I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wish I’d seen this yesterday.

No, zero Republicans support the voting rules legislation proposed by Democrats to federalize elections.

Again, it isn't federalizing elections, it is creating minimum standards for all us voters. AND, it is well within the specific purview of the US Constitution.

Why do you hate America so much that you don't want to maximize the number of Americans who can vote legally and safely and have their votes counted?

Let’s start with a national requirement to show proof of ID at the voting polls. One uniform system across the country - much like the requirements for the REAL ID. Let’s start with that and go from there.

…that’s in the bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wish I’d seen this yesterday.

No, zero Republicans support the voting rules legislation proposed by Democrats to federalize elections.

It mostly restores provisions in the Voting Rights Law that 16 current Republicans supported in the past. They didn't think it federalized elections then. What happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wish I’d seen this yesterday.

No, zero Republicans support the voting rules legislation proposed by Democrats to federalize elections.

It mostly restores provisions in the Voting Rights Law that 16 current Republicans supported in the past. They didn't think it federalized elections then. What happened?

Their supporters have died. If they don’t cheat, they don’t retain power.

And for most of them there’s a strong component of keeping Black people in their place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a better question is: convince the rest of us that voter restriction laws are necessary.

They aren't. And, there are no voter restriction laws. Not for legal, registered voters.

They aren't.

- then why in fact did Republicans pass dozens of new voting laws in numerous states?

And, there are no voter restriction laws. Not for legal, registered voters.

This is just flat out wrong. Many examples have been given of how voting has become harder for legal, registered voters. Along with legal, registered voters being purged from voting rolls for no good reason. Along with how it's gotten harder for legal voters to get registered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a better question is: convince the rest of us that voter restriction laws are necessary.

They aren't. And, there are no voter restriction laws. Not for legal, registered voters.

They aren't.

- then why in fact did Republicans pass dozens of new voting laws in numerous states?

And, there are no voter restriction laws. Not for legal, registered voters.

This is just flat out wrong. Many examples have been given of how voting has become harder for legal, registered voters. Along with legal, registered voters being purged from voting rolls for no good reason. Along with how it's gotten harder for legal voters to get registered.

+1
This thread has been a great example of
Gaslight
Obstruct
Project

Republicans are nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wish I’d seen this yesterday.

No, zero Republicans support the voting rules legislation proposed by Democrats to federalize elections.

Again, it isn't federalizing elections, it is creating minimum standards for all us voters. AND, it is well within the specific purview of the US Constitution.

Why do you hate America so much that you don't want to maximize the number of Americans who can vote legally and safely and have their votes counted?

Let’s start with a national requirement to show proof of ID at the voting polls. One uniform system across the country - much like the requirements for the REAL ID. Let’s start with that and go from there.

The Dems offered this and the GOP refused. But if you want to make getting an ID free, then I 100% agree. As do ALL of the Dems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wish I’d seen this yesterday.

No, zero Republicans support the voting rules legislation proposed by Democrats to federalize elections.

Again, it isn't federalizing elections, it is creating minimum standards for all us voters. AND, it is well within the specific purview of the US Constitution.

Why do you hate America so much that you don't want to maximize the number of Americans who can vote legally and safely and have their votes counted?

Let’s start with a national requirement to show proof of ID at the voting polls. One uniform system across the country - much like the requirements for the REAL ID. Let’s start with that and go from there.

The Dems offered this and the GOP refused. But if you want to make getting an ID free, then I 100% agree. As do ALL of the Dems.

Name a state that requires voter ID that doesn't offer a free ID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wish I’d seen this yesterday.

No, zero Republicans support the voting rules legislation proposed by Democrats to federalize elections.

Again, it isn't federalizing elections, it is creating minimum standards for all us voters. AND, it is well within the specific purview of the US Constitution.

Why do you hate America so much that you don't want to maximize the number of Americans who can vote legally and safely and have their votes counted?

Let’s start with a national requirement to show proof of ID at the voting polls. One uniform system across the country - much like the requirements for the REAL ID. Let’s start with that and go from there.

The Dems offered this and the GOP refused. But if you want to make getting an ID free, then I 100% agree. As do ALL of the Dems.

+1

The GOP itched and moaned about this forever, so fine, the Democrats just want to make it uniformly accessible across the country. As has been listed in this thread (in the many thoughtful posts and links ignored by Republicans who probably consider themselves “rationale”), Republican states have shut down DMVs in the targeted areas to make sure that people can’t get IDs. If IDs are so all fired important, why not take the Democrats up on making sure everyone has the same opportunity?

[Anonymous]

oh hey, it's a TODAY example...

[Anonymous]

Agree, I have no problem at all with voter ID -

IF it's free,
IF the DMV's are fixed,
IF you can walk in and get your ID the same day,
IF people don't have to take time off from work to get it,
IF people don't have to drive 40 miles to the nearest station to get it,
IF your identity can be established in a way that isn't overly restrictive, with commonly available documents,
IF the state offers free and expedient assistance to people who may have special circumstances, like they lost their birth certificate in a fire

I would be fine with ID if things like that can be met.

