Northam’s “Anti-Asian, Anti-Immigrant” School Initiative

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It continually amazes me how little people understand the idea of folks acting for the common good rather than relentlessly pursuing craven self-interest.

Craven doesn’t mean what you think it means.

No, it does. Folks don't want to admit that what they're advocating for is solely for their own interest, but that's what it is. They pretend that the status quo is good for the community, but in reality it's not, and they know it - they're just trying to protect their privileged access and their very limited and self-serving definition of "merit". It wouldn't be craven if they would be open about it.

Parents absolutely should advocate for their children. no one is going to sacrifice their children's education for the sake of everyone else. your name calling won't change that.

[Anonymous]

When anyone makes the argument that what they want is for the common good whereas their opponents are only acting according to their self interests, I take it to mean they have no cogent argument and are generally full of shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It continually amazes me how little people understand the idea of folks acting for the common good rather than relentlessly pursuing craven self-interest.

Craven doesn’t mean what you think it means.

No, it does. Folks don't want to admit that what they're advocating for is solely for their own interest, but that's what it is. They pretend that the status quo is good for the community, but in reality it's not, and they know it - they're just trying to protect their privileged access and their very limited and self-serving definition of "merit". It wouldn't be craven if they would be open about it.

Craven doesn’t mean that someone is dishonest, as in not admitting why they’re doing something. A person who is craven is a coward. The word craven only refers to a person’s courage of lack of it.

Yes, I'm aware of the usage here. It is intended to convey that exact sentiment. It is cowardly for status-quo advocates to cower behind the word "meritocracy" (which in theory everyone should be in favor of) when what they're really after is their own self-interest.

I chose my words carefully and intentionally. I wouldn't use the word "brazen" because in most cases, they do so behind a cloak of anonymity and are choosing their path because they are fearful of how they'd be perceived if they were honest about wanting to protect their privileged access.

Okay, fair enough, although that wasn’t completely clear in either your original post or your first explanation of your use if the word. I do find this word to be used incorrectly pretty frequently.

As a side note, I agree with you about AAP. It has become a very different program from what GT used to be and it is not providing the services that it was originally meant to.

+1, agree wholeheartedly, and thank you. It is so watered down at this point by relatively mediocre students, so much so that it's unconscionable that certain demographics are left out.

I'd be a lot more okay with the absence of underrepresented groups if AAP Level IV was actually comprised of the cream of the crop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When anyone makes the argument that what they want is for the common good whereas their opponents are only acting according to their self interests, I take it to mean they have no cogent argument and are generally full of shit.

Ignoring the cogent argument and the thoroughly researched narrative on multiple pages and in multiple threads in favor of blissful ignorance is a pretty lame move, but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Still waiting for the scientific studies showing that students benefit from diversity in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting for the scientific studies showing that students benefit from diversity in the classroom.

Well Curie is apparently 99% Indian and they managed to get 28% of the slots for TJ. That’s one data point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a side note, I agree with you about AAP. It has become a very different program from what GT used to be and it is not providing the services that it was originally meant to.

+1, agree wholeheartedly, and thank you. It is so watered down at this point by relatively mediocre students, so much so that it's unconscionable that certain demographics are left out.

I'd be a lot more okay with the absence of underrepresented groups if AAP Level IV was actually comprised of the cream of the crop.

This. My kid's AAP experience was sitting around and being ignored by the teacher while she worked almost exclusively with the kids in the class who were struggling. AAP is not supposed to be a way for upper middle class families with mediocre, mildly advanced kids to escape from the poors and the ESOL students, and yet it seems like over half of the kids in AAP are doing exactly that. Since AAP is not serving the needs of gifted kids at all, it might as well at least give a leg up to some above average poor or under-represented kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When anyone makes the argument that what they want is for the common good whereas their opponents are only acting according to their self interests, I take it to mean they have no cogent argument and are generally full of shit.

Ignoring the cogent argument and the thoroughly researched narrative on multiple pages and in multiple threads in favor of blissful ignorance is a pretty lame move, but you do you.

I haven't seen one source yet for any of these claims. People are just pulling things out of their $$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a side note, I agree with you about AAP. It has become a very different program from what GT used to be and it is not providing the services that it was originally meant to.

+1, agree wholeheartedly, and thank you. It is so watered down at this point by relatively mediocre students, so much so that it's unconscionable that certain demographics are left out.

I'd be a lot more okay with the absence of underrepresented groups if AAP Level IV was actually comprised of the cream of the crop.

This. My kid's AAP experience was sitting around and being ignored by the teacher while she worked almost exclusively with the kids in the class who were struggling. AAP is not supposed to be a way for upper middle class families with mediocre, mildly advanced kids to escape from the poors and the ESOL students, and yet it seems like over half of the kids in AAP are doing exactly that. Since AAP is not serving the needs of gifted kids at all, it might as well at least give a leg up to some above average poor or under-represented kids.

You and the poster you replied to have an interesting take on things. So in other words, the current AAP program is so dumb that even the minorities should have access to it.

Ya'll are trying real hard to be woke but it doesnt work as well when you have racist thought patterns.

