O Canada 🇨🇦

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Trump is an embarrassment.

Carney is awesome. He is astute and has just enough sense of humour to acknowledge that he hears stupid, but enough class not to necessarily engage it. He did it during the debates. I like him more daily.

Carney is what a smart and economically astute politician actually looks like, not this brain dead, obese orange lump America’s idiots elected.

Carney backed himself into a corner in order to win an election. He *could* have given himself an out to try to become Australia with a strong commodity export economy, but the environmentalists on his left would never have elected him. So he’s also all in on ESG BS.

Make no mistake about it, Canada’s economy makes no sense if it cannot export en mass to the USA. There is no other market for Canada and transport costs across an ocean in either direction make it hard for Canada to replace the USA as a destination market. Even if you can get past that, you need to find a trade partner willing to run trade deficits in your favor (good luck!).

He said what he had to say to win an election. And his posturing is certainly cathartic for those that hate Trump. But it is going to be hard for any future American leader for the next few decades to engage in trade agreements. Obama was blocked on TPA and free trade is only going to be more radioactive for the next few decades in American politics.

Meanwhile, Carney is playing a dangerous game with no clear end other than having gotten him elected. He can’t possibly strike a deal with Trump and the USA without shooting himself in the face. So what is the end game? He can and will make life more difficult for Trump, but there is no winning move available on the chess board.

Your argument would make sense if the US were demanding something specific in the way of a “trade deal”. But we aren’t. Trump tore up his own negotiated agreement from 2017 but has never articulated what he wants from Canada, other than the ridiculous 51st state BS. So Carney really has no basis or reason to negotiate with the US.

Respectfully, you don’t get it. YES, this trade folly is hurting America but it is hurrying everybody else so much more.

The morality of who tore up what is meaningless. Eventually Trump will ask for something but Carney cannot possibly cut a deal with Trump given the posture Carney has taken. He can try to wait out until the 2028 election, but there are no guarantees there and there will be incalculable damage to the Canadian economy in the meantime. I also don’t believe that free trade is going to be a winner in American politics for a long time. Before Trump even sniffed the levers of power Obama was humiliated internationally by our Congress with the failure of fast tracking authority and the TPA.

I really like Canada and Canadians; I have no desire for them to become the 51st state. But this isn’t a relationship of equals and they need us a whole lot more than we need them. The Mexican president has done a much better job trying to thread the needle of asserting her country’s interests without setting down red lines that are impossible for her to cross at a later date. But, then again, she was not facing an election. So I get why Carney has taken his posture. But he’s backed himself into a corner he can’t get out of.

There can be no negotiation as long as Trump repeats the 51st state garbage every chance he gets and doesn’t respect the sovereignty of Canadian borders. The fact that Trump’s rhetoric swung the election to Carney’s party should give you a clue that the only thing less popular in Canada than incumbents who were about to be kicked out because of the global backlash against inflation, is Trump himself.

You are still missing the point. Canada and the USA are not equals. Canada has an helluva lot more to lose here. Even if Trump tries to reconcile Carney cannot. Carney explicitly staked out the position that the era of economic integration with the USA is over and will never happen again. I am not defending Trump. Canada has a right to feel aggrieved. But eventually Canada has to reconcile with the USA and trade or face the prospect of becoming something in between the UK and Turkey (e.g., poor and becoming poorer by the day). That’s not a position that Canada can afford to find itself in. Frankly, the reconciliation needs to happen sooner rather than later and Carney cannot possibly reconcile the relationship while Trump is in office.

Everything you said is correct, but also irrelevant because this is a relationship of massively unequal parties where one side needs to other whole lot more. This isn’t about justice or righteousness. This is realpolitik, plain and simple. And Carney has no leverage or other options to win after the corner he’s backed himself into. Yes, he can make things difficult on Trump, as he should, but his people are about to suffer more over then next four years than any damage he can inflict on Trump. It is an asymmetrical position and Carney made it harder on himself to survive this fiasco.

