Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

You might want to do some reading on why Jordan and Egypt hasn't given Palestinians living there the option to integrate into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Or maybe read up on how Palestinians pushed Lebanon into civil war. They keep proving over and over again that they are incapable of peacefully integrating into anyone's society.

Palestinians were never offered a path to Israeli citizenship. Whoever talks about peaceful integration into Israeli society is lying.

Oh yes, the people who want to destroy Israel and kill Jews - why haven't they been fully integrated into Israel? It's such a mystery!

Why do you think Egypt hasn't offered them Egyptian citizenship? Can you answer that question without somehow blaming Israel?

Egypt hasn’t offered them Egyptian citizenship because it’s their position, like the 100+ countries who have attempted to secure a U.N. ceasefire resolution over the past few months (and dozens of other U.S. blocked resolutions over the past several decades), that their rightful place is their ancestral homeland that Israel continues to encroach upon.

Egypt believes, like many, many other countries, that to offer them citizenship is to absolve Israel of what should be its responsibility to resolve the ongoing, decades long conflict through concessions.

It sounds like you and several others here believe in the stereotype that Palestinians are all inherently and unavoidably disposed to behave a certain way. It’s sadly ironic that one group that has created an entire culture around battling others for stereotyping them is so content to stereotype other groups.

Oh please. They don't want the kinds of people who do 10.7 type things to flood their country any more than anyone else does. They can couch it in terms of not sanctioning Israel's existence - except they have relations with Israel. And they know well that they are better off with Israel being Israel than anyone else taking over that land.

I don't believe Palestinians are inherently violent - but I do believe that the Palestinians who commit these violent acts ruin any chance for everyone else. They hide among civilians - how is anyone supposed to tell them apart from the "peaceful" Palestinians who don't support that "intifada intifada" "by any means necessary" " no two state solution" sort of rhetoric and behavior.

Can you point me to Palestinian orgs that are calling for peace right now? Because I see a lot of Jews and Israelis who want peace - and I'm just not seeing that reciprocated a lot of places. I see calls for ceasefires - but the people calling for a ceasefire are the same ones chanting "intifada intifada," so we know what that's about.

They don’t hide among civilians though. Hamas specifically built the tunnels away from civilians so that their stockpiles don’t get destroyed by Israel.

They very much do hide among civilians. The tunnels are for transporting weapons, contraband, supplies, kidnapped hostages, moving people that the IDF is looking for. But otherwise they do hide among civilians, they fire rockets and shoot at IDF from inside residential areas, from inside refugee camps, hospitals and schools, they wear civilian clothing, and so on. There are mountains of evidence showing this.

+1
It's absolutely astounding that anyone would claim otherwise. Hamas uses their people as human shields, so that when IDF retaliates, Hamas can point to gruesome images of Palestinians being wounded or killed and gain sympathy - from idiots. Because idiots are the only people who actually believe them.

Riiiiight bruh. Just like Israel claimed there was a Hamas “command center” in Al Shifa hospital. Their evidence was so weak that it became the laughingstock of the internet. Then the Washington Post did a huge investigation/expose saying there was no evidence of a command center there after all!! The only idiots I see (well, more so sociopathic racists) are the ones who believe that the murder of over 20,000 Palestinians in less than 3 months is accidental.

Bingo. It’s intentional slaughter by a bunch of perverted sadists with no respect for the lives of anyone who isn’t also Jewish.

Nah. It’s war.

Horrible and messy, just like all of them.

The Pope has condemned Israel’s “terrorism” and unjustified attacks on civilians in Gaza. Israel is now a global pariah, and justifiably so. Its leadership and military are below contempt.

This is what he said. You are a reading a little bit too much into it.

War "is devasting the lives" of Israelis and Palestinians, he said.

"I embrace them all, particularly the Christian communities of Gaza and the entire Holy Land," the pope said. He again condemned the "abominable attack" Hamas militants carried out in Israel Oct. 7 and repeated his "urgent appeal for the liberation of those still being held hostage."

But Pope Francis also called on Israel to halt "the military operations with their appalling harvest of innocent civilian victims" and open corridors for the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza.

The enemy of the prince of peace, according to the Bible, is "the 'prince of this world,' who, by sowing the seeds of death, plots against the Lord, 'the lover of life,'" the pope told the crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

You might want to do some reading on why Jordan and Egypt hasn't given Palestinians living there the option to integrate into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Or maybe read up on how Palestinians pushed Lebanon into civil war. They keep proving over and over again that they are incapable of peacefully integrating into anyone's society.

Palestinians were never offered a path to Israeli citizenship. Whoever talks about peaceful integration into Israeli society is lying.

