How many women here divorced primarily due to imbalanced, unsustainable home workload?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

DP. Is it idiosyncratic to want an adult to clean their poop out of the toilet bowl? OK then!!!

Let me explain something to you sweetheart. Taking care of a house and children takes work. Time and effort. It is not an idiosyncratic hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread sadly makes me realize I’m at least not alone in being dismayed and hurt by my DH since we had a baby last year. Any attempts to discuss division of labor and, heaven forbid, him taking responsibility for ordering one of the many things our child needs lead to defensiveness, criticism, and, lately, name calling and downright nastiness. I recently got screamed at and called horrible things for saying we need to make dinner earlier when our kid was crying out of hunger since he was late getting it started (again). Why are men like this? Maybe I need to get out before we suffer much longer.

Explain...was he for example making dinner at 5:30pm and you told him he should have made it at 5 pm? Without a time machine, he couldn't do that. While he is actually in the process of making that evenings dinner is obviously not the time to nag him and criticize him about it.

Nothing in PP's post says that there was any "nagging" or criticizing.

It's right there in her post. No she didn't use that word.but that's probably what happened.. She can clarify why she hadn't made.the child dinner on time either, or, if she knew dinner was.late, why she didn't give rlthe.crying child a snack like other posters said

Again, there is nothing in the post that says that PP "nagged" (a misogynistic word choice) or criticized. You can speculate that "that's probably what happened," but that's just you making assumptions about PP.

I get to interpret what.inread here as I see fit. You don't get to control other.people. if you disagree that's fine with.me.

You sound like a peach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Why do you think marriages were satisfactory? My grandmother was miserable and had a massive anxiety problem because of the demands placed on her, but it was a time when there were zero other options for women.

Women have options now and can demand better.

I expect that my H will prioritize our marriage and family above everything else. And that means being a fully functioning partner, and maintaining a minimum of the same standard he holds himself to at work. If, at work, he is able to accomplish tasks on time and to completion, not pawn his work off on anyone else, and clean up after himself, I expect the same behavior at home. To do any less is a clear message that he respects and values his colleagues more than his family, and that is not acceptable to me.

I do not believe the job belong to whoever “cares” about it. It’s not about caring about the dishes. It’s about caring for your partner and your family, and wanting to do the absolute best by them.

People who do not hold themselves to this standard, who cannot treat their family with value and respect, should not get married nor have children. No one is forcing these men to get married, and if they prefer to be selfish and think only of themselves, they are free to remain single.

While I agree with you, many times it does boil down to one partner "caring" sooner about something. The dishes will eventually bother my husband, just not as soon as they bother me. He rejects my assertion they need to be done after every meal.

Your assertion is literally false. Dishes don't need to be done after every meal. You want them done after every meal, but it is clearly not a necessity. No wonder you are having issues with this stuff.

So did you discuss all these.things before marriage? Did you screen potential husband's for diligence and responsibility in terms of doing housework?

After how many meals do dishes need to be done?

Or do they never need to be done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

DP. Is it idiosyncratic to want an adult to clean their poop out of the toilet bowl? OK then!!!

Let me explain something to you sweetheart. Taking care of a house and children takes work. Time and effort. It is not an idiosyncratic hobby.

You didn't respond when I asked.you how and.why you picked this guy in the first.plsce. maybe you didn't see where I asked.you that.
Surely this guy you are with was a huge slob when you were dating him right? Did you ever see him clean a toilet before you got married? What about all your you
other complaints? Let me explain something to you ma'amyou and only you picked this guy and you knew he was a.slob when you decided to have kids with him. You are not a.victim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Why do you think marriages were satisfactory? My grandmother was miserable and had a massive anxiety problem because of the demands placed on her, but it was a time when there were zero other options for women.

Women have options now and can demand better.

I expect that my H will prioritize our marriage and family above everything else. And that means being a fully functioning partner, and maintaining a minimum of the same standard he holds himself to at work. If, at work, he is able to accomplish tasks on time and to completion, not pawn his work off on anyone else, and clean up after himself, I expect the same behavior at home. To do any less is a clear message that he respects and values his colleagues more than his family, and that is not acceptable to me.

