Gang Activity in Montgomery County Shcools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm unclear on the point of this thread at this point.This thread started out talking about gangs and divulged into how crappy Einstein and the DCC schools are. Sorry but I don't buy the ones doing the bashing give a flying f*%& about the kids in these schools. But maybe I'm just cynical! But to sincerely try to address the questions of the last few posters....

In any given school, low-income kids have a lot of barriers that the higher income kids don't have. If parents are working two jobs are unpredictable hours they can't control in truly grueling jobs (vs. me being able to take a break as I WFH on my laptop from my professional job) they may not have time and energy to keep up with homework, etc. They may not be eating healthy, homemade foods. They may not be able to keep kids on a good sleep schedule if they need to be up and out of the house early etc. They may have other stresses - safety, financial, etc.

Those are HUGE reasons why the white (often higher income, at least in some areas) or higher income kids do better. I think Montgomery County has done some good things to try to address some of the barriers. For example, our kids go to a focus school (elementary) and they have free breakfast in the classroom for everyone, so the low-income kids who quality for free breakfast don't have to feel bad or different. Our kindergartner has a very late lunch so they ask parents to pack a snack. But many of us were asked to donate snacks so that kids whose parents don't/can't pack one (or whose parents forget) can have snacks. I know there are more extensive programs than that but I do think some things are being addressed. Sadly though, as others have stated, schools can't control for things like maternal education and other factors that drive overall student performance.

I think what some posters have been trying to say is that even though they are not themselves low-income or facing barriers, they know their kids have a high chance of success due to the other factors (HHI, parental education, family support, security, etc.) I don't think anyone is saying they don't feel for the kids at risk or are not concerned about them or don't think the schools should do more. But that average standardized test scores are not a good proxy for how their kids will do.

Please
Only thing these posters are trying to say is that low-income non-white people are beneath us because of A, B, C, D, E, F, G...........
For whatever reason they get their jollies off running down the lists and breaking out the data to show their superiority and echo the same sentiments about how pathetic poor minorities are.

[Anonymous]

I think what some posters have been trying to say is that even though they are not themselves low-income or facing barriers, they know their kids have a high chance of success due to the other factors (HHI, parental education, family support, security, etc.) I don't think anyone is saying they don't feel for the kids at risk or are not concerned about them or don't think the schools should do more. But that average standardized test scores are not a good proxy for how their kids will do.

Exactly. People have said specifically that they think it's good that their children study with people of different backgrounds, that they truly embrace diversity, and that schools should be judged on how well they educate disadvantaged children. No one insinuated otherwise, except of course for the people bashing DCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is a middle ground: some FARMS families might value education and offer their children an environment where they can succeed. This is not the case for the majority of FARMS students, as suggested by Figure 1 in the link I provided earlier.

Bottom line: the FARMs percentage don't measure what you want it to measure. So why use it?

I like how test scores don't reflect the education outcomes, FARMS percentages are meaningless, but the white kids get the same education no matter where they go to school. So all the schools are equal.

Do you think that a child's PARCC score is an accurate measure of how much a child values education? Or of how much the child's parent values education?

How about whether or not a child receives free or reduced meals -- do you think that's an accurate measure of how much a child or a parent values education?

[Anonymous]

So there are two types of insecure parents: those who use test scores to justify how much they paid for their Bethesda house and those who claim that test scores don't matter because their kids get a good education anyway. Am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is a middle ground: some FARMS families might value education and offer their children an environment where they can succeed. This is not the case for the majority of FARMS students, as suggested by Figure 1 in the link I provided earlier.

Bottom line: the FARMs percentage don't measure what you want it to measure. So why use it?

I like how test scores don't reflect the education outcomes, FARMS percentages are meaningless, but the white kids get the same education no matter where they go to school. So all the schools are equal.

Do you think that a child's PARCC score is an accurate measure of how much a child values education? Or of how much the child's parent values education?

How about whether or not a child receives free or reduced meals -- do you think that's an accurate measure of how much a child or a parent values education?

We are not talking about how much somebody values education, we are talking about the actual education they get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is a middle ground: some FARMS families might value education and offer their children an environment where they can succeed. This is not the case for the majority of FARMS students, as suggested by Figure 1 in the link I provided earlier.

Bottom line: the FARMs percentage don't measure what you want it to measure. So why use it?

I like how test scores don't reflect the education outcomes, FARMS percentages are meaningless, but the white kids get the same education no matter where they go to school. So all the schools are equal.

Do you think that a child's PARCC score is an accurate measure of how much a child values education? Or of how much the child's parent values education?