Oh yes, the people who want to destroy Israel and kill Jews - why haven't they been fully integrated into Israel? It's such a mystery!

Why do you think Egypt hasn't offered them Egyptian citizenship? Can you answer that question without somehow blaming Israel?

Egypt hasn’t offered them Egyptian citizenship because it’s their position, like the 100+ countries who have attempted to secure a U.N. ceasefire resolution over the past few months (and dozens of other U.S. blocked resolutions over the past several decades), that their rightful place is their ancestral homeland that Israel continues to encroach upon.

Egypt believes, like many, many other countries, that to offer them citizenship is to absolve Israel of what should be its responsibility to resolve the ongoing, decades long conflict through concessions.

It sounds like you and several others here believe in the stereotype that Palestinians are all inherently and unavoidably disposed to behave a certain way. It’s sadly ironic that one group that has created an entire culture around battling others for stereotyping them is so content to stereotype other groups.

Oh please. They don't want the kinds of people who do 10.7 type things to flood their country any more than anyone else does. They can couch it in terms of not sanctioning Israel's existence - except they have relations with Israel. And they know well that they are better off with Israel being Israel than anyone else taking over that land.

I don't believe Palestinians are inherently violent - but I do believe that the Palestinians who commit these violent acts ruin any chance for everyone else. They hide among civilians - how is anyone supposed to tell them apart from the "peaceful" Palestinians who don't support that "intifada intifada" "by any means necessary" " no two state solution" sort of rhetoric and behavior.

Can you point me to Palestinian orgs that are calling for peace right now? Because I see a lot of Jews and Israelis who want peace - and I'm just not seeing that reciprocated a lot of places. I see calls for ceasefires - but the people calling for a ceasefire are the same ones chanting "intifada intifada," so we know what that's about.

They don’t hide among civilians though. Hamas specifically built the tunnels away from civilians so that their stockpiles don’t get destroyed by Israel.

They very much do hide among civilians. The tunnels are for transporting weapons, contraband, supplies, kidnapped hostages, moving people that the IDF is looking for. But otherwise they do hide among civilians, they fire rockets and shoot at IDF from inside residential areas, from inside refugee camps, hospitals and schools, they wear civilian clothing, and so on. There are mountains of evidence showing this.

The mountains of evidence are from IDF . Hamas would be gone by now if they really blended with civilians. They are not hanging out in the living rooms having coffee or shooting rockets from classrooms or hospitals. It is Israeli propoganda used to justify killing civilians. They searched the hospital for days and found nothing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

[Anonymous]

I guess they don't want ANYONE else except Jews in Israel. Not even Armenians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

You might want to do some reading on why Jordan and Egypt hasn't given Palestinians living there the option to integrate into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Or maybe read up on how Palestinians pushed Lebanon into civil war. They keep proving over and over again that they are incapable of peacefully integrating into anyone's society.

Palestinians were never offered a path to Israeli citizenship. Whoever talks about peaceful integration into Israeli society is lying.

Oh yes, the people who want to destroy Israel and kill Jews - why haven't they been fully integrated into Israel? It's such a mystery!

Why do you think Egypt hasn't offered them Egyptian citizenship? Can you answer that question without somehow blaming Israel?

Egypt hasn’t offered them Egyptian citizenship because it’s their position, like the 100+ countries who have attempted to secure a U.N. ceasefire resolution over the past few months (and dozens of other U.S. blocked resolutions over the past several decades), that their rightful place is their ancestral homeland that Israel continues to encroach upon.

Egypt believes, like many, many other countries, that to offer them citizenship is to absolve Israel of what should be its responsibility to resolve the ongoing, decades long conflict through concessions.

It sounds like you and several others here believe in the stereotype that Palestinians are all inherently and unavoidably disposed to behave a certain way. It’s sadly ironic that one group that has created an entire culture around battling others for stereotyping them is so content to stereotype other groups.

Oh please. They don't want the kinds of people who do 10.7 type things to flood their country any more than anyone else does. They can couch it in terms of not sanctioning Israel's existence - except they have relations with Israel. And they know well that they are better off with Israel being Israel than anyone else taking over that land.

I don't believe Palestinians are inherently violent - but I do believe that the Palestinians who commit these violent acts ruin any chance for everyone else. They hide among civilians - how is anyone supposed to tell them apart from the "peaceful" Palestinians who don't support that "intifada intifada" "by any means necessary" " no two state solution" sort of rhetoric and behavior.

Can you point me to Palestinian orgs that are calling for peace right now? Because I see a lot of Jews and Israelis who want peace - and I'm just not seeing that reciprocated a lot of places. I see calls for ceasefires - but the people calling for a ceasefire are the same ones chanting "intifada intifada," so we know what that's about.