I do not believe the job belong to whoever “cares” about it. It’s not about caring about the dishes. It’s about caring for your partner and your family, and wanting to do the absolute best by them.

People who do not hold themselves to this standard, who cannot treat their family with value and respect, should not get married nor have children. No one is forcing these men to get married, and if they prefer to be selfish and think only of themselves, they are free to remain single.

While I agree with you, many times it does boil down to one partner "caring" sooner about something. The dishes will eventually bother my husband, just not as soon as they bother me. He rejects my assertion they need to be done after every meal.

Your assertion is literally false. Dishes don't need to be done after every meal. You want them done after every meal, but it is clearly not a necessity. No wonder you are having issues with this stuff.

So did you discuss all these.things before marriage? Did you screen potential husband's for diligence and responsibility in terms of doing housework?

After how many meals do dishes need to be done?

Or do they never need to be done?

What do you think? Are you in agreement with your spouse about that? Why don't.you know the answer to that question?

The pp is arguing with her spouse from a false premise. How often the dishes need.to be done is up to the people involved. If you use paper.plates or go out to eat, the answer is never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

DP. Is it idiosyncratic to want an adult to clean their poop out of the toilet bowl? OK then!!!

Let me explain something to you sweetheart. Taking care of a house and children takes work. Time and effort. It is not an idiosyncratic hobby.

You didn't respond when I asked.you how and.why you picked this guy in the first.plsce. maybe you didn't see where I asked.you that.
Surely this guy you are with was a huge slob when you were dating him right? Did you ever see him clean a toilet before you got married? What about all your you
other complaints? Let me explain something to you ma'amyou and only you picked this guy and you knew he was a.slob when you decided to have kids with him. You are not a.victim

So women have no right to discuss this issue or criticize men because they are dumb sl*ts who asked for it, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread sadly makes me realize I’m at least not alone in being dismayed and hurt by my DH since we had a baby last year. Any attempts to discuss division of labor and, heaven forbid, him taking responsibility for ordering one of the many things our child needs lead to defensiveness, criticism, and, lately, name calling and downright nastiness. I recently got screamed at and called horrible things for saying we need to make dinner earlier when our kid was crying out of hunger since he was late getting it started (again). Why are men like this? Maybe I need to get out before we suffer much longer.

Explain...was he for example making dinner at 5:30pm and you told him he should have made it at 5 pm? Without a time machine, he couldn't do that. While he is actually in the process of making that evenings dinner is obviously not the time to nag him and criticize him about it.

Nothing in PP's post says that there was any "nagging" or criticizing.

It's right there in her post. No she didn't use that word.but that's probably what happened.. She can clarify why she hadn't made.the child dinner on time either, or, if she knew dinner was.late, why she didn't give rlthe.crying child a snack like other posters said

Again, there is nothing in the post that says that PP "nagged" (a misogynistic word choice) or criticized. You can speculate that "that's probably what happened," but that's just you making assumptions about PP.

I get to interpret what.inread here as I see fit. You don't get to control other.people. if you disagree that's fine with.me.

You sound like a peach.

better
that
than a beach

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

DP. Is it idiosyncratic to want an adult to clean their poop out of the toilet bowl? OK then!!!

Let me explain something to you sweetheart. Taking care of a house and children takes work. Time and effort. It is not an idiosyncratic hobby.

You didn't respond when I asked.you how and.why you picked this guy in the first.plsce. maybe you didn't see where I asked.you that.
Surely this guy you are with was a huge slob when you were dating him right? Did you ever see him clean a toilet before you got married? What about all your you
other complaints? Let me explain something to you ma'amyou and only you picked this guy and you knew he was a.slob when you decided to have kids with him. You are not a.victim

So women have no right to discuss this issue or criticize men because they are dumb sl*ts who asked for it, right?

I'm sorry, do you see anywhere that I said that in the quoted post? You can criticize whoever you want. .But why are.yih calling these poor.womsn those.awful.misogynistic names?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

DP. Is it idiosyncratic to want an adult to clean their poop out of the toilet bowl? OK then!!!

Let me explain something to you sweetheart. Taking care of a house and children takes work. Time and effort. It is not an idiosyncratic hobby.

