What do we think about Latin second campus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes- you are right. I will just mention that mathematically with such a small population, small raw numbers make a big percentage change.

Perhaps 8-12 students out of 70 have historically left Latin after 8th grade to head to another high school. Often Walls and often private and often because of sports or other extracurricular pursuits that are more robust elsewhere.

You are correct, few of this handful of students that switch out are at-risk students.

AND, at the same time, the proportion of at-risk students who are applying for the 9th grade slots that have opened is larger than at the middle school level. So non-at-risk students who leave are more likely be replaced with at-risk students in the high school.

Still small actual numbers, but the percentage does jump.

You can see it laid out in this presentation about the at-risk lottery preference that was given to parents over the summer:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/21-0629-At-Risk-Preference-PPT-for-parents-updated.pdf

You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else. They go in search of far more robust instruction in STEM subjects, more serious instruction in modern languages, access to college classes at GW via Walls, higher-performing peers and better teaching. Wall's average SAT scores are more than 100 points higher than Latin's in math and English. Latin's staunch refusal to track academically for humanities subjects, so-so science and math instruction, and half-baked teaching in modern languages hold back top performers, motivating some of the families of the strongest students to leave. Some of the brightest low SES minority students find scholarships at expensive privates. This is just as true in 2021 as it was 10 years ago. If BASIS allowed 9th graders to test in, Latin 8th graders would go there, where some 9th graders have already taken AP exams and scored high, something that almost never happens at Latin. Let's not bury our heads in the sand where the appeal of studying alongside high school classmates who accrued the benefit of more challenging MS academics than Latin offers is concerned. I'm not clear on why Latin bothers to track for MS math, when the high school STEM offerings waiting at the other end are decidedly lackluster. Where is the Physics C or the BC Calculus at Latin? For that matter, where is the AP Spanish Lit? To be clear, Latin is an excellent school for the academically average and above average who are humanities-minded, not the rest of its students.

“ You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else.”

Your language gives you away as being hyperbolic and presumptuous. Exodus. Ha. 8-10 kids who, more than anything, want different boys and girls to date and maybe better access to drugs on campus. You know nothing of why these handful of students decide to leave. Jeez.

You are all nuts. Its very normal for churn between 8th and 9th at any school. Look at virtually any middle school in DC- private or public. Kids figure out what they are really interested in or have talents in or they want simply some change. For many they feel there may be a better "fit" elsewhere but it doesn't mean where they are for middle isn't good enough. "Better access to drugs on campus?" You'll need to troll harder.

Yes, parents are indeed nuts to bail on Latin before HS because their children have been earning straight As for years without breaking a sweat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes- you are right. I will just mention that mathematically with such a small population, small raw numbers make a big percentage change.

Perhaps 8-12 students out of 70 have historically left Latin after 8th grade to head to another high school. Often Walls and often private and often because of sports or other extracurricular pursuits that are more robust elsewhere.

You are correct, few of this handful of students that switch out are at-risk students.

AND, at the same time, the proportion of at-risk students who are applying for the 9th grade slots that have opened is larger than at the middle school level. So non-at-risk students who leave are more likely be replaced with at-risk students in the high school.

Still small actual numbers, but the percentage does jump.

You can see it laid out in this presentation about the at-risk lottery preference that was given to parents over the summer:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/21-0629-At-Risk-Preference-PPT-for-parents-updated.pdf

You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else. They go in search of far more robust instruction in STEM subjects, more serious instruction in modern languages, access to college classes at GW via Walls, higher-performing peers and better teaching. Wall's average SAT scores are more than 100 points higher than Latin's in math and English. Latin's staunch refusal to track academically for humanities subjects, so-so science and math instruction, and half-baked teaching in modern languages hold back top performers, motivating some of the families of the strongest students to leave. Some of the brightest low SES minority students find scholarships at expensive privates. This is just as true in 2021 as it was 10 years ago. If BASIS allowed 9th graders to test in, Latin 8th graders would go there, where some 9th graders have already taken AP exams and scored high, something that almost never happens at Latin. Let's not bury our heads in the sand where the appeal of studying alongside high school classmates who accrued the benefit of more challenging MS academics than Latin offers is concerned. I'm not clear on why Latin bothers to track for MS math, when the high school STEM offerings waiting at the other end are decidedly lackluster. Where is the Physics C or the BC Calculus at Latin? For that matter, where is the AP Spanish Lit? To be clear, Latin is an excellent school for the academically average and above average who are humanities-minded, not the rest of its students.