[Anonymous]

Here’s another example. A quick reminder that Texas Republicans know their state is blue now. They are cheating to artificially keep it red.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Following. For example, democrats are stating that Texas is trying to suppress voting because they are restricting drive through 24/7 voting. Um, what? I live in deep blue Maryland and we don’t have 24/7 drive through voting, but democrats are demanding that Texas do it?
And the whole ID thing. You need ID everywhere. FFS you need ID and Vax card to enter a restaurant in DC now!

To flip the question on its head, why do you feel drive through 24/7 voting should be outlawed? I can't think of one. In many parts of the country there was report after report of people stuck waiting for hours to vote. And, a lot of people have difficult work schedules that aren't compatible with typical polling station hours. Texas cities are also notorious for long commute times due to sprawl development. The more flexibility people have to be allowed to cast their vote, the better. How is it good for Democracy to have policies that make it too hard for people to vote?

With regard to ID, actual proven cases of in-person voter fraud are extremely rare and where people have attempted, they have typically been caught or turned away. So you're trying to "solve" a problem that doesn't meaningfully exist. I thought Republicans were against unnecessary laws and regulations. Also, even if you do require ID, why be overly restrictive? Why refuse student IDs? Believe it or not, a lot of urban teens don't drive. Republicans want to restrict it to driver's license or similar state-issued ID but a lot of Americans don't have such an ID. *IF* that's the requirement, then it's a problem. Most DMVs are a mess. It's hell to get an appointment, appointments may be weeks or months out, when you do finally get an appointment, you're typically going to be waiting in line for a couple of hours to have your documents checked, get your photo taken, etc. If you work, it typically means taking a day off work to get it. And, those IDs typically cost money. That's illegal if it's a requirement for voting. If it costs you, in terms of fees to get the ID or loss of income, that would in effect constitute a poll tax, which is illegal. IF they can make getting an acceptable ID FREE and FAST then I'd have no problem with it. You have to fix those DMVs first before demanding those IDs.

I teach a course on US pipeline regulations and I'm required to get a copy of my students DL and anyone that has to get qualified to perform a coveted task on a pipeline has to show a government issued picture ID (note it doesn't say US government) so what's the big deal about showing a government picture id? Don't drive then get a state ID card or concealed carry card or a passport. This is a non-issue!

I have to show a license to buy beer, cigarettes, cough medicine and spray paint for god sake! You can show one to vote.

[Anonymous]

So I can't get on a plane and fly without an ID but I can vote for the future of the county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Following. For example, democrats are stating that Texas is trying to suppress voting because they are restricting drive through 24/7 voting. Um, what? I live in deep blue Maryland and we don’t have 24/7 drive through voting, but democrats are demanding that Texas do it?
And the whole ID thing. You need ID everywhere. FFS you need ID and Vax card to enter a restaurant in DC now!

To flip the question on its head, why do you feel drive through 24/7 voting should be outlawed? I can't think of one. In many parts of the country there was report after report of people stuck waiting for hours to vote. And, a lot of people have difficult work schedules that aren't compatible with typical polling station hours. Texas cities are also notorious for long commute times due to sprawl development. The more flexibility people have to be allowed to cast their vote, the better. How is it good for Democracy to have policies that make it too hard for people to vote?

With regard to ID, actual proven cases of in-person voter fraud are extremely rare and where people have attempted, they have typically been caught or turned away. So you're trying to "solve" a problem that doesn't meaningfully exist. I thought Republicans were against unnecessary laws and regulations. Also, even if you do require ID, why be overly restrictive? Why refuse student IDs? Believe it or not, a lot of urban teens don't drive. Republicans want to restrict it to driver's license or similar state-issued ID but a lot of Americans don't have such an ID. *IF* that's the requirement, then it's a problem. Most DMVs are a mess. It's hell to get an appointment, appointments may be weeks or months out, when you do finally get an appointment, you're typically going to be waiting in line for a couple of hours to have your documents checked, get your photo taken, etc. If you work, it typically means taking a day off work to get it. And, those IDs typically cost money. That's illegal if it's a requirement for voting. If it costs you, in terms of fees to get the ID or loss of income, that would in effect constitute a poll tax, which is illegal. IF they can make getting an acceptable ID FREE and FAST then I'd have no problem with it. You have to fix those DMVs first before demanding those IDs.

I teach a course on US pipeline regulations and I'm required to get a copy of my students DL and anyone that has to get qualified to perform a coveted task on a pipeline has to show a government issued picture ID (note it doesn't say US government) so what's the big deal about showing a government picture id? Don't drive then get a state ID card or concealed carry card or a passport. This is a non-issue!

I have to show a license to buy beer, cigarettes, cough medicine and spray paint for god sake! You can show one to vote.

Taking your class is not a constitutional right. People who want to take your class, have this requirement. That isn't a requirement for voting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I can't get on a plane and fly without an ID but I can vote for the future of the county?

Is flying a constitutional right? Do tell.