[Anonymous]

It’s interesting to watch all the mental gymnastics some people will engage in to justify more of the same racist decision-making that results in a TJHSST that is so obviously discriminatory towards non-Asian students. FCPS clearly has a long way to go if it truly wants to embrace an equity agenda.

I wonder if the Karen Keys-Gamarra’s of the world 0have to courage to take this on or whether they’ll just change more school names to avoid addressing the bigger problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The students who cheated shouldnt face legal problems but they should be removed from TJ for cheating.

Good luck with that. Cheating is rampant at TJ

NP here. I'm pretty sure this thread and the other similar thread are between just two people, who need to get a life. Nobody cares about this as much as the both of you. GET A LIFE.

And yet here you are commenting. Sounds like Curie reps or parents trying to shut down discussion.

There is someone running around on these boards saying "Curie did nothing wrong".... which you wouldn't know unless you work for them or have some investment in them. So it should be assumed that there are Curie reps spreading propaganda here.

Defund AAP and improve all elementary schools.

How will that help my 140iq kid?

She doesn't care about your 140 IQ kid. She can't even comprehend what that could mean.

She gets paid to dismantle this system. That's how she makes a living.

AAP allows for segregated schools which is evil.

How much do you get paid per post?

You are a hypocrite. I bet you are a smug self-righteous liberal screaming for racial justice, affirmative action etc. yet when it comes to doing something that will really matter to provide an essential and viable solution to improve opportunities for all children, especially lower SES, black and Hispanic students by improving one thing that will give them a fighting chance to have opportunities for better life, you dismiss and mock it.

As the saying goes, teach them how to fish rather than giving them fish. Affirmative action is a band-aid and temporary solution. A child must have a solid education from 1st grade to 6th (preferably earlier) grade and build a solid foundation in math, reading, writing, vocabulary and grammar. A child will struggle in middle/high school and college without such solid foundation and just expecting a child who has received poor quality education in elementary school to do well in later years is unrealistic and this child will be at a significant disadvantage for his/her entire life.

In addition, fcps is only obligated to have a separate educational program for "Gifted" children (in addition to special ed) and AAP is certainly not a gifted education that it may have been many years ago. AAP just serves to provide additional advantages for mostly upper and upper middle class white children to receive better education than the gen ed children. It is unconscionable period not to mention all the shenanigans at the appeals stage perpetrated by mostly upper middle class white parents. Better to have a real gifted education that is limited to less than 5% at most and improve all schools especially the ones in poorer neighborhoods.

You still didn't say how much you get paid!!

And ...... wait for it .... it's pretty clear you are the SJW.

I get nothing. Surprised anyone gets paid to post on this board.

So what is the impetus for all of your angst for AAP? Does this impact you personally?

It continually amazes me how little people understand the idea of folks acting for the common good rather than relentlessly pursuing craven self-interest.

Its not really the common good if you are taking opportunity away from some kids.

And poor children will still suffer after you've succeeded in dismantling AAP.

I'm the person you're responding to and I'm not interested in dismantling AAP - that's someone else.

It is really the common good when you're improving the experience for the kids who are in the program by introducing diverse perspectives to the academic conversation, and when you're improving the experience for the kids who are in gen ed by bringing students with a bit more academic fluency into the classroom. And it's probably better for the kids who are moving because now they're in the position of being leaders in the classroom instead of being on the back end with a bunch of kids who look exactly like them but are just better.

My kid's perspective is diverse enough (we are not white). I would not want my kid to go back to general ed to be someone else's inspiration for academic fluency or whatever you want to call it. We want the best education that FCPS can offer and that isnt in the general ed room.

I agree.

I want more academic rigor, not less. I want my kid to be challenged. I want his peers to be highly motivated who push each other to succeed and are interested in academics. Slowing my kid down doesn't help them.

My kids don't need more diverse perspectives. They're multi lingual and have lived abroad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting to watch all the mental gymnastics some people will engage in to justify more of the same racist decision-making that results in a TJHSST that is so obviously discriminatory towards non-Asian students. FCPS clearly has a long way to go if it truly wants to embrace an equity agenda.

I wonder if the Karen Keys-Gamarra’s of the world 0have to courage to take this on or whether they’ll just change more school names to avoid addressing the bigger problems.

There are no mental gymnastics. Asian parents outwork other parents on prepping their kids for TJ admissions. Setting aside the cheating parents, it has been known and accepted in this area forever that Asians prep their kids hard from lower elementary until TJ. Sorry but they are just outworking other groups on this -even white parents ... which in this area says A LOT. It is what it is. They put in the work (cheaters aside). Even if you change up the criteria, they will adjust and still put in more work to meet the new standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a side note, I agree with you about AAP. It has become a very different program from what GT used to be and it is not providing the services that it was originally meant to.

+1, agree wholeheartedly, and thank you. It is so watered down at this point by relatively mediocre students, so much so that it's unconscionable that certain demographics are left out.

I'd be a lot more okay with the absence of underrepresented groups if AAP Level IV was actually comprised of the cream of the crop.