“ You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else.”

Your language gives you away as being hyperbolic and presumptuous. Exodus. Ha. 8-10 kids who, more than anything, want different boys and girls to date and maybe better access to drugs on campus. You know nothing of why these handful of students decide to leave. Jeez.

You are all nuts. Its very normal for churn between 8th and 9th at any school. Look at virtually any middle school in DC- private or public. Kids figure out what they are really interested in or have talents in or they want simply some change. For many they feel there may be a better "fit" elsewhere but it doesn't mean where they are for middle isn't good enough. "Better access to drugs on campus?" You'll need to troll harder.

Yes, parents are indeed nuts to bail on Latin before HS because their children have been earning straight As for years without breaking a sweat.

Your "burn" doesn't even make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes- you are right. I will just mention that mathematically with such a small population, small raw numbers make a big percentage change.

Perhaps 8-12 students out of 70 have historically left Latin after 8th grade to head to another high school. Often Walls and often private and often because of sports or other extracurricular pursuits that are more robust elsewhere.

You are correct, few of this handful of students that switch out are at-risk students.

AND, at the same time, the proportion of at-risk students who are applying for the 9th grade slots that have opened is larger than at the middle school level. So non-at-risk students who leave are more likely be replaced with at-risk students in the high school.

Still small actual numbers, but the percentage does jump.

You can see it laid out in this presentation about the at-risk lottery preference that was given to parents over the summer:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/21-0629-At-Risk-Preference-PPT-for-parents-updated.pdf

You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else. They go in search of far more robust instruction in STEM subjects, more serious instruction in modern languages, access to college classes at GW via Walls, higher-performing peers and better teaching. Wall's average SAT scores are more than 100 points higher than Latin's in math and English. Latin's staunch refusal to track academically for humanities subjects, so-so science and math instruction, and half-baked teaching in modern languages hold back top performers, motivating some of the families of the strongest students to leave. Some of the brightest low SES minority students find scholarships at expensive privates. This is just as true in 2021 as it was 10 years ago. If BASIS allowed 9th graders to test in, Latin 8th graders would go there, where some 9th graders have already taken AP exams and scored high, something that almost never happens at Latin. Let's not bury our heads in the sand where the appeal of studying alongside high school classmates who accrued the benefit of more challenging MS academics than Latin offers is concerned. I'm not clear on why Latin bothers to track for MS math, when the high school STEM offerings waiting at the other end are decidedly lackluster. Where is the Physics C or the BC Calculus at Latin? For that matter, where is the AP Spanish Lit? To be clear, Latin is an excellent school for the academically average and above average who are humanities-minded, not the rest of its students.

“ You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else.”

Your language gives you away as being hyperbolic and presumptuous. Exodus. Ha. 8-10 kids who, more than anything, want different boys and girls to date and maybe better access to drugs on campus. You know nothing of why these handful of students decide to leave. Jeez.

You are all nuts. Its very normal for churn between 8th and 9th at any school. Look at virtually any middle school in DC- private or public. Kids figure out what they are really interested in or have talents in or they want simply some change. For many they feel there may be a better "fit" elsewhere but it doesn't mean where they are for middle isn't good enough. "Better access to drugs on campus?" You'll need to troll harder.

Yes, parents are indeed nuts to bail on Latin before HS because their children have been earning straight As for years without breaking a sweat.

No, you're nuts to think that this is something special about Latin. Kids leave middle school all over the city for different high schools--tougher academics, better sports, smaller school, bigger school, extracurriculars, etc. The traditional path for upper middle class kids in DC was to leave for private or parochial school in 6th or 9th grade. The fact that so many now stay in DCPS or charter schools at all is quite surprising for this DC native.

[Anonymous]

Not the PP you're responding to but I certainly get it.

Believe it or not, there are Latin middle school families who want a more challenging curriculum and higher-performing peers for high school. As are much too easy to come by at Latin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP you're responding to but I certainly get it.

Believe it or not, there are Latin middle school families who want a more challenging curriculum and higher-performing peers for high school. As are much too easy to come by at Latin.

Cool story Bro. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington Latins "model", Boston Latin, is a test in school. Since WL is not, there has been a tension in its mission/vision since it's inception. This is not new. It's the plus and minus of being far more equitable (in one way - lottery based with weighted preferences that are not academic) than BL. If you disagree with that, you would need to change its structure to test in - like a Walls, Ellington, Banneker, TJ or Boston Latin. It is what it is.