They don’t hide among civilians though. Hamas specifically built the tunnels away from civilians so that their stockpiles don’t get destroyed by Israel.

They very much do hide among civilians. The tunnels are for transporting weapons, contraband, supplies, kidnapped hostages, moving people that the IDF is looking for. But otherwise they do hide among civilians, they fire rockets and shoot at IDF from inside residential areas, from inside refugee camps, hospitals and schools, they wear civilian clothing, and so on. There are mountains of evidence showing this.

+1
It's absolutely astounding that anyone would claim otherwise. Hamas uses their people as human shields, so that when IDF retaliates, Hamas can point to gruesome images of Palestinians being wounded or killed and gain sympathy - from idiots. Because idiots are the only people who actually believe them.

If you can justify bombing civilians because a Hamas soldier bought bread from a bakery and picked up his nephew from a school once, you can justify killing anyone anywhere.

I bet we’ve all had arms lengths encounters with some unsavory militant group—even if all we did was buy something at a big department store.

Hamas members are banned by Hamas from communicating with their families because they believe Israel wiretaps Gazan calls. They use burner phones from Egypt or walkie talkies. This is largely why Israel has a hard time tracking them. Along with being a terrorist organization, they also do other UnIslamic things like drug /narcotics manufacturing and trafficking. A lot of the 10/7 terrorists were high on cheap cocaine and amphetamines and drug addiction is a huge problem in Gaza apparently .

Lots of doctors or pharmacists are apparently huge helps to Hamas whether by force or will and that could be why Israel is especially hard on hospitals . You can’t create self made rockets and pills without help from an expert or two who know how to make em.

[Anonymous]

Just gonna let this hang here:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

You might want to do some reading on why Jordan and Egypt hasn't given Palestinians living there the option to integrate into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Or maybe read up on how Palestinians pushed Lebanon into civil war. They keep proving over and over again that they are incapable of peacefully integrating into anyone's society.

Palestinians were never offered a path to Israeli citizenship. Whoever talks about peaceful integration into Israeli society is lying.

Oh yes, the people who want to destroy Israel and kill Jews - why haven't they been fully integrated into Israel? It's such a mystery!

Why do you think Egypt hasn't offered them Egyptian citizenship? Can you answer that question without somehow blaming Israel?

Egypt hasn’t offered them Egyptian citizenship because it’s their position, like the 100+ countries who have attempted to secure a U.N. ceasefire resolution over the past few months (and dozens of other U.S. blocked resolutions over the past several decades), that their rightful place is their ancestral homeland that Israel continues to encroach upon.

Egypt believes, like many, many other countries, that to offer them citizenship is to absolve Israel of what should be its responsibility to resolve the ongoing, decades long conflict through concessions.

It sounds like you and several others here believe in the stereotype that Palestinians are all inherently and unavoidably disposed to behave a certain way. It’s sadly ironic that one group that has created an entire culture around battling others for stereotyping them is so content to stereotype other groups.

Oh please. They don't want the kinds of people who do 10.7 type things to flood their country any more than anyone else does. They can couch it in terms of not sanctioning Israel's existence - except they have relations with Israel. And they know well that they are better off with Israel being Israel than anyone else taking over that land.

I don't believe Palestinians are inherently violent - but I do believe that the Palestinians who commit these violent acts ruin any chance for everyone else. They hide among civilians - how is anyone supposed to tell them apart from the "peaceful" Palestinians who don't support that "intifada intifada" "by any means necessary" " no two state solution" sort of rhetoric and behavior.

Can you point me to Palestinian orgs that are calling for peace right now? Because I see a lot of Jews and Israelis who want peace - and I'm just not seeing that reciprocated a lot of places. I see calls for ceasefires - but the people calling for a ceasefire are the same ones chanting "intifada intifada," so we know what that's about.

They don’t hide among civilians though. Hamas specifically built the tunnels away from civilians so that their stockpiles don’t get destroyed by Israel.

They very much do hide among civilians. The tunnels are for transporting weapons, contraband, supplies, kidnapped hostages, moving people that the IDF is looking for. But otherwise they do hide among civilians, they fire rockets and shoot at IDF from inside residential areas, from inside refugee camps, hospitals and schools, they wear civilian clothing, and so on. There are mountains of evidence showing this.

+1
It's absolutely astounding that anyone would claim otherwise. Hamas uses their people as human shields, so that when IDF retaliates, Hamas can point to gruesome images of Palestinians being wounded or killed and gain sympathy - from idiots. Because idiots are the only people who actually believe them.

If you can justify bombing civilians because a Hamas soldier bought bread from a bakery and picked up his nephew from a school once, you can justify killing anyone anywhere.

