Langley were among those screaming the loudest back in 2019 against ever getting zoned back to Herndon (not that it was going to happen any time soon; it was just a wedge issue the Republicans came up with to try and stir people up). It was ugly.
Anonymous
McNair Upper has terrible leadership. Probably poisoned the whole pyramid.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:McNair Upper has terrible leadership. Probably poisoned the whole pyramid.


Virginia Run leadership as well
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nothing says “white supremacy” more loudly than “every school needs a certain percentage of white children to be good.”


Not necessarily. If you have a school system runs by whites primarily for the benefit of white children, then having white kids in your school may be necessary to ensure it gets appropriate resources and attention.

There was a reason why “separate but equal” was invalidated. The NAACP didn’t challenge it because they thought White children were superior. They challenged it because they knew Black schools were inferior.


So you need the racist white government which is against poc to make racist white peoples go to school with poc so the racist white peoples will be forced to give poc the same quality. Makes sense, especially these days.

It should be easy enough in Fairfax county with our internet and smart phones to find out where the school board and gatehouse are failing to spend as much per pupil and to provide the “not white enough” schools with the same maintenance, infrastructure etc. as the “white enough to care about” schools.



I'm saying context matters. You made a very broad statement.

If you want to talk about current FCPS spending, most of us know FCPS spends considerably more per student on schools with more low-income students (which in FCPS usually means schools with fewer, not more, White kids). And they spend the least on the schools with the most White and Asian kids.



Case in point:

McLean HS is severely overcrowded, yet it’s been bumped to last in line for renovation because FFX replaced 17 of the 21 trailers with a prefab “pod” (glorified trailer).

The hyper-progressive school board hates McLean because of all the Asian and white students.


really? so they hate McLean but not the nearby richer Langley? I am not happy with the SB but please stop pulling stuff out of your butt.


Not PP, but Langley’s renovation was basically funded and done before the current SB was re-elected.

Currently all three of the most overcrowded high schools in the county (Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean) are heavily Asian and they’ve barely lifted a finger to address it. Meanwhile less crowded Justice HS is getting a big addition outside the renovation cycle. Even if it’s not hate, it certainly is neglect and incompetence.


Are they redistrictning new neighborhoods to Justice? That school has a decent campus, hidden as it is from busy Leesburg Pike. Or will the new, extra space allow it to absorb projected student growth w/o trailers. There’s a large development of new homes in Sleepy Hollow Drive which may contribute to substantial growth. Office to apartment conversions in Skyline will also contribute.


There is no redistricting planned to add kids to Justice. What is “Sleepy Hollow Drive”? Are you referring to the 18 new houses that Gulick is building off Sleepy Hollow Road? Under the FCPS student yield formula that would only add 3-4 kids to Justice. And why should FCPS prioritize an addition at Justice to anticipate future office conversions when other high schools are already more overcrowded NOW.

FCPS planning sucks and the School Board members are either too hostile or too lazy to do anything about it.


What you write makes sense. I’m just trying to understand the FCPS planning rationale behind the large addition. I wonder if it’s an equity thing or due to strong PTA advocacy. Falls Church HS gets its expensive overhaul due to years of PTA pressure from an active parent group. Yet it seems McLean has been crowded for years and years? And the facilities are outdated and look unappealing for such a wealthy area. Justice looks beautiful though. Same with Langley. Etc.


McLean needs an expansion. Justice doesn't. That is common sense based on the number of kids at the school. Got it. Not going to disagree. But McLean needs an update for a variety of reasons, least of which is that it looks unappealing for such a wealthy area. It is phrases like that that cause people to roll their eyes and not care. You move from a solid argument (Over Crowded, need room, needs update to bring the building to current code and standards) to sounding entitled (put the area has lots of money so the school should reflect that). Just saying, it is bad PR. Stick to the facts, leave out the aesthetics.

And yet, there are other places to live with good schools, more affordable houses, and that are not over crowded but you choose to move to McLean because you have this vision of this totally superior school that it is important your kid to. You choose that knowing the situation and somehow you remain flabbergasted that the situation isn't being rectified. I mean, just looking at the past 10 years, I don't know why anyone would buy a house in McLean and expect that the HS isn't going to stay overcrowded. Maybe you should have looked at different locations with less crowded high schools. At some point in time, all these folks who want a great education for their kids will realize that there are plenty of other schools that provide a great education and that the overall test scores are lower because there is less accumulated wealth in the area. Stop focusing on the slightly higher SAT numbers for the average and realize that many schools have a solid cohort of kids who are invested in their education, which is what you are looking for, and you would find yourself at schools that are not over crowded and with a lower mortage rate.


I don't think the poster to whom you responded is a McLean parent, so you might want to allow for that possibility.

Anyway, McLean was lied to by both Janie Strauss and Elaine Tholen. Parents do have a right to assume that, when a school has been overcrowded for a decade, that FCPS will come up with a decent plan to add capacity, and not leave it with far fewer permanent seats than other, less crowded schools.

Strauss told us that McLean would get an addition before any kids were ever redistricted to Langley. That was a lie.

Tholen told us that she would prioritize getting McLean in the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) for an eventual permanent addition. That was also a lie.

We politely supplied FCPS with facts and figures for years, wrote emails, showed up at CIP hearings and testified politely, etc. When we weren't being lied to, we were ignored.

It will make for a very interesting Dranesville race for the School Board next year, especially if Tholen decides to run again.


It's going to take a McLean parent running on the promise of renovating McLean and opposing literally everything else until that happens.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nothing says “white supremacy” more loudly than “every school needs a certain percentage of white children to be good.”