I don't agree. This view of how Washington Latin must work--shared by the program's leadership-- is a cop out. Latin's leadership and teachers could offer far more rigor to the most advanced students. At BASIS, another DC charter school, seniors can't graduate unless they've passed at least half a dozen AP exams.

For example, admins won't permit 5th and 6th graders to take languages other than Latin, although a good many come in from DC public school language immersion programs for Spanish, Chinese and French. Some of the UMC parents of language immersion graduates team up to hire pricey tutors to help kids retain language skills, meaning that it's mostly the former low SES language immersion students at Latin who lose their skills. This policy could easily be changed. Also, math is tracked at Latin in middle school, but not humanities subjects, another policy that could be changed. Social promotion could also be jettisoned to help support more advanced academics.

Latin requires significantly more credits than other DC High Schools in order to graduate. Administration has purposefully chosen which AP classes are offered based on their academic/intellectual value. A teacher not bound by the AP US History course curriculum, for example, has much more leeway to create a meaningful course that's more than a collection of facts to be tested. A thing about Latin is you have to trust the administration and teachers to be professionals and have student's best interests in mind; with the mission and vision-statement always at the forefront. So far, they have earned my trust--more than the AP momey-making machine has!

Fabulous in theory, not so hot in practice. It's useful for kids to have a clutch of high AP scores under their belts when applying to colleges, no matter what sort of schools they attended.

Just so you know: college admissions offices receive what's know as a school "snap shot" from the high school guidance department with every application. This snapshot lays out the courses available in the school and ranks them according to difficulty. The most difficult course at Latin is not an AP course. College admissions staff want students who have taken the most difficult classes available at their school and will compare this snapshot with the students' transcripts. A raft of AP's with high scores is not an entrance ticket by any means--money: tutors and a good zip code can buy all that. Have you been through this before?

I work in college admissions and don't agree.

Which course at Latin is tougher than...Physics 2, Physics C Mechanics, Physics C Electricity and Magnetism, BC Calculus, AP languages?

Interviewing applicants for your alma mater does not count as working in admissions.

I concur. I'm an admissions officer at a university in the District. My children attend a DC public charter school.

Cool. And as an admissions officer, you are telling me that you consider the raw number of APs a student takeswithout considering the profile that comes from the high school? Are you telling me a student applying to your school gets dinged in admissions if their school doesn't offer your list: Physics 2, Physics C Mechanics, Physics C Electricity and Magnetism, BC Calculus?

I am not the PP, but I think he thought you were saying that Latin had harder classes than *any* AP class. So he was asking what the magic class was that was harder than the above classes. If Latin doesn't offer any of the above classes, though, then there's obviously a real problem with its difficulty in STEM. Does Latin seriously not offer any of those classes?

And, also, FWIW, a kid will absolutely get credit for taking the hardest courses his school offers AND will absolutely get dinged if the school doesn't have hard enough classes. There's a reason that most schools get no one into HYPSMC ever and it's not that they have never had a kid capable of it... It's that they don't adequately prepare their kids for admissions. One way they don't do that is that they don't have hard enough courses.

That's not a problem at Latin--hard enough classes, and good record of admissions to HYPSMC . I had to look that up

Not true. For example, none admitted to HYPSMC from Class of 2020.

These are enrollments--not acceptances. Years 2016 - 2019. 3 years of enrollments. one at Harvard, one at Stanford, more than one at Yale. An open enrollment high school. These enrollments are from around 210 students.