If you think I’m wrong, tell me how Carney wins here.

As you stated, Canada has no leverage. Everything you say is about how Carney is at Trumps beck and call, well if that's the case, why would you not try to put yourself in a different situation? If you keep banging your head against the wall, why wouldn't you stop and look for another exit? It's because everything you said is right that Canada has NO choice but to move forward and find other ways of survival. So exactly why is he wrong for not kowtowing to Trump? If he has no leverage, he has to find another deal where he does. No point to stick around!

There are more options than kowtowing/deference. As I said, the Mexican president is doing a great job advocating for her people’s interests while giving herself an exit ramp to a future deal if it presents itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Trump is an embarrassment.

Carney is awesome. He is astute and has just enough sense of humour to acknowledge that he hears stupid, but enough class not to necessarily engage it. He did it during the debates. I like him more daily.

Carney is what a smart and economically astute politician actually looks like, not this brain dead, obese orange lump America’s idiots elected.

Carney backed himself into a corner in order to win an election. He *could* have given himself an out to try to become Australia with a strong commodity export economy, but the environmentalists on his left would never have elected him. So he’s also all in on ESG BS.

Make no mistake about it, Canada’s economy makes no sense if it cannot export en mass to the USA. There is no other market for Canada and transport costs across an ocean in either direction make it hard for Canada to replace the USA as a destination market. Even if you can get past that, you need to find a trade partner willing to run trade deficits in your favor (good luck!).

He said what he had to say to win an election. And his posturing is certainly cathartic for those that hate Trump. But it is going to be hard for any future American leader for the next few decades to engage in trade agreements. Obama was blocked on TPA and free trade is only going to be more radioactive for the next few decades in American politics.

Meanwhile, Carney is playing a dangerous game with no clear end other than having gotten him elected. He can’t possibly strike a deal with Trump and the USA without shooting himself in the face. So what is the end game? He can and will make life more difficult for Trump, but there is no winning move available on the chess board.

Your argument would make sense if the US were demanding something specific in the way of a “trade deal”. But we aren’t. Trump tore up his own negotiated agreement from 2017 but has never articulated what he wants from Canada, other than the ridiculous 51st state BS. So Carney really has no basis or reason to negotiate with the US.

Respectfully, you don’t get it. YES, this trade folly is hurting America but it is hurrying everybody else so much more.

The morality of who tore up what is meaningless. Eventually Trump will ask for something but Carney cannot possibly cut a deal with Trump given the posture Carney has taken. He can try to wait out until the 2028 election, but there are no guarantees there and there will be incalculable damage to the Canadian economy in the meantime. I also don’t believe that free trade is going to be a winner in American politics for a long time. Before Trump even sniffed the levers of power Obama was humiliated internationally by our Congress with the failure of fast tracking authority and the TPA.

I really like Canada and Canadians; I have no desire for them to become the 51st state. But this isn’t a relationship of equals and they need us a whole lot more than we need them. The Mexican president has done a much better job trying to thread the needle of asserting her country’s interests without setting down red lines that are impossible for her to cross at a later date. But, then again, she was not facing an election. So I get why Carney has taken his posture. But he’s backed himself into a corner he can’t get out of.

There can be no negotiation as long as Trump repeats the 51st state garbage every chance he gets and doesn’t respect the sovereignty of Canadian borders. The fact that Trump’s rhetoric swung the election to Carney’s party should give you a clue that the only thing less popular in Canada than incumbents who were about to be kicked out because of the global backlash against inflation, is Trump himself.

You are still missing the point. Canada and the USA are not equals. Canada has an helluva lot more to lose here. Even if Trump tries to reconcile Carney cannot. Carney explicitly staked out the position that the era of economic integration with the USA is over and will never happen again. I am not defending Trump. Canada has a right to feel aggrieved. But eventually Canada has to reconcile with the USA and trade or face the prospect of becoming something in between the UK and Turkey (e.g., poor and becoming poorer by the day). That’s not a position that Canada can afford to find itself in. Frankly, the reconciliation needs to happen sooner rather than later and Carney cannot possibly reconcile the relationship while Trump is in office.

