How's basis going so far?

[Anonymous]

^^ As a mental health professional working out of NIH, I've treated more than a few dangerously stressed out adolescents who appear to be thriving at high octane area high schools. I find that parents and educators have a strong tendency to assume that doing well in school and college equates to good mental health. You see kids and 20-somethings who soar academically yet suffer emotionally.

The recent documentary Race to Nowhere is an eye-opener on the subject.

Does anybody know what sort of counseling and mental health support Basis DC is providing to kids who need it?

[Anonymous]

I suspect the reason for the strong language in this Basis debate is the worry about our kids, not so much antipathy toward those who disagree. It's so hard to divine what's the best way to parent. Even the dad whose son won't speak to him because he was pushed too hard...of course that dad thought he was doing the right thing. Likewise the parents who let the child take full ownership whose kid just skips homework. And put all those parents in the same school and you get some serious defensiveness and smugness. But in fact we just don't know. And, as if academic philosophies weren't enough, there's the social stuff.
That's why it's tough to get a calm discussion going here. I've tried, with innocuous posts seeking views about teachers, the picnic, the AP's, homework load, classroom behavior and other topics that go to 'how's Basis going so far?'. These posts fell flat, because they didn't tap into the fundamental question, is basis the 'answer' for my kid. For me the jury is out and that stresses me out a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the reason for the strong language in this Basis debate is the worry about our kids, not so much antipathy toward those who disagree. It's so hard to divine what's the best way to parent. Even the dad whose son won't speak to him because he was pushed too hard...of course that dad thought he was doing the right thing. Likewise the parents who let the child take full ownership whose kid just skips homework. And put all those parents in the same school and you get some serious defensiveness and smugness. But in fact we just don't know. And, as if academic philosophies weren't enough, there's the social stuff.
That's why it's tough to get a calm discussion going here. I've tried, with innocuous posts seeking views about teachers, the picnic, the AP's, homework load, classroom behavior and other topics that go to 'how's Basis going so far?'. These posts fell flat, because they didn't tap into the fundamental question, is basis the 'answer' for my kid. For me the jury is out and that stresses me out a lot.

\

But rest assured that family support and concern is the number 1 factor in childhood success (academic or otherwise)! That is the key to success (or survival) at BASIS or a failing local public school. My specific concern as a BASIS tucson parent is in addressing some core concerns at what is otherwise an excellent institution (because of the kids and teachers). I also wish to give DC parents a heads up / insight into the BASIS corporation / mind of Olga Block, since it is a new thing for you.

Originally the BASIS recipe was simple... get the best teachers in a crappy building and foster a culture of quirky excellence while also offering challenging classes including a healthy dose of APs (i.e., fostering both academic achievement AND individual creativity / love of learning for its own sake). Now, however, the recipe has changed due I think to the hubris of the founders and the desire to standardize and replicate the recipe nationwide. At BASIS tucson the recipe now keeps the teachers (although subjects them to increasing burdens and hardships with no raises or empowerment) but is raising the academic courseload well beyond what the teachers independently (and working holistically as an educational community) would do. My feeling is that many at our campus remain due to lack of alternatives, but deal everyday with the psychological impact on the kids and the lack of necessary experiences beyond study/test/study. So that is where I think again just at the Tucson campus the parents need to organize and push back somewhat using their purchasing power as leverage (if in fact a substantial number of parents are at BASIS due to lack of alternatives and want some changes made to the current BASIS model). Mostly this is just my therapy. If any of it is of any use to you guys, great.

PS You know how Finland is often touted as a model of education... they don't allow private schools. Single most awesome innovation that Americans would never tolerate. I bet DC schools would improve significantly if Sasha and Malia had to attend!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ As a mental health professional working out of NIH, I've treated more than a few dangerously stressed out adolescents who appear to be thriving at high octane area high schools. I find that parents and educators have a strong tendency to assume that doing well in school and college equates to good mental health. You see kids and 20-somethings who soar academically yet suffer emotionally.