You didn't respond when I asked.you how and.why you picked this guy in the first.plsce. maybe you didn't see where I asked.you that.
Surely this guy you are with was a huge slob when you were dating him right? Did you ever see him clean a toilet before you got married? What about all your you
other complaints? Let me explain something to you ma'amyou and only you picked this guy and you knew he was a.slob when you decided to have kids with him. You are not a.victim

So women have no right to discuss this issue or criticize men because they are dumb sl*ts who asked for it, right?

I'm sorry, do you see anywhere that I said that in the quoted post? You can criticize whoever you want. .But why are.yih calling these poor.womsn those.awful.misogynistic names?

Your “concern trolling” makes me sick. You know the PP was sarcastically calling out YOUR misogynistic postings. You aren’t fooling anyone.

You do this in other threads, I’ve noticed. Your writing “style” is quite unique, with the random periods in between words and the same misspellings. Another consistency in every thread you post in: your red-pill misogyny. Really wish you’d go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not really getting a sense of how these marriages, especially long term ones, evolved from what originally were satisfactory relationships into intolerable ones. All these posts are pretty much "I've been married for 10 15 or 20 years" to this guy who is useless around the house, doesn't meet my expectations, and never did.

The wives seem to be saying that not only do they place a very high priority on having a very clean and organized home and.family life. It has to be clean and organized in a particular often idiosyncratic way. The husband is also required to share that same sense of priority. Further, the wife's expectation seems to be that the husband must contribute exactly the same level of effort, passion and commitment as the wife determines is required.

It's almost as if all these expectations were created by attending some kind of women's study classes in college, or discussions with third wave feminists, or assumed as the default, but we're never actually discussed, much less negotiated, with their husbands at any stage of the relationships. No, demands aren't negotiations or discussions.

Everyone is entitled to set priorities as they see fit. However, it is unrealistic to assume your partner will have the same priorities or the same investment in fulfilling them.

Basically the job, whatever it is, belongs to the person who cares the most about it. Getting angry that your spouse simply doesn't care as much as you think he should about living in a dirty house is not only unrealistic, it misunderstands the real issue, which in all these cases seems to be about the frustrated spouses sense of lack of ability to control her lazy spouses behaviors. Well that's not something you are ever going to be able to do. And you shouldn't be angry about it. The answer to a spouse who won't clean the house isn't to get divorced, it's to clean it.yourself or hire it out. Don't pretend you were unaware he was a slob when you married him. You married him for other reasons and you know it.

Can you give me an example of this you have seen on here?

There are.msny. In fact, please tell us from your own experience, have you ever criticized your.spouse or redid any chore he did because it didn't.meet.your particular standards? Please.probkde your own examples.

I asked you if you had seen it in this thread, but sure, here is an example: once I told my husband not to wash wash cloths with dryer sheets because it irritated my face. He had no problem doing it. I cannot think of another example where I asked him to do something differently, but I will say that my husband does at least his fair share of housework so maybe he just has higher standards than most men who whine about their “idiosyncratic” wives.

What do you mean? There are.msny threads where the wife complains about the way a man does housework. In this thread one complained he didn't.do the dishes enough, another that he didn't make the babies dinner on time, another that the toilet was.dierty and so on. Can you read?

Okay so by ”idiosyncratic” you mean “normal.” I suspected as much but wasn’t sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread sadly makes me realize I’m at least not alone in being dismayed and hurt by my DH since we had a baby last year. Any attempts to discuss division of labor and, heaven forbid, him taking responsibility for ordering one of the many things our child needs lead to defensiveness, criticism, and, lately, name calling and downright nastiness. I recently got screamed at and called horrible things for saying we need to make dinner earlier when our kid was crying out of hunger since he was late getting it started (again). Why are men like this? Maybe I need to get out before we suffer much longer.

If you're being screamed at and called horrible things, it sounds like it's time to leave. What kind of horrible things?

Dinner at our house is always late, so we give the kid a healthy snack beforehand. Something simple like cheese or bread.

He calls me the b word, crazy, things like that. It escalates to no one would want to deal with you and even worse things. I tried to give her a snack though. Good idea. His dinner was bumping up in her bedtime so I was patient as long as I could be. He’s often late so I have ended up doing most dinners which is stressful on me. I tried to give him space and it was so disappointing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I quit my job in basically that situation. It came down to one or the other and he was never going to make the professional changes. We were both in biglaw.