Everything you said is correct, but also irrelevant because this is a relationship of massively unequal parties where one side needs to other whole lot more. This isn’t about justice or righteousness. This is realpolitik, plain and simple. And Carney has no leverage or other options to win after the corner he’s backed himself into. Yes, he can make things difficult on Trump, as he should, but his people are about to suffer more over then next four years than any damage he can inflict on Trump. It is an asymmetrical position and Carney made it harder on himself to survive this fiasco.

If you think I’m wrong, tell me how Carney wins here.

I don’t think you understand the concept of suffering. Their incomes and standards of living may go down but that for many Canadians would be worth it to keep their nation rather than suffering the ignominy of becoming Trump’s 51st state.

And for many MAGA voters, their incomes and standard of living may go down, but it would be worth it to reclaim some sense, at least economically, of what used to be in America. But for something tells me you wouldn’t accept that position from MAGA voters…

Incidentally, that is exactly what MAGA voters are telling pollsters….

MAGA voters aren’t going to get back the days when being white and male made you dominant in society. Their wants are entirely different from the Canadian desire to be citizens of their own country.

[Anonymous]

I wish we could have Mark Carney as our American President. What a country we could be with someone smart, ethical and caring in a leadership position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

To respond to your question as a the PP and as a Canadian, we already accept that we will be hit hard by your egomaniac of a president. We will probably go into a recession, but we have smart people. Your country will be hit hard as well. Can’t you see that your historical allies are moving away from your country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

To respond to your question as a the PP and as a Canadian, we already accept that we will be hit hard by your egomaniac of a president. We will probably go into a recession, but we have smart people. Your country will be hit hard as well. Can’t you see that your historical allies are moving away from your country?

+1. If the USA continues to be hostile, Canada will strengthen its ties for China. The USA is rapidly approaching a state of having no true allies other than Russia. And Russia has never been a trustworthy ally to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Trump is an embarrassment.

Carney is awesome. He is astute and has just enough sense of humour to acknowledge that he hears stupid, but enough class not to necessarily engage it. He did it during the debates. I like him more daily.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

So Trump sits next to him and disrespects his country but saying they should be ours. What did you want Carney to do? I mean what's your plan? He never asked Mexico to be the 52nd state. He's actually not been messing with them other than deporting Mexicans in US out. So I do think Mexico lying low makes sense. But Canada - Trump isn't wrong suggesting how close we are - but the disrespect!

I'm not sure what you would have a country do. Just want to do everything to stick with Trump? Why? Because no other option can be as fruitful as partnering with the US? That's some serious lunacy. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone who treats me like shit after being my friend. Believe me, global alliances are shifting and somehow someway even if it takes 5 years of suffering, at least with their self respect intact, I guarantee you Canada will find a way out.

Even if they don't, they gave the respect of every other country likely wanting to do business with them. Don't count Carney out either - that guy is well versed in how the real world is run. There is no way you my friend are more knowledgeable than him in the field of economics. He's not just book smart either

So yeah I wouldn't worry about Canada. They are the envy of the world actually anytime Carney sits next to Trump, we Americans should all wince. Good God we look like fools! I'm an American and I wish I could move to Canada. We're all gonna suffer economically you do get that right? The reason you are suffering is the only difference. Canada did not cause this. China did not cause this. It's the US bringing this to ourselves and that will hurt us 100x more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

To respond to your question as a the PP and as a Canadian, we already accept that we will be hit hard by your egomaniac of a president. We will probably go into a recession, but we have smart people. Your country will be hit hard as well. Can’t you see that your historical allies are moving away from your country?

Yes, I can see the historical allies are moving away. I’m not bothered by it if it means that my preteen and teenage sons won’t be the future security guarantee (implicit or explicit) for those former allies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

So Trump sits next to him and disrespects his country but saying they should be ours. What did you want Carney to do? I mean what's your plan? He never asked Mexico to be the 52nd state. He's actually not been messing with them other than deporting Mexicans in US out. So I do think Mexico lying low makes sense. But Canada - Trump isn't wrong suggesting how close we are - but the disrespect!

I'm not sure what you would have a country do. Just want to do everything to stick with Trump? Why? Because no other option can be as fruitful as partnering with the US? That's some serious lunacy. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone who treats me like shit after being my friend. Believe me, global alliances are shifting and somehow someway even if it takes 5 years of suffering, at least with their self respect intact, I guarantee you Canada will find a way out.

Even if they don't, they gave the respect of every other country likely wanting to do business with them. Don't count Carney out either - that guy is well versed in how the real world is run. There is no way you my friend are more knowledgeable than him in the field of economics. He's not just book smart either

So yeah I wouldn't worry about Canada. They are the envy of the world actually anytime Carney sits next to Trump, we Americans should all wince. Good God we look like fools! I'm an American and I wish I could move to Canada. We're all gonna suffer economically you do get that right? The reason you are suffering is the only difference. Canada did not cause this. China did not cause this. It's the US bringing this to ourselves and that will hurt us 100x more.

I’m sorry, but this is some Aaron Sorkin fantasy land stuff. You sound like an inverse MAGA voter: “the dear leader Carney will just figure it out.” Global trade is the ultimate prisoner’s dilemma. How do you get worldwide cooperation when everybody is incentivized to pursue their own self interest at the expense of others? For the past 30 years the obvious answer was that America would be the balancing account. Trump, tapping into sentiment that predates him within the American electorate, has said no more of that. The Euros tried to solve the issue with the common currency/trade zone + tight fiscal rules, but that effort mostly fell flat as their economy was left in the dust and extremely vulnerable to Russia. So how do you propose solving the world’s oldest problem beyond “where there is a will there is a way” children’s fantasies? This reminds me of that email that Donald Rumsfeld sent his staffer late at night asking why he hadn’t yet solved Middle East peace and the Israel/Palestine conflict. Good luck!

Being the envy of the world, handling yourself gracefully, playing the part doesn’t pay the bills, even if it makes people feel good. Simply wanting to find a way out of this in five years won’t do the trick either.

Really hard choices are going to have to be made by Canada, none of them particularly desirable. The goal should be to advocate for the Canadian people’s interests while preserving maximum optionality. Carney has muscularly done the former but at the expense of the latter. If you guys want to salivate over such obviously foolish leadership because it feels good to stand up to Trump, so be it. But stop trying to sell the rest of us on some West Wing baby boomer fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

To respond to your question as a the PP and as a Canadian, we already accept that we will be hit hard by your egomaniac of a president. We will probably go into a recession, but we have smart people. Your country will be hit hard as well. Can’t you see that your historical allies are moving away from your country?

Yes, I can see the historical allies are moving away. I’m not bothered by it if it means that my preteen and teenage sons won’t be the future security guarantee (implicit or explicit) for those former allies.

Your sons are planning to join the army? And you'd rather they be the goosestepping "future security guarantees" for white fake-Christian nationalists who don't want other Americans to vote or live their lives in peace?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

To respond to your question as a the PP and as a Canadian, we already accept that we will be hit hard by your egomaniac of a president. We will probably go into a recession, but we have smart people. Your country will be hit hard as well. Can’t you see that your historical allies are moving away from your country?

Yes, I can see the historical allies are moving away. I’m not bothered by it if it means that my preteen and teenage sons won’t be the future security guarantee (implicit or explicit) for those former allies.

It also means Canadian/German/British/French sons and preteen sons won't be available to fight when the US is hit again. And the US has so many enemies this is inevitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

So Trump sits next to him and disrespects his country but saying they should be ours. What did you want Carney to do? I mean what's your plan? He never asked Mexico to be the 52nd state. He's actually not been messing with them other than deporting Mexicans in US out. So I do think Mexico lying low makes sense. But Canada - Trump isn't wrong suggesting how close we are - but the disrespect!