The recent documentary Race to Nowhere is an eye-opener on the subject.

Does anybody know what sort of counseling and mental health support Basis DC is providing to kids who need it?


Are you kidding me? The kids were stressed initially because they finally had high standards to live up to! Please excuse me for not being worried yet about my 10 year old who has time for creative and emotionally enriching activities after school hours. The last thing I would want is some therapist in school tracking my DC.

[Anonymous]

10/14/2012 13:47 - You're incorrect. Count day for BASIS is October 22nd. They still have time to gain more students and get paid for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you kidding me? The kids were stressed initially because they finally had high standards to live up to! Please excuse me for not being worried yet about my 10 year old who has time for creative and emotionally enriching activities after school hours. The last thing I would want is some therapist in school tracking my DC.

I attended Bronx Science where top students, particularly stressed out Asian kids with insane Tiger Parents, were known to attempt suicide. If BASIS DC really is going to accelerate like crazy from a young age, I hope that they will watch for danger signs, however that works. Sure, most of you have 11 year olds at Basis now, but kids grow up fast and some are going to come under crazy pressure to perform in a few years, given that parents who can't afford privates have so few options beyond moving and the curriculum won't be a great fit for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you kidding me? The kids were stressed initially because they finally had high standards to live up to! Please excuse me for not being worried yet about my 10 year old who has time for creative and emotionally enriching activities after school hours. The last thing I would want is some therapist in school tracking my DC.

I attended Bronx Science where top students, particularly stressed out Asian kids with insane Tiger Parents, were known to attempt suicide. If BASIS DC really is going to accelerate like crazy from a young age, I hope that they will watch for danger signs, however that works. Sure, most of you have 11 year olds at Basis now, but kids grow up fast and some are going to come under crazy pressure to perform in a few years, given that parents who can't afford privates have so few options beyond moving and the curriculum won't be a great fit for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you kidding me? The kids were stressed initially because they finally had high standards to live up to! Please excuse me for not being worried yet about my 10 year old who has time for creative and emotionally enriching activities after school hours. The last thing I would want is some therapist in school tracking my DC.

I attended Bronx Science where top students, particularly stressed out Asian kids with insane Tiger Parents, were known to attempt suicide. If BASIS DC really is going to accelerate like crazy from a young age, I hope that they will watch for danger signs, however that works. Sure, most of you have 11 year olds at Basis now, but kids grow up fast and some are going to come under crazy pressure to perform in a few years, given that parents who can't afford privates have so few options beyond moving and the curriculum won't be a great fit for many.

I went to Stuy as did my siblings and cousins. We are Asian with Tiger Parents. The only one who attempted suicide (and eventually succeeded) was a cousin and it was b/c he had schizophrenia. If a child attempts suicide, it's b/c of underlying mental illness and while a high pressure environment may contribute somewhat, it isn't the cause. My cousin would have tried to kill himself if he went to another H.S. and he loved being at Stuy despite his illness. Your argument against Basis is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:17 / 21:31And again, as a reminder, the Basis grad who posted here got into a best-of-breed group at Stanford. There is something to be said for that- he probably would have been far less prepared and far less likely to have had that opportunity had he gone through the regular public school system.

So all's well that ends well because the guy was admitted to Stanford? I was disabused of the notion that attending a blue chip college at any cost pays off long ago, when a sibling died of a drug overdose at any Ivy. Moreover, I have a spouse who barely speaks to his father a quarter-century after graduating from MIT because his immigrant dad subjected him to extreme academic pressure throughout his childhood. And I haven't forgotten how two Brown classmates took their own lives on campus (class of '90 for those needing to verify). My Ivy PhD program was largely populated by happy seeming non-Ivy grads. If the Stanford Basis Tuscon guy feels that he would've been better off elsewhere in secondary school, his prerogative. In MoCo, the "regular public school system" includes full-time programs for highly gifted 4th and 5th graders and middle schoolers where, as I understand it, creativity is not in short supply. Those are the sort of enrichment programs I'd like to see emerge in DC, whatever happens at Basis.