College Enrollment – Classes of 2016-2019
(Bold lettering indicates more than one student enrolled.)
• Alabama A&M University
• Alfred University, NY
• Allegheny College, PA
• Baldwin Wallace Univ., OH
• Comm. Coll. of Baltimore
County, MD
• Barry University, FL
• Bates College, ME
• Beacon College, FL
• Bennett Career Institute, DC
• Berklee Coll. of Music, MA
• Bowdoin College, ME
• Bowie State Univ., MD
• Brandeis University, MA
• CUNY Brooklyn Coll., NY
• Bucknell University, PA
• Carleton College, MN
• Charleston Southern Univ.,
SC
• Clark Atlanta Univ., GA
• College of William & Mary,
VA
• Colorado College
• Cornell University, NY
• Covenant College, GA
• Dartmouth College, NH
• Davidson College, NC
• Delaware State University
• Drexel University, PA
• Eckerd College, FL
• Fayetteville State Univ., NC
• Fisk University, TN
• Florida A&M University
• Franklin & Marshall
College, PA
• George Mason Univ., VA
• Goucher College, MD
• Grambling State Univ., LA
• Guilford College, NC
• Hamilton College, NY
• Hampden-Sydney Coll., VA
• Hampton University, VA
• Harcum College, PA
• Harrisburg Univ. of Science &
Technology, PA
• Harvard College, MA
• Haverford College, PA
• Hood College, MD
• Howard University, DC
• Itasca Comm. College, MN
• Ithaca College, NY
• Johnson & Wales Univ., FL
• Johnson & Wales Univ., RI
• Johnson C. Smith Univ., NC
• Kean University, NJ
• La Salle University, PA
• Laboratory Institute of
Merchandising, NY
• Lawrence University, WI
• Lehigh University, PA
• Lewis & Clark College, OR
• Liberty University, VA
• Louisiana State University
• Loyola Univ. New Orleans
• Macalester College, MN
• Marshall University, WV
• Marymount University, VA
• McDaniel College, MD
• McGill University, CN
• Messiah College, PA
• Miami Dade College, FL
• Miami University, OH
• Michigan State University
• Middlebury College, VT
• Montgomery College, MD
• Morehouse College, GA
• Morgan State Univ., MD
• NYU-Abu Dhabi
• NYU-Shanghai
• Norfolk State Univ., VA
• NC A&T State Univ.
• NC Central Univ.
• NC State Univ.
• Northeastern Univ., MA
• Northern VA Comm. Coll.
• Northwestern University, IL
• Oberlin College, OH
• Oglethorpe University, GA
• Old Dominion Univ., VA
• Pace University, NY
• Pennsylvania State Univ.
• Pomona College, CA
• Prince George’s CC, MD
• Rochester Institute of
Technology, NY
• Saint Louis University, MO
• Savannah College of Art &
Design, GA
• Shepherd University, WV
• Southern IL. Univ.-
Carbondale
• Southern New Hampshire
Univ.
• Spelman College, GA
• St. John’s College, MD
• St. John’s University, NY
• Stanford University, CA
• SUNY Cortland, NY
• Swarthmore College, PA
• Syracuse University, NY
• Temple University, PA
• Temple University Japan
• The American Univ. of Rome
• The Catholic University of
America, DC
• The College of New Jersey
• The George Washington
University, DC
• The Lincoln Univ. of PA
• Trinity University in
Washington, D.C.
• Tufts University, MA
• Union College, NY
• US Air Force Academy
• US Coast Guard
• US Navy
• University of Chicago, IL
• Univ. of Colorado-Boulder
• Univ. of the District of
Columbia
• Comm. College at UDC
• University of Hartford, CT
• University of Kansas
• Univ. of MD-College Park
• University of New
Hampshire-Durham
• UNC-Chapel Hill
• UNC-Greensboro
• Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA
• Univ. of Rochester, NY
• Univ. of San Francisco, CA
• Univ. of Texas at Austin
• University of Vermont
• University of Washington
• Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
• Virginia Tech
• Virginia State University
• Virginia Wesleyan College
• Washington College, MD
• Wesleyan University, CT
• West Virginia University
• Western Governors Univ., UT
• Winston-Salem State Univ.,
NC
• Wittenberg University, OH
• Xavier Univ. of Louisiana
• Yale University, CT
• York College of Pennsylvania

Nice try.

If you look at the stats for 2012-2020, you end up with 4 HYPSMC enrollments for 9 years and about 800 students (the school hasn’t released the Class of 2021 enrollments).

Sources:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Washington-Latin-College-Counseling-2018-combo.pdf

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/WLPCS-School-Profile-2019-2020.pdf

https://latinpcs.org/counseling-college-more/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP you're responding to but I certainly get it.

Believe it or not, there are Latin middle school families who want a more challenging curriculum and higher-performing peers for high school. As are much too easy to come by at Latin.

And there are likely Latin middle school families who leave for something else altogether- more competitive sports, better SPED services, etc. You have made your point in multiple, passive aggressive posts that you think Latin is not rigorous enough. Fine. Move on.

--not a Latin parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes- you are right. I will just mention that mathematically with such a small population, small raw numbers make a big percentage change.

Perhaps 8-12 students out of 70 have historically left Latin after 8th grade to head to another high school. Often Walls and often private and often because of sports or other extracurricular pursuits that are more robust elsewhere.

You are correct, few of this handful of students that switch out are at-risk students.

AND, at the same time, the proportion of at-risk students who are applying for the 9th grade slots that have opened is larger than at the middle school level. So non-at-risk students who leave are more likely be replaced with at-risk students in the high school.