How about whether or not a child receives free or reduced meals -- do you think that's an accurate measure of how much a child or a parent values education?

We are not talking about how much somebody values education, we are talking about the actual education they get.

Tell that to the person who said that they want to have their children in the classroom with other children who value education.

Also, PARCC doesn't measure education that students get -- it measures knowledge that students have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So there are two types of insecure parents: those who use test scores to justify how much they paid for their Bethesda house and those who claim that test scores don't matter because their kids get a good education anyway. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the fact that the parents are saying A SCHOOL'S OVERALL AVERAGE TEST SCORE doesn't matter TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL KID'S EDUCATION, because their individual kid is getting a good education.

Capital letters for emphasis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Here is a middle ground: some FARMS families might value education and offer their children an environment where they can succeed. This is not the case for the majority of FARMS students, as suggested by Figure 1 in the link I provided earlier.

Bottom line: the FARMs percentage don't measure what you want it to measure. So why use it?

I like how test scores don't reflect the education outcomes, FARMS percentages are meaningless, but the white kids get the same education no matter where they go to school. So all the schools are equal.

Do you think that a child's PARCC score is an accurate measure of how much a child values education? Or of how much the child's parent values education?

How about whether or not a child receives free or reduced meals -- do you think that's an accurate measure of how much a child or a parent values education?

We are not talking about how much somebody values education, we are talking about the actual education they get.

Tell that to the person who said that they want to have their children in the classroom with other children who value education.

Also, PARCC doesn't measure education that students get -- it measures knowledge that students have.

And how does one determine who does/doesn't value education? Oh...of course...their ethnicity is the perfect gauge right!!
So obviously the person who said they want to have their children in the classroom with other kids who value education is just using codespeak to say, "I only want my kid in class with white and Asian children."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there are two types of insecure parents: those who use test scores to justify how much they paid for their Bethesda house and those who claim that test scores don't matter because their kids get a good education anyway. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the fact that the parents are saying A SCHOOL'S OVERALL AVERAGE TEST SCORE doesn't matter TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL KID'S EDUCATION, because their individual kid is getting a good education.

Capital letters for emphasis.

Those are in my second category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, PARCC doesn't measure education that students get -- it measures knowledge that students have.

Knowledge and ability to use knowledge are quite important parts of education. Can you come up with other quantitative metrics to measure education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, PARCC doesn't measure education that students get -- it measures knowledge that students have.

Knowledge and ability to use knowledge are quite important parts of education. Can you come up with other quantitative metrics to measure education?

That depends on whose education, eh? What are you trying to measure? Are you trying to measure how much a student knows, or how much a school taught?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there are two types of insecure parents: those who use test scores to justify how much they paid for their Bethesda house and those who claim that test scores don't matter because their kids get a good education anyway. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the fact that the parents are saying A SCHOOL'S OVERALL AVERAGE TEST SCORE doesn't matter TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL KID'S EDUCATION, because their individual kid is getting a good education.

Capital letters for emphasis.

Those are in my second category.

No, they're not. Unless you think that parents who say, "My kid is getting a good education in a school with lots of kids who are poor and brown", in response to comments that it is not possible to get a good education in a school with lots of kids who are poor and brown, must be insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And how does one determine who does/doesn't value education? Oh...of course...their ethnicity is the perfect gauge right!!
So obviously the person who said they want to have their children in the classroom with other kids who value education is just using codespeak to say, "I only want my kid in class with white and Asian children."

Yep.

Actually -- with affluent white and Asian children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there are two types of insecure parents: those who use test scores to justify how much they paid for their Bethesda house and those who claim that test scores don't matter because their kids get a good education anyway. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the fact that the parents are saying A SCHOOL'S OVERALL AVERAGE TEST SCORE doesn't matter TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL KID'S EDUCATION, because their individual kid is getting a good education.

Capital letters for emphasis.

Those are in my second category.

No, they're not. Unless you think that parents who say, "My kid is getting a good education in a school with lots of kids who are poor and brown", in response to comments that it is not possible to get a good education in a school with lots of kids who are poor and brown, must be insecure.

Well, if they weren't insecure, they wouldn't try so hard to make it look like test results don't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, PARCC doesn't measure education that students get -- it measures knowledge that students have.

Knowledge and ability to use knowledge are quite important parts of education. Can you come up with other quantitative metrics to measure education?

That depends on whose education, eh? What are you trying to measure? Are you trying to measure how much a student knows, or how much a school taught?

The latter would be better if we are talking strictly about school performance. The former would better show how well educated the student body it is. Either way, come up with a quantitative metric that we can use instead of these meaningless test scores.