Some difficult stories, but I don't see how it relates specifically. You, your spouse, the Brown students for example did not go to BASIS, nor likely anything exactly like it, and we don't know how their schooling or background relates to BASIS. There are any number of reasons that could be contributing to those tragedies, for example, the basic dynamic between your spouse and his father, or other causes for stress that took the lives of your Brown classmates.

I felt significant academic stress in college as well, for example - but for entirely different reasons than what you are alluding to. I tested high IQ, was in G&T programs, AP courses at an upscale, well-regarded school in the Pennsylvania suburbs, graduated National Honor Society, voted "Class Genius", got multiple scholarships for college. But, I skated through school, spent half my time with my head in the clouds, really didn't have to apply myself, wasn't really challenged, didn't have to work hard, yet still got excellent grades. When I graduated, I entered an excellent university for science and engineering, and promptly began to discover that I really didn't have any good organizational skills, really didn't have good study habits and really didn't have any self-discipline, and it nearly broke me in college. I felt thoroughly underprepared. For example, I had classmates coming in who had already had Calculus, whereas my own school hadn't even offered it - I was scrambling to catch up on so many things. My grades plummeted, caused me a great deal of stress and it took a concerted effort to turn it around. I don't want to see the same happen to my child. And, the sooner he develops those good habits, time management, and self-discipline, the better. I learned this the hard way, and I feel it set me back on many levels, I don't want my child to also have to learn it the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ As a mental health professional working out of NIH, I've treated more than a few dangerously stressed out adolescents who appear to be thriving at high octane area high schools. I find that parents and educators have a strong tendency to assume that doing well in school and college equates to good mental health. You see kids and 20-somethings who soar academically yet suffer emotionally.

The recent documentary Race to Nowhere is an eye-opener on the subject.

Does anybody know what sort of counseling and mental health support Basis DC is providing to kids who need it?

Why the need to speculate, extrapolate, opine and hypothesize like this? There IS empirical information out there.

Basis has 8 schools in Arizona now, many of them running for several years already, going back to 1998 and 2003. All Basis schools are following the same model and approach. Yet for all that, there's no surfacing of "dangerous stress" that might lead to the kinds of breakdowns that the posters above have speculated about.

[Anonymous]

Why the need to speculate, extrapolate, opine and hypothesize like this? There IS empirical information out there.

Basis has 8 schools in Arizona now, many of them running for several years already, going back to 1998 and 2003. All Basis schools are following the same model and approach. Yet for all that, there's no surfacing of "dangerous stress" that might lead to the kinds of breakdowns that the posters above have speculated about.

Well it is question of degree, perhaps. I think it is important to note that Olga Block's system in her words is designed for "workaholics" (see http://www.joannejacobs.com/2012/08/is-basis-too-tough-for-d-c-students/). Student workaholics like their adult counterparts are liable to mental health problems, but suicide is of course an extreme. A greater risk for parents to assess is simply the cumulative effect of a workaholic 5-12 experience. Will it "deaden the spark" of the child? At Basis Tucson, for example, senior year is supposed to be a "summa cum laude" capstone experience, but in actual fact many seniors simply deflate and get by after a grueling junior year, or simply do not have the capacity to transition to academic independence after years of test prep (I get this from first hand conversations with students and teachers at that campus). This is my concern, and it is important to raise simply as a factor to consider in the overall decision of which school to attend and why. Of course it is also possible that BASIS DC will moderate its academic pressures and confront this challenge.

[Anonymous]

18:48, Your same "stress" and "workaholic" concern can just as easily be suggested of many of the privates, public magnets and charters. And, as they go into adult life pressures only continue in much of the working world.