Still small actual numbers, but the percentage does jump.

You can see it laid out in this presentation about the at-risk lottery preference that was given to parents over the summer:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/21-0629-At-Risk-Preference-PPT-for-parents-updated.pdf

You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else. They go in search of far more robust instruction in STEM subjects, more serious instruction in modern languages, access to college classes at GW via Walls, higher-performing peers and better teaching. Wall's average SAT scores are more than 100 points higher than Latin's in math and English. Latin's staunch refusal to track academically for humanities subjects, so-so science and math instruction, and half-baked teaching in modern languages hold back top performers, motivating some of the families of the strongest students to leave. Some of the brightest low SES minority students find scholarships at expensive privates. This is just as true in 2021 as it was 10 years ago. If BASIS allowed 9th graders to test in, Latin 8th graders would go there, where some 9th graders have already taken AP exams and scored high, something that almost never happens at Latin. Let's not bury our heads in the sand where the appeal of studying alongside high school classmates who accrued the benefit of more challenging MS academics than Latin offers is concerned. I'm not clear on why Latin bothers to track for MS math, when the high school STEM offerings waiting at the other end are decidedly lackluster. Where is the Physics C or the BC Calculus at Latin? For that matter, where is the AP Spanish Lit? To be clear, Latin is an excellent school for the academically average and above average who are humanities-minded, not the rest of its students.

“ You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else.”

Your language gives you away as being hyperbolic and presumptuous. Exodus. Ha. 8-10 kids who, more than anything, want different boys and girls to date and maybe better access to drugs on campus. You know nothing of why these handful of students decide to leave. Jeez.

You are all nuts. Its very normal for churn between 8th and 9th at any school. Look at virtually any middle school in DC- private or public. Kids figure out what they are really interested in or have talents in or they want simply some change. For many they feel there may be a better "fit" elsewhere but it doesn't mean where they are for middle isn't good enough. "Better access to drugs on campus?" You'll need to troll harder.

Yes, parents are indeed nuts to bail on Latin before HS because their children have been earning straight As for years without breaking a sweat.

No, you're nuts to think that this is something special about Latin. Kids leave middle school all over the city for different high schools--tougher academics, better sports, smaller school, bigger school, extracurriculars, etc. The traditional path for upper middle class kids in DC was to leave for private or parochial school in 6th or 9th grade. The fact that so many now stay in DCPS or charter schools at all is quite surprising for this DC native.

Do have children at Latin? Granted, the school beats our dismal neighborhood schools. Good point. But it's not that great. It has the students to be great without the leadership.

Are we allowed to be surprised that a culture of social promotion and a resistance to ability grouping still spoil the party for too many in our highest-performing DC public schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington Latins "model", Boston Latin, is a test in school. Since WL is not, there has been a tension in its mission/vision since it's inception. This is not new. It's the plus and minus of being far more equitable (in one way - lottery based with weighted preferences that are not academic) than BL. If you disagree with that, you would need to change its structure to test in - like a Walls, Ellington, Banneker, TJ or Boston Latin. It is what it is.

I don't agree. This view of how Washington Latin must work--shared by the program's leadership-- is a cop out. Latin's leadership and teachers could offer far more rigor to the most advanced students. At BASIS, another DC charter school, seniors can't graduate unless they've passed at least half a dozen AP exams.

For example, admins won't permit 5th and 6th graders to take languages other than Latin, although a good many come in from DC public school language immersion programs for Spanish, Chinese and French. Some of the UMC parents of language immersion graduates team up to hire pricey tutors to help kids retain language skills, meaning that it's mostly the former low SES language immersion students at Latin who lose their skills. This policy could easily be changed. Also, math is tracked at Latin in middle school, but not humanities subjects, another policy that could be changed. Social promotion could also be jettisoned to help support more advanced academics.

Latin requires significantly more credits than other DC High Schools in order to graduate. Administration has purposefully chosen which AP classes are offered based on their academic/intellectual value. A teacher not bound by the AP US History course curriculum, for example, has much more leeway to create a meaningful course that's more than a collection of facts to be tested. A thing about Latin is you have to trust the administration and teachers to be professionals and have student's best interests in mind; with the mission and vision-statement always at the forefront. So far, they have earned my trust--more than the AP momey-making machine has!

Fabulous in theory, not so hot in practice. It's useful for kids to have a clutch of high AP scores under their belts when applying to colleges, no matter what sort of schools they attended.

Just so you know: college admissions offices receive what's know as a school "snap shot" from the high school guidance department with every application. This snapshot lays out the courses available in the school and ranks them according to difficulty. The most difficult course at Latin is not an AP course. College admissions staff want students who have taken the most difficult classes available at their school and will compare this snapshot with the students' transcripts. A raft of AP's with high scores is not an entrance ticket by any means--money: tutors and a good zip code can buy all that. Have you been through this before?

I work in college admissions and don't agree.

Which course at Latin is tougher than...Physics 2, Physics C Mechanics, Physics C Electricity and Magnetism, BC Calculus, AP languages?

Interviewing applicants for your alma mater does not count as working in admissions.

I concur. I'm an admissions officer at a university in the District. My children attend a DC public charter school.

Cool. And as an admissions officer, you are telling me that you consider the raw number of APs a student takeswithout considering the profile that comes from the high school? Are you telling me a student applying to your school gets dinged in admissions if their school doesn't offer your list: Physics 2, Physics C Mechanics, Physics C Electricity and Magnetism, BC Calculus?

I am not the PP, but I think he thought you were saying that Latin had harder classes than *any* AP class. So he was asking what the magic class was that was harder than the above classes. If Latin doesn't offer any of the above classes, though, then there's obviously a real problem with its difficulty in STEM. Does Latin seriously not offer any of those classes?

And, also, FWIW, a kid will absolutely get credit for taking the hardest courses his school offers AND will absolutely get dinged if the school doesn't have hard enough classes. There's a reason that most schools get no one into HYPSMC ever and it's not that they have never had a kid capable of it... It's that they don't adequately prepare their kids for admissions. One way they don't do that is that they don't have hard enough courses.

That's not a problem at Latin--hard enough classes, and good record of admissions to HYPSMC . I had to look that up

Not true. For example, none admitted to HYPSMC from Class of 2020.

These are enrollments--not acceptances. Years 2016 - 2019. 3 years of enrollments. one at Harvard, one at Stanford, more than one at Yale. An open enrollment high school. These enrollments are from around 210 students.

College Enrollment – Classes of 2016-2019
(Bold lettering indicates more than one student enrolled.)
• Alabama A&M University
• Alfred University, NY
• Allegheny College, PA
• Baldwin Wallace Univ., OH
• Comm. Coll. of Baltimore
County, MD
• Barry University, FL
• Bates College, ME
• Beacon College, FL
• Bennett Career Institute, DC
• Berklee Coll. of Music, MA
• Bowdoin College, ME
• Bowie State Univ., MD
• Brandeis University, MA
• CUNY Brooklyn Coll., NY
• Bucknell University, PA
• Carleton College, MN
• Charleston Southern Univ.,
SC
• Clark Atlanta Univ., GA
• College of William & Mary,
VA
• Colorado College
• Cornell University, NY
• Covenant College, GA
• Dartmouth College, NH
• Davidson College, NC
• Delaware State University
• Drexel University, PA
• Eckerd College, FL
• Fayetteville State Univ., NC
• Fisk University, TN
• Florida A&M University
• Franklin & Marshall
College, PA
• George Mason Univ., VA
• Goucher College, MD
• Grambling State Univ., LA
• Guilford College, NC
• Hamilton College, NY
• Hampden-Sydney Coll., VA
• Hampton University, VA
• Harcum College, PA
• Harrisburg Univ. of Science &
Technology, PA
• Harvard College, MA
• Haverford College, PA
• Hood College, MD
• Howard University, DC
• Itasca Comm. College, MN
• Ithaca College, NY
• Johnson & Wales Univ., FL
• Johnson & Wales Univ., RI
• Johnson C. Smith Univ., NC
• Kean University, NJ
• La Salle University, PA
• Laboratory Institute of
Merchandising, NY
• Lawrence University, WI
• Lehigh University, PA
• Lewis & Clark College, OR
• Liberty University, VA
• Louisiana State University
• Loyola Univ. New Orleans
• Macalester College, MN
• Marshall University, WV
• Marymount University, VA
• McDaniel College, MD
• McGill University, CN
• Messiah College, PA
• Miami Dade College, FL
• Miami University, OH
• Michigan State University
• Middlebury College, VT
• Montgomery College, MD
• Morehouse College, GA
• Morgan State Univ., MD
• NYU-Abu Dhabi
• NYU-Shanghai
• Norfolk State Univ., VA
• NC A&T State Univ.
• NC Central Univ.
• NC State Univ.
• Northeastern Univ., MA
• Northern VA Comm. Coll.
• Northwestern University, IL
• Oberlin College, OH
• Oglethorpe University, GA
• Old Dominion Univ., VA
• Pace University, NY
• Pennsylvania State Univ.
• Pomona College, CA
• Prince George’s CC, MD
• Rochester Institute of
Technology, NY
• Saint Louis University, MO
• Savannah College of Art &
Design, GA
• Shepherd University, WV
• Southern IL. Univ.-
Carbondale
• Southern New Hampshire
Univ.
• Spelman College, GA
• St. John’s College, MD
• St. John’s University, NY
• Stanford University, CA
• SUNY Cortland, NY
• Swarthmore College, PA
• Syracuse University, NY
• Temple University, PA
• Temple University Japan
• The American Univ. of Rome
• The Catholic University of
America, DC
• The College of New Jersey
• The George Washington
University, DC
• The Lincoln Univ. of PA
• Trinity University in
Washington, D.C.
• Tufts University, MA
• Union College, NY
• US Air Force Academy
• US Coast Guard
• US Navy
• University of Chicago, IL
• Univ. of Colorado-Boulder
• Univ. of the District of
Columbia
• Comm. College at UDC
• University of Hartford, CT
• University of Kansas
• Univ. of MD-College Park
• University of New
Hampshire-Durham
• UNC-Chapel Hill
• UNC-Greensboro
• Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA
• Univ. of Rochester, NY
• Univ. of San Francisco, CA
• Univ. of Texas at Austin
• University of Vermont
• University of Washington
• Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
• Virginia Tech
• Virginia State University
• Virginia Wesleyan College
• Washington College, MD
• Wesleyan University, CT
• West Virginia University
• Western Governors Univ., UT
• Winston-Salem State Univ.,
NC
• Wittenberg University, OH
• Xavier Univ. of Louisiana
• Yale University, CT
• York College of Pennsylvania