This. My kid's AAP experience was sitting around and being ignored by the teacher while she worked almost exclusively with the kids in the class who were struggling. AAP is not supposed to be a way for upper middle class families with mediocre, mildly advanced kids to escape from the poors and the ESOL students, and yet it seems like over half of the kids in AAP are doing exactly that. Since AAP is not serving the needs of gifted kids at all, it might as well at least give a leg up to some above average poor or under-represented kids.

You and the poster you replied to have an interesting take on things. So in other words, the current AAP program is so dumb that even the minorities should have access to it.

Ya'll are trying real hard to be woke but it doesnt work as well when you have racist thought patterns.

Oh for Pete's sake! My take is not that "AAP is so dumb that even the minorities should have access to it." It's that the admission mechanism is heavily tilted in the favor of wealthier, more privileged kids, such that it's failing to identify bright minorities at the same time that it's admitting a bunch of mediocre white and Asian kids. AAP either needs to become a true GT program, meaning that GT is treated like a special need for the kids who truly have needs that can't be met in a regular classroom, or it needs to try harder to find bright minorities and try less hard to boost up mediocre privileged kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The students who cheated shouldnt face legal problems but they should be removed from TJ for cheating.

Good luck with that. Cheating is rampant at TJ

NP here. I'm pretty sure this thread and the other similar thread are between just two people, who need to get a life. Nobody cares about this as much as the both of you. GET A LIFE.

And yet here you are commenting. Sounds like Curie reps or parents trying to shut down discussion.

There is someone running around on these boards saying "Curie did nothing wrong".... which you wouldn't know unless you work for them or have some investment in them. So it should be assumed that there are Curie reps spreading propaganda here.

Defund AAP and improve all elementary schools.

How will that help my 140iq kid?

She doesn't care about your 140 IQ kid. She can't even comprehend what that could mean.

She gets paid to dismantle this system. That's how she makes a living.

AAP allows for segregated schools which is evil.

How much do you get paid per post?

You are a hypocrite. I bet you are a smug self-righteous liberal screaming for racial justice, affirmative action etc. yet when it comes to doing something that will really matter to provide an essential and viable solution to improve opportunities for all children, especially lower SES, black and Hispanic students by improving one thing that will give them a fighting chance to have opportunities for better life, you dismiss and mock it.

As the saying goes, teach them how to fish rather than giving them fish. Affirmative action is a band-aid and temporary solution. A child must have a solid education from 1st grade to 6th (preferably earlier) grade and build a solid foundation in math, reading, writing, vocabulary and grammar. A child will struggle in middle/high school and college without such solid foundation and just expecting a child who has received poor quality education in elementary school to do well in later years is unrealistic and this child will be at a significant disadvantage for his/her entire life.

In addition, fcps is only obligated to have a separate educational program for "Gifted" children (in addition to special ed) and AAP is certainly not a gifted education that it may have been many years ago. AAP just serves to provide additional advantages for mostly upper and upper middle class white children to receive better education than the gen ed children. It is unconscionable period not to mention all the shenanigans at the appeals stage perpetrated by mostly upper middle class white parents. Better to have a real gifted education that is limited to less than 5% at most and improve all schools especially the ones in poorer neighborhoods.

You still didn't say how much you get paid!!

And ...... wait for it .... it's pretty clear you are the SJW.

I get nothing. Surprised anyone gets paid to post on this board.

So what is the impetus for all of your angst for AAP? Does this impact you personally?

It continually amazes me how little people understand the idea of folks acting for the common good rather than relentlessly pursuing craven self-interest.

Its not really the common good if you are taking opportunity away from some kids.

And poor children will still suffer after you've succeeded in dismantling AAP.

I'm the person you're responding to and I'm not interested in dismantling AAP - that's someone else.

It is really the common good when you're improving the experience for the kids who are in the program by introducing diverse perspectives to the academic conversation, and when you're improving the experience for the kids who are in gen ed by bringing students with a bit more academic fluency into the classroom. And it's probably better for the kids who are moving because now they're in the position of being leaders in the classroom instead of being on the back end with a bunch of kids who look exactly like them but are just better.

My kid's perspective is diverse enough (we are not white). I would not want my kid to go back to general ed to be someone else's inspiration for academic fluency or whatever you want to call it. We want the best education that FCPS can offer and that isnt in the general ed room.

I agree.

I want more academic rigor, not less. I want my kid to be challenged. I want his peers to be highly motivated who push each other to succeed and are interested in academics. Slowing my kid down doesn't help them.

My kids don't need more diverse perspectives. They're multi lingual and have lived abroad.

“My kid...my kid...my kids“ ... it’s time the system stop catering to the same self-centered crowd who suck all the oxygen out of the room with their insistence that their privileged kids are better than everyone else’s.

[Anonymous]

“My kid...my kid...my kids“ ... it’s time the system stop catering to the same self-centered crowd who suck all the oxygen out of the room with their insistence that their privileged kids are better than everyone else’s.

No one has said their kid is better than anyone else's. No one.

It isn't self centered to advocate for the best educational opportunity for your child(ren). That is kind of a parent's main job.

And anyway, you won't have to deal with AAP parents who "suck all the oxygen out of the room" since the kids are separated. Just leave AAP alone.