I bet we’ve all had arms lengths encounters with some unsavory militant group—even if all we did was buy something at a big department store.

Hamas members are banned by Hamas from communicating with their families because they believe Israel wiretaps Gazan calls. They use burner phones from Egypt or walkie talkies. This is largely why Israel has a hard time tracking them. Along with being a terrorist organization, they also do other UnIslamic things like drug /narcotics manufacturing and trafficking. A lot of the 10/7 terrorists were high on cheap cocaine and amphetamines and drug addiction is a huge problem in Gaza apparently .

Lots of doctors or pharmacists are apparently huge helps to Hamas whether by force or will and that could be why Israel is especially hard on hospitals . You can’t create self made rockets and pills without help from an expert or two who know how to make em.

No. Israel is "especially hard" on hospitals, universities and other structures of civilian life for one purpose only: to make Gaza unlivable. They don't want Gazans to have medical help. They don't want them to have hospitals. And they want to normalize destroying normally protected areas by deploying the "command center" nonsense a la Shifa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

You might want to do some reading on why Jordan and Egypt hasn't given Palestinians living there the option to integrate into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Or maybe read up on how Palestinians pushed Lebanon into civil war. They keep proving over and over again that they are incapable of peacefully integrating into anyone's society.

Palestinians were never offered a path to Israeli citizenship. Whoever talks about peaceful integration into Israeli society is lying.

Oh yes, the people who want to destroy Israel and kill Jews - why haven't they been fully integrated into Israel? It's such a mystery!

Why do you think Egypt hasn't offered them Egyptian citizenship? Can you answer that question without somehow blaming Israel?

Egypt hasn’t offered them Egyptian citizenship because it’s their position, like the 100+ countries who have attempted to secure a U.N. ceasefire resolution over the past few months (and dozens of other U.S. blocked resolutions over the past several decades), that their rightful place is their ancestral homeland that Israel continues to encroach upon.

Egypt believes, like many, many other countries, that to offer them citizenship is to absolve Israel of what should be its responsibility to resolve the ongoing, decades long conflict through concessions.

It sounds like you and several others here believe in the stereotype that Palestinians are all inherently and unavoidably disposed to behave a certain way. It’s sadly ironic that one group that has created an entire culture around battling others for stereotyping them is so content to stereotype other groups.

Oh please. They don't want the kinds of people who do 10.7 type things to flood their country any more than anyone else does. They can couch it in terms of not sanctioning Israel's existence - except they have relations with Israel. And they know well that they are better off with Israel being Israel than anyone else taking over that land.

I don't believe Palestinians are inherently violent - but I do believe that the Palestinians who commit these violent acts ruin any chance for everyone else. They hide among civilians - how is anyone supposed to tell them apart from the "peaceful" Palestinians who don't support that "intifada intifada" "by any means necessary" " no two state solution" sort of rhetoric and behavior.

Can you point me to Palestinian orgs that are calling for peace right now? Because I see a lot of Jews and Israelis who want peace - and I'm just not seeing that reciprocated a lot of places. I see calls for ceasefires - but the people calling for a ceasefire are the same ones chanting "intifada intifada," so we know what that's about.

They don’t hide among civilians though. Hamas specifically built the tunnels away from civilians so that their stockpiles don’t get destroyed by Israel.

They very much do hide among civilians. The tunnels are for transporting weapons, contraband, supplies, kidnapped hostages, moving people that the IDF is looking for. But otherwise they do hide among civilians, they fire rockets and shoot at IDF from inside residential areas, from inside refugee camps, hospitals and schools, they wear civilian clothing, and so on. There are mountains of evidence showing this.

The mountains of evidence are from IDF . Hamas would be gone by now if they really blended with civilians. They are not hanging out in the living rooms having coffee or shooting rockets from classrooms or hospitals. It is Israeli propoganda used to justify killing civilians. They searched the hospital for days and found nothing

Goodness.

Just take a gander at the CombatFootage subreddit on reddit

No Hamas in uniform. All of them very much shooting from hospitals and schools and mosques and living rooms. And this is what they posted themselves.

You are deluded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess they don't want ANYONE else except Jews in Israel. Not even Armenians.

It was muslim arabs who attacked and were arrested but nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they don't want ANYONE else except Jews in Israel. Not even Armenians.

It was muslim arabs who attacked and were arrested but nice try.

Lol no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

Tell us about the process, please!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they don't want ANYONE else except Jews in Israel. Not even Armenians.

It was muslim arabs who attacked and were arrested but nice try.

Lol no

Lol yea https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/crime-in-israel/article-779881

The Police confirmed that it received the letter and said that arrests were made on both sides - both Armenians and Muslims who allegedly carried out the attack. No one has been officially charged, the Police said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.