Not necessarily. If you have a school system runs by whites primarily for the benefit of white children, then having white kids in your school may be necessary to ensure it gets appropriate resources and attention.

There was a reason why “separate but equal” was invalidated. The NAACP didn’t challenge it because they thought White children were superior. They challenged it because they knew Black schools were inferior.


So you need the racist white government which is against poc to make racist white peoples go to school with poc so the racist white peoples will be forced to give poc the same quality. Makes sense, especially these days.

It should be easy enough in Fairfax county with our internet and smart phones to find out where the school board and gatehouse are failing to spend as much per pupil and to provide the “not white enough” schools with the same maintenance, infrastructure etc. as the “white enough to care about” schools.



I'm saying context matters. You made a very broad statement.

If you want to talk about current FCPS spending, most of us know FCPS spends considerably more per student on schools with more low-income students (which in FCPS usually means schools with fewer, not more, White kids). And they spend the least on the schools with the most White and Asian kids.



Case in point:

McLean HS is severely overcrowded, yet it’s been bumped to last in line for renovation because FFX replaced 17 of the 21 trailers with a prefab “pod” (glorified trailer).

The hyper-progressive school board hates McLean because of all the Asian and white students.


really? so they hate McLean but not the nearby richer Langley? I am not happy with the SB but please stop pulling stuff out of your butt.


Not PP, but Langley’s renovation was basically funded and done before the current SB was re-elected.

Currently all three of the most overcrowded high schools in the county (Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean) are heavily Asian and they’ve barely lifted a finger to address it. Meanwhile less crowded Justice HS is getting a big addition outside the renovation cycle. Even if it’s not hate, it certainly is neglect and incompetence.


Are they redistrictning new neighborhoods to Justice? That school has a decent campus, hidden as it is from busy Leesburg Pike. Or will the new, extra space allow it to absorb projected student growth w/o trailers. There’s a large development of new homes in Sleepy Hollow Drive which may contribute to substantial growth. Office to apartment conversions in Skyline will also contribute.


There is no redistricting planned to add kids to Justice. What is “Sleepy Hollow Drive”? Are you referring to the 18 new houses that Gulick is building off Sleepy Hollow Road? Under the FCPS student yield formula that would only add 3-4 kids to Justice. And why should FCPS prioritize an addition at Justice to anticipate future office conversions when other high schools are already more overcrowded NOW.

FCPS planning sucks and the School Board members are either too hostile or too lazy to do anything about it.


What you write makes sense. I’m just trying to understand the FCPS planning rationale behind the large addition. I wonder if it’s an equity thing or due to strong PTA advocacy. Falls Church HS gets its expensive overhaul due to years of PTA pressure from an active parent group. Yet it seems McLean has been crowded for years and years? And the facilities are outdated and look unappealing for such a wealthy area. Justice looks beautiful though. Same with Langley. Etc.


McLean needs an expansion. Justice doesn't. That is common sense based on the number of kids at the school. Got it. Not going to disagree. But McLean needs an update for a variety of reasons, least of which is that it looks unappealing for such a wealthy area. It is phrases like that that cause people to roll their eyes and not care. You move from a solid argument (Over Crowded, need room, needs update to bring the building to current code and standards) to sounding entitled (put the area has lots of money so the school should reflect that). Just saying, it is bad PR. Stick to the facts, leave out the aesthetics.

And yet, there are other places to live with good schools, more affordable houses, and that are not over crowded but you choose to move to McLean because you have this vision of this totally superior school that it is important your kid to. You choose that knowing the situation and somehow you remain flabbergasted that the situation isn't being rectified. I mean, just looking at the past 10 years, I don't know why anyone would buy a house in McLean and expect that the HS isn't going to stay overcrowded. Maybe you should have looked at different locations with less crowded high schools. At some point in time, all these folks who want a great education for their kids will realize that there are plenty of other schools that provide a great education and that the overall test scores are lower because there is less accumulated wealth in the area. Stop focusing on the slightly higher SAT numbers for the average and realize that many schools have a solid cohort of kids who are invested in their education, which is what you are looking for, and you would find yourself at schools that are not over crowded and with a lower mortage rate.


I don't think the poster to whom you responded is a McLean parent, so you might want to allow for that possibility.

Anyway, McLean was lied to by both Janie Strauss and Elaine Tholen. Parents do have a right to assume that, when a school has been overcrowded for a decade, that FCPS will come up with a decent plan to add capacity, and not leave it with far fewer permanent seats than other, less crowded schools.

Strauss told us that McLean would get an addition before any kids were ever redistricted to Langley. That was a lie.

Tholen told us that she would prioritize getting McLean in the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) for an eventual permanent addition. That was also a lie.

We politely supplied FCPS with facts and figures for years, wrote emails, showed up at CIP hearings and testified politely, etc. When we weren't being lied to, we were ignored.

It will make for a very interesting Dranesville race for the School Board next year, especially if Tholen decides to run again.


It's going to take a McLean parent running on the promise of renovating McLean and opposing literally everything else until that happens.


McLean will wait its turn for a full renovation. What's unconscionable is that it's been discriminated against for years when it comes to getting funding for a less costly addition, similar to those funded a few years ago at newer, less crowded schools like Justice and Madison.

Tholen should have been lobbying her colleagues (all from the same party as her) and, if getting nowhere, going public with her frustration. But she hasn't because she's a rubber-stamp for how the other School Board members want to spend FCPS funds, so long as they let her protect Langley from overcrowding or any economic diversity.

She's not much better for Herndon. Herndon did get renovated but she had nothing to do with it. Thank God someone else will replace her soon.
post reply Forum Index » Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS)
Message Quick Reply
Go to: