Got a Smart Kid Applying for College Anytime Soon? Read this NYT Article (if you haven't yet)

[Anonymous]

Good article (April 8, 2014) that captures some of the major changes in college admissions that has led to Stanford having a 5% admissions rate and other schools being in the same neighborhood:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/us/led-by-stanfords-5-top-colleges-acceptance-rates-hit-new-lows.html?action=click&contentCollection=Baseball&module=MostEmailed&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article

A few points worth highlighting:

--As the article points out, "a generation ago" (when many DCUM readers applied for college), it was rate for even the selective schools to have admission rates below 20%;
--The "pool of high-achieving applicants" applying to the most selective colleges "continues to grow," fueled by applicants from overseas;
--In 1990, only about 10% of students applied to 7 or more colleges; as of 2011 the percentage of students applying to 7 or more colleges had gone up to 30%;
--More and more schools accept the Common App (315 in 2007; 517 today), which in turn makes it easier for more students to apply;
--Schools' acceptance rates have plummeted; for example, Chicago went from 40% to 8% in a generation.

None of this is really "news" -- people even on DCUM have made these points -- but the article does a nice job of pulling all of the information together and adding some color and additional analysis. Parents fixated on Ivies/Stanford really need to be very realistic about the college landscape early on and, hopefully, expand their own horizons and encourage their kids to do the same and not freak out if the child isn't in the 6% admitted to Harvard or Yale or the 8% admitted to Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for posting this!

[Anonymous]

Thank you for posting this, as I am sure that many DCUM readers will appreciate it.

However, for me personally, I try not to worry about those things which I cannot control.

[Anonymous]

There isn't anything new here except more applications, lower admit rates, more schools in the single digit zone. Not a great article. No analysis of legacy trends or foreign student applications and admits.

[Anonymous]

I'd be curious about whether it's truly gotten any harder to get into college, or if these lower percentages mostly just reflect students firing off more applications. If the average student launches 8 applications rather than 4, that has the effect of creating more total apps and lowering the admit rates for colleges. But ultimately, those students can each attend only one college.

I get that there are some foreign applicants, but is the number big enough to make a statistical difference in the total number of applicants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There isn't anything new here except more applications, lower admit rates, more schools in the single digit zone. Not a great article. No analysis of legacy trends or foreign student applications and admits.

It's news to plenty of people. For example, someone in their 40s might have read that Yale has a 6% acceptance rate but not have realized that the rate was 20%+ when they applied in the 1980s. The historical overview, even in summary fashion, is helpful to put this issue in perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd be curious about whether it's truly gotten any harder to get into college, or if these lower percentages mostly just reflect students firing off more applications. If the average student launches 8 applications rather than 4, that has the effect of creating more total apps and lowering the admit rates for colleges. But ultimately, those students can each attend only one college.

I get that there are some foreign applicants, but is the number big enough to make a statistical difference in the total number of applicants?

Harvard and Yale now take 10% foreign undergrads when it used to be less than 1% in the 1980s. Some other selective colleges have an even higher percentage of foreign students. Given that the U.S. population also has expanded since the 1980s, but the Ivies have added only a small number of additional spots for students, the phenomenon of foreign applications has absolutely had an effect on selectivity.

[Anonymous]

True, it's not news for anyone who's been reading about college admission trends on a regular basis over the eyears, which would be me. Articles like this appear every year, a rite of spring! This front-page coverage is adding fuel to the fire.

One thing I didn't appreciate until recently is how legacy rates have held steady at many Ivies. Google that and you might be stunned. I was.

[Anonymous]

Another aspect: Foreign students are often wealthy and pay full tuition. Schools know that. Admissions for foreign students are not need blind.

It's troubling ... why should tax exempt institutions short-change the offspring of taxpaying citizens? (I probably sound like a lunatic right winger. I'm the opposite of that!)

21:01 Everyone I know who went to highly selective schools in the 80s knows the acceptance rates were might higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't anything new here except more applications, lower admit rates, more schools in the single digit zone. Not a great article. No analysis of legacy trends or foreign student applications and admits.

It's news to plenty of people. For example, someone in their 40s might have read that Yale has a 6% acceptance rate but not have realized that the rate was 20%+ when they applied in the 1980s. The historical overview, even in summary fashion, is helpful to put this issue in perspective.

Right. There are plenty of Ivy grads who might not make the cut today, but are wholly unaware of how the odds have changed over a generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't anything new here except more applications, lower admit rates, more schools in the single digit zone. Not a great article. No analysis of legacy trends or foreign student applications and admits.

It's news to plenty of people. For example, someone in their 40s might have read that Yale has a 6% acceptance rate but not have realized that the rate was 20%+ when they applied in the 1980s. The historical overview, even in summary fashion, is helpful to put this issue in perspective.

Right. There are plenty of Ivy grads who might not make the cut today, but are wholly unaware of how the odds have changed over a generation.

Ivy grads with kids know how the admissions landscapes have changed. It's always the #1 topic of conversation at every reunion I 've attended for the past 30 yrs. Ivy grads tend to be pretty well informed especially when it comes down to their alma mater and where their kids go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't anything new here except more applications, lower admit rates, more schools in the single digit zone. Not a great article. No analysis of legacy trends or foreign student applications and admits.

It's news to plenty of people. For example, someone in their 40s might have read that Yale has a 6% acceptance rate but not have realized that the rate was 20%+ when they applied in the 1980s. The historical overview, even in summary fashion, is helpful to put this issue in perspective.

Right. There are plenty of Ivy grads who might not make the cut today, but are wholly unaware of how the odds have changed over a generation.

But that really doesnt matter because legacy admission means their offsprings can still get in relatively easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd be curious about whether it's truly gotten any harder to get into college, or if these lower percentages mostly just reflect students firing off more applications. If the average student launches 8 applications rather than 4, that has the effect of creating more total apps and lowering the admit rates for colleges. But ultimately, those students can each attend only one college.

I get that there are some foreign applicants, but is the number big enough to make a statistical difference in the total number of applicants?

Harvard and Yale now take 10% foreign undergrads when it used to be less than 1% in the 1980s. Some other selective colleges have an even higher percentage of foreign students. Given that the U.S. population also has expanded since the 1980s, but the Ivies have added only a small number of additional spots for students, the phenomenon of foreign applications has absolutely had an effect on selectivity.

Great. That might explain it. Source?

[Anonymous]

Yale has good statistics. Int'l students have risen from 3-4% in 1990 to 11% in 2014. But increases the difficulty for other applicants by 7-8%, that's not nearly as big a deal as these articles make it out to be. I really think lots of this "new" selectivity has to do with simply more applications from the same batch of students.
file:///C:/Users/Brent/Desktop/B5_Intl_Student_Enrollment_1987_1999.pdf
http://oir.yale.edu/sites/default/files/FACTSHEET(2013-14).pdf
http://oir.yale.edu/1976-2000-yale-book-numbers

[Anonymous]

I am not sure if I am articulating my question clearly, so please humor me, but if you account for all of the extra "randomly fired off" applications that do not fall within the Ivy's selection profile, then is the selectivity still dramatically different than it was 20 years ago? In the 80's was the applicant pool largely comprised of qualified students? I guess that I am curious about the acceptance rate for applicants that mirror the profile of the current freshman class.