So, what's the conclusion here - just blissful denial and cheerfully think it can just be avoided altogether, maybe our kids can just go to a non-demanding school that never gets beyond basic math, and get a job flipping burgers and kicking back on the beach, never having to work hard, or accept the reality of modern life and work on developing and instilling coping mechanisms and life skills for dealing with it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:48, Your same "stress" and "workaholic" concern can just as easily be suggested of many of the privates, public magnets and charters. And, as they go into adult life pressures only continue in much of the working world.

So, what's the conclusion here - just blissful denial and cheerfully think it can just be avoided altogether, maybe our kids can just go to a non-demanding school that never gets beyond basic math, and get a job flipping burgers and kicking back on the beach, never having to work hard, or accept the reality of modern life and work on developing and instilling coping mechanisms and life skills for dealing with it?

If "it" is workaholism" then yes, I'd say it can and should be avoided altogether! Every school will have its own level of rigor, and every student will have their own limits as to what they can handle, but no other school I am aware of (except perhaps military academies) explicitly adopts "workaholism" as the guiding philosophy. And I think for good reason.

More generally, I'd say the conclusion here is that each family, considering the totality of the circumstances, needs to make the best choice they can regarding education among some pretty slim pickings in the public school aisle. All the views expressed in this thread I believe and hope will help families in their decision-making process. My reservations about the BASIS Tucson model for all but the most unusually (and perhaps even unhealthily) test-driven kids are based on comparison with my own experience at a private high school, an ivy league college, and top 15 law school, my casual acquaintance with Olga Block and her modus operandi, and my conversations with a number of teachers and parents at the Tucson campus with whom I am friends and students (past and present) I have met through their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:48, Your same "stress" and "workaholic" concern can just as easily be suggested of many of the privates, public magnets and charters. And, as they go into adult life pressures only continue in much of the working world.

So, what's the conclusion here - just blissful denial and cheerfully think it can just be avoided altogether, maybe our kids can just go to a non-demanding school that never gets beyond basic math, and get a job flipping burgers and kicking back on the beach, never having to work hard, or accept the reality of modern life and work on developing and instilling coping mechanisms and life skills for dealing with it?

If "it" is workaholism" then yes, I'd say it can and should be avoided altogether! Every school will have its own level of rigor, and every student will have their own limits as to what they can handle, but no other school I am aware of (except perhaps military academies) explicitly adopts "workaholism" as the guiding philosophy. And I think for good reason.

More generally, I'd say the conclusion here is that each family, considering the totality of the circumstances, needs to make the best choice they can regarding education among some pretty slim pickings in the public school aisle. All the views expressed in this thread I believe and hope will help families in their decision-making process. My reservations about the BASIS Tucson model for all but the most unusually (and perhaps even unhealthily) test-driven kids are based on comparison with my own experience at a private high school, an ivy league college, and top 15 law school, my casual acquaintance with Olga Block and her modus operandi, and my conversations with a number of teachers and parents at the Tucson campus with whom I am friends and students (past and present) I have met through their parents.

I should add that even with my extreme reservations, we still have our child in 5th grade at BASIS Tucson for lack of better alternatives. But boy are we looking!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:48, Your same "stress" and "workaholic" concern can just as easily be suggested of many of the privates, public magnets and charters. And, as they go into adult life pressures only continue in much of the working world.

So, what's the conclusion here - just blissful denial and cheerfully think it can just be avoided altogether, maybe our kids can just go to a non-demanding school that never gets beyond basic math, and get a job flipping burgers and kicking back on the beach, never having to work hard, or accept the reality of modern life and work on developing and instilling coping mechanisms and life skills for dealing with it?

I think another conclusion here is that at least some number of affluent and/or well-educated parents at the flagship school in Tucson are of the opinion that, despite its strong points (primarily good teachers, great kids, and raised expectations), there is something fundamentally wrong about the BASIS model, especially its most recent iterations as the model has gone national. The DC campus will be buoyed right now by enthusiasm, healthy trepidation, and excitement and so perhaps these comments from outside the bubble will be of use. Or not.