I'm not sure what you would have a country do. Just want to do everything to stick with Trump? Why? Because no other option can be as fruitful as partnering with the US? That's some serious lunacy. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone who treats me like shit after being my friend. Believe me, global alliances are shifting and somehow someway even if it takes 5 years of suffering, at least with their self respect intact, I guarantee you Canada will find a way out.

Even if they don't, they gave the respect of every other country likely wanting to do business with them. Don't count Carney out either - that guy is well versed in how the real world is run. There is no way you my friend are more knowledgeable than him in the field of economics. He's not just book smart either

So yeah I wouldn't worry about Canada. They are the envy of the world actually anytime Carney sits next to Trump, we Americans should all wince. Good God we look like fools! I'm an American and I wish I could move to Canada. We're all gonna suffer economically you do get that right? The reason you are suffering is the only difference. Canada did not cause this. China did not cause this. It's the US bringing this to ourselves and that will hurt us 100x more.

I’m sorry, but this is some Aaron Sorkin fantasy land stuff. You sound like an inverse MAGA voter: “the dear leader Carney will just figure it out.” Global trade is the ultimate prisoner’s dilemma. How do you get worldwide cooperation when everybody is incentivized to pursue their own self interest at the expense of others? For the past 30 years the obvious answer was that America would be the balancing account. Trump, tapping into sentiment that predates him within the American electorate, has said no more of that. The Euros tried to solve the issue with the common currency/trade zone + tight fiscal rules, but that effort mostly fell flat as their economy was left in the dust and extremely vulnerable to Russia. So how do you propose solving the world’s oldest problem beyond “where there is a will there is a way” children’s fantasies? This reminds me of that email that Donald Rumsfeld sent his staffer late at night asking why he hadn’t yet solved Middle East peace and the Israel/Palestine conflict. Good luck!

Being the envy of the world, handling yourself gracefully, playing the part doesn’t pay the bills, even if it makes people feel good. Simply wanting to find a way out of this in five years won’t do the trick either.

Really hard choices are going to have to be made by Canada, none of them particularly desirable. The goal should be to advocate for the Canadian people’s interests while preserving maximum optionality. Carney has muscularly done the former but at the expense of the latter. If you guys want to salivate over such obviously foolish leadership because it feels good to stand up to Trump, so be it. But stop trying to sell the rest of us on some West Wing baby boomer fantasy.

Brilliant nealpolitik. Trump wants to burn the USA down so we should just help him do it faster because it's unstoppable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

So Trump sits next to him and disrespects his country but saying they should be ours. What did you want Carney to do? I mean what's your plan? He never asked Mexico to be the 52nd state. He's actually not been messing with them other than deporting Mexicans in US out. So I do think Mexico lying low makes sense. But Canada - Trump isn't wrong suggesting how close we are - but the disrespect!

I'm not sure what you would have a country do. Just want to do everything to stick with Trump? Why? Because no other option can be as fruitful as partnering with the US? That's some serious lunacy. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone who treats me like shit after being my friend. Believe me, global alliances are shifting and somehow someway even if it takes 5 years of suffering, at least with their self respect intact, I guarantee you Canada will find a way out.

Even if they don't, they gave the respect of every other country likely wanting to do business with them. Don't count Carney out either - that guy is well versed in how the real world is run. There is no way you my friend are more knowledgeable than him in the field of economics. He's not just book smart either

So yeah I wouldn't worry about Canada. They are the envy of the world actually anytime Carney sits next to Trump, we Americans should all wince. Good God we look like fools! I'm an American and I wish I could move to Canada. We're all gonna suffer economically you do get that right? The reason you are suffering is the only difference. Canada did not cause this. China did not cause this. It's the US bringing this to ourselves and that will hurt us 100x more.

I’m sorry, but this is some Aaron Sorkin fantasy land stuff. You sound like an inverse MAGA voter: “the dear leader Carney will just figure it out.” Global trade is the ultimate prisoner’s dilemma. How do you get worldwide cooperation when everybody is incentivized to pursue their own self interest at the expense of others? For the past 30 years the obvious answer was that America would be the balancing account. Trump, tapping into sentiment that predates him within the American electorate, has said no more of that. The Euros tried to solve the issue with the common currency/trade zone + tight fiscal rules, but that effort mostly fell flat as their economy was left in the dust and extremely vulnerable to Russia. So how do you propose solving the world’s oldest problem beyond “where there is a will there is a way” children’s fantasies? This reminds me of that email that Donald Rumsfeld sent his staffer late at night asking why he hadn’t yet solved Middle East peace and the Israel/Palestine conflict. Good luck!

Being the envy of the world, handling yourself gracefully, playing the part doesn’t pay the bills, even if it makes people feel good. Simply wanting to find a way out of this in five years won’t do the trick either.

Really hard choices are going to have to be made by Canada, none of them particularly desirable. The goal should be to advocate for the Canadian people’s interests while preserving maximum optionality. Carney has muscularly done the former but at the expense of the latter. If you guys want to salivate over such obviously foolish leadership because it feels good to stand up to Trump, so be it. But stop trying to sell the rest of us on some West Wing baby boomer fantasy.

The one with a fantasy is Trump. The rest of the world will continue to trade and the US will go the way of Russia and North Korea. The world does fine without trading with these countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean why would Carney want to put his eggs in one basket that Canada has always done w US? It's obvious he can't trust Trump and this is an ideal time to go find other partners. He's negotiating from a position of strength in that he will try to make do with what he can from Trump but what he can't get he shouldn't have to beg. There is no corner as you suggest he's against - if Trump fails to partner so be it. Canada finds another way. I say this as an American. I think that guy is the bomb, I am so jealous Canada has him as a leader. Nobody should want to be the partner of the US while Trump and GOP are in office. While you need us, diversifying to not needing us is the best thing for our neighbor.

There are no other partners. If you run trade deficits and are not a reserve currency, you have two limiting options: (a) fiscal discipline (reduced social welfare payments) or (b) an accelerating economic death at the hands of inflation (UK/Turkey). Neither is a great outcome. Thus, no other country in the world is looking to run sustained trade deficits and sustained trade deficits are deeply unpopular politically throughout the world. The USA was the only game in town and now it is gone.

He could theoretically thread a needle like Australia and rely on commodity export to China for a trade surplus, but Canadian greens aren’t there for him. Yes, this all plays well on TV and it’s a great release to see him stand up to Trump, but eventually you have to govern and he’s put himself in a tough spot. Not one of strength.

As for as not needing us: no, you are just wrong. Nobody is going to ship components to Canada just to assemble them there and then ship finished product back to foreign markets. The logistical+labor costs make no sense. The advantage of was lower labor costs that give access to America’s market.

Hey dude, did you type this response into an AI response? Or is this JD Vance? Your American self-centered view will be dismantled soon enough.

Ok, explain to me how Canada is going to come out of this in even decent shape? This isn’t about an American self centered view but rather the simple reality that Canada finds itself in.

Y’all are salivating over how great this guy is when we’re less than 45 days into this crisis. Ultimately, the judgment of crisis will not be on posture and one-liners but on outcomes. So what is the great alternative path that Carney is going to deliver?

To respond to your question as a the PP and as a Canadian, we already accept that we will be hit hard by your egomaniac of a president. We will probably go into a recession, but we have smart people. Your country will be hit hard as well. Can’t you see that your historical allies are moving away from your country?

Yes, I can see the historical allies are moving away. I’m not bothered by it if it means that my preteen and teenage sons won’t be the future security guarantee (implicit or explicit) for those former allies.

LOL. So you’re going to take away their freedoms and livelihood? Ya’ll are crazy. They could be part of US’s service economy and now they’re going to screw tiny screws.