Nice try.

If you look at the stats for 2012-2020, you end up with 4 HYPSMC enrollments for 9 years and about 800 students (the school hasn’t released the Class of 2021 enrollments).

Sources:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Washington-Latin-College-Counseling-2018-combo.pdf

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/WLPCS-School-Profile-2019-2020.pdf

https://latinpcs.org/counseling-college-more/

Nice try, what? Everything pp said was true. When you limit yourself to six schools, these numbers of enrollments are damn good. When you expand to schools beyond those six and include, say: Cornell, Pomona, Brown, Dartmouth, Haverford, University of ChicagoHoward, Middlebury, Spellman, U.S. Air force Academy, Wesleyan....it's really good. These are enrollments. Not acceptances. And those lists don't include students accepted to HYPSMC who couldn't enroll for financial reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes- you are right. I will just mention that mathematically with such a small population, small raw numbers make a big percentage change.

Perhaps 8-12 students out of 70 have historically left Latin after 8th grade to head to another high school. Often Walls and often private and often because of sports or other extracurricular pursuits that are more robust elsewhere.

You are correct, few of this handful of students that switch out are at-risk students.

AND, at the same time, the proportion of at-risk students who are applying for the 9th grade slots that have opened is larger than at the middle school level. So non-at-risk students who leave are more likely be replaced with at-risk students in the high school.

Still small actual numbers, but the percentage does jump.

You can see it laid out in this presentation about the at-risk lottery preference that was given to parents over the summer:

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/21-0629-At-Risk-Preference-PPT-for-parents-updated.pdf

You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else. They go in search of far more robust instruction in STEM subjects, more serious instruction in modern languages, access to college classes at GW via Walls, higher-performing peers and better teaching. Wall's average SAT scores are more than 100 points higher than Latin's in math and English. Latin's staunch refusal to track academically for humanities subjects, so-so science and math instruction, and half-baked teaching in modern languages hold back top performers, motivating some of the families of the strongest students to leave. Some of the brightest low SES minority students find scholarships at expensive privates. This is just as true in 2021 as it was 10 years ago. If BASIS allowed 9th graders to test in, Latin 8th graders would go there, where some 9th graders have already taken AP exams and scored high, something that almost never happens at Latin. Let's not bury our heads in the sand where the appeal of studying alongside high school classmates who accrued the benefit of more challenging MS academics than Latin offers is concerned. I'm not clear on why Latin bothers to track for MS math, when the high school STEM offerings waiting at the other end are decidedly lackluster. Where is the Physics C or the BC Calculus at Latin? For that matter, where is the AP Spanish Lit? To be clear, Latin is an excellent school for the academically average and above average who are humanities-minded, not the rest of its students.