I don't get this Biglaw starts at 215k these days. So both of you were making atleast 500k, no.

With 100k in house help, you can pretty much outsource 75% of stuff. Why quit?

Things you can not outsource:

Mental accounting of you children. So, who reads the school emails and puts the necessary dates in the calendar? Who lines up day camps for the days they are off school? Who notices it's book fair week and puts money in the backpack? Who remembers the 5 year old needs a snack packed EVERY day? Who keeps track of what size clothing each of the kids wears? Who cleans out the drawers? Who buys the new clothes? Who makes sure they fit? Who figures out what to do with outgrown clothing? Who pays attention to summer camp registration? When it that? What weeks are we going on vacation? What week is their favorite camp held that they don't want to miss? When is the sign up for basketball? Do they need a well visit scheduled? Dentist? When was the last time we had a date night, I should book a sitter. Christmas is looming, time to start tracking what things the kids like and would enjoy. Time to book the special events and start planning visits and doing the gift buying.

AND ON AND ON.

You can outsource laundry and cleaning, sure. Food shopping, sort of. Cooking, maybe if you are very rich. But their is day to day minutia of running a house and having children that is NOT outsourceable, that often falls to moms. We are not better at this, but culturally we have been conditioned to do it. I just had a dad this morning, who is a lawyer, tell me he can't keep up with the school emails. It is not that hard to read the school emails! Do you ignore emails from co-workers? No, you read them, pull out what you need and delete. These are the same skills.

If you could outsource all of this, you are acknowledging that doing these things is A JOB, correct? A job that should pay money, right? So why is it only the mom's job? Men are capable, they just opt out. Women are screaming at the top of their lungs that they can't do it all and are desperate for help. And many men (not all!) will go rake the yard and then ask for a pat on the back. Do you see how that didn't address a single piece of the daily minutia?

Yes! All of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread sadly makes me realize I’m at least not alone in being dismayed and hurt by my DH since we had a baby last year. Any attempts to discuss division of labor and, heaven forbid, him taking responsibility for ordering one of the many things our child needs lead to defensiveness, criticism, and, lately, name calling and downright nastiness. I recently got screamed at and called horrible things for saying we need to make dinner earlier when our kid was crying out of hunger since he was late getting it started (again). Why are men like this? Maybe I need to get out before we suffer much longer.

Explain...was he for example making dinner at 5:30pm and you told him he should have made it at 5 pm? Without a time machine, he couldn't do that. While he is actually in the process of making that evenings dinner is obviously not the time to nag him and criticize him about it.

Nothing in PP's post says that there was any "nagging" or criticizing.

It's right there in her post. No she didn't use that word.but that's probably what happened.. She can clarify why she hadn't made.the child dinner on time either, or, if she knew dinner was.late, why she didn't give rlthe.crying child a snack like other posters said

Again, there is nothing in the post that says that PP "nagged" (a misogynistic word choice) or criticized. You can speculate that "that's probably what happened," but that's just you making assumptions about PP.

I get to interpret what.inread here as I see fit. You don't get to control other.people. if you disagree that's fine with.me.

You sound like a peach.

better
that
than a beach

I’m sorry that no woman has ever wanted to touch your penis. That must be frustrating and hurtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of this is just how hard kids are. Dh and I both were hard working, very clean and loved to cook. 3 kids, tons of promotions later, much larger house and we just cannot keep up. I do 5x more than I did before and Dh is still doing the same. He can’t juggle the way I can. I can’t fault him. He’s wonderful, great father, great husband. I still feel like I’m drowning. Women just can’t have it all. I feel lied to.

I’m constantly shocked at how messy my life and house is. No matter how early I start shoving everyone out the door, we’re always late. The playroom is always messy, there’s constantly food all over the floor

I do a ton more and try not to feel upset about it. I will say that I WANT more than Dh does though. I need the great vacations, wonderful holidays, parties that we throw. and the kids really want that stuff too. Like the kids want birthday parties, decorated house for Christmas, mom showing up to volunteer at their classes all the time.

That's why I stopped at two kids and severely limited the decorating and vacations. We take one vacation a year, I don ' have the energy to plan a trip to a Caribbean resort or Europe.