“ You're sugarcoating the reasons driving the exodus. Latin's top 8th grade performers commonly leave in pursuit of greener pastures intellectually and academically as much as anything else.”

Your language gives you away as being hyperbolic and presumptuous. Exodus. Ha. 8-10 kids who, more than anything, want different boys and girls to date and maybe better access to drugs on campus. You know nothing of why these handful of students decide to leave. Jeez.

You are all nuts. Its very normal for churn between 8th and 9th at any school. Look at virtually any middle school in DC- private or public. Kids figure out what they are really interested in or have talents in or they want simply some change. For many they feel there may be a better "fit" elsewhere but it doesn't mean where they are for middle isn't good enough. "Better access to drugs on campus?" You'll need to troll harder.

Yes, parents are indeed nuts to bail on Latin before HS because their children have been earning straight As for years without breaking a sweat.

No, you're nuts to think that this is something special about Latin. Kids leave middle school all over the city for different high schools--tougher academics, better sports, smaller school, bigger school, extracurriculars, etc. The traditional path for upper middle class kids in DC was to leave for private or parochial school in 6th or 9th grade. The fact that so many now stay in DCPS or charter schools at all is quite surprising for this DC native.

Do have children at Latin? Granted, the school beats our dismal neighborhood schools. Good point. But it's not that great. It has the students to be great without the leadership.

Are we allowed to be surprised that a culture of social promotion and a resistance to ability grouping still spoil the party for too many in our highest-performing DC public schools?

Like I said: strivers gonna strive. You aren't the first and won't be the last. We are sticking with Latin for our A student. He's happy, has a lot of friends, is an excellent test-taker and a very good writer. I love the curriculum and find it to be very well thought out. The mentoring he's received at Latin has really helped him develop into a confident, great kid. We are not URM and I don't think my kid is interested in my alma mater, so he's not likely to go to an Ivy no matter where he went to HS. Others have different goals for their kids--good luck to your family!

[Anonymous]

This is what I don’t understand about these posters. Not good enough for your kid? Move on. I don’t get the need to label Latin as “not that great” and prove it point by point despite lots of parents telling you they think it’s great. Why can’t these posters move on? Why do they feel they need to force all to agree with them.

I *think* it has to do with a larger complaint about public schooling and education policy in the district and the USA. Latin is simply a convenient target. Or else I’m wrong and it’s really just a fragile sense of self and a need to be right and feel superior.

[Anonymous]

Latin isn't a private school; our tax dollars pay for it. You move on if you want a pure, unadulterated booster thread lauding world-class middle and high school rigor at Latin.

Start your own thread, please. Suggestion - police your thread aggressively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what I don’t understand about these posters. Not good enough for your kid? Move on. I don’t get the need to label Latin as “not that great” and prove it point by point despite lots of parents telling you they think it’s great. Why can’t these posters move on? Why do they feel they need to force all to agree with them.

I *think* it has to do with a larger complaint about public schooling and education policy in the district and the USA. Latin is simply a convenient target. Or else I’m wrong and it’s really just a fragile sense of self and a need to be right and feel superior.

I think a lot of time posters like this actually leave the school for other reasons, but then want to burn the whole place down. Or the school wouldn't bend to their will of providing advanced Spanish in 5th grade or whatever and they are just MAD.

[Anonymous]

Likewise. I have a smart student at Latin who absolutely thrives in small classes with teachers who know him well and have seen him develop as a person and a student over the last 5-6 years. He’s a straight A student and works hard for those grades. He’s being challenged every day and becoming an excellent writer. His critical thinking skills and ability to see multiple sides of an issue have grown exponentially. His knowledge of world history, ancient history and languages ( Latin and Arabic ) are far beyond anything I knew in high school. We are very happy and won’t be going anywhere.

FWIW: we also have an older student who is a Latin alum, also had straight As and was plenty challenged and is now doing extremely well at a highly selective colleges ( acceptance rate of %13).

I’m glad Latin is expanding and will be able to offer this kind of education to a larger number of DC public school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latin isn't a private school; our tax dollars pay for it. You move on if you want a pure, unadulterated booster thread lauding world-class middle and high school rigor at Latin.

Start your own thread, please. Suggestion - police your thread aggressively.

Somehow when this poster sees someone say “we are very happy and satisfied with Latin and impressed by the teaching and learning we see there” , they believe it comes from a booster touting “world-class rigor”. This person is not tethered to reality but is floating in their own world of disappointment and rancor.