Challenge of In Laws regarding religion

[Anonymous]

Challenge of In Laws.....My husband and I have been together for over 15 years. He was raised Jewish and I was raised Catholic. We both feel we are in a similar place with regard to how we live our lives day-to-day and agree that it is okay that we got there along different paths, including religion. He describes himself as holding more of a cultural view and heritage of religion and , I describe it for myself as a personal spirituality that offers me a source of strength. Though we have our issues, we have a really solid and healthy relationship.

We have school-aged children and have decided we will raise with some awareness of religious traditions. Though husband recently shared that he thought that meant they would have bar/bat mitzvah and then decide what religion would be for them. Perhaps this misunderstanding is a resulting in this law challenge.

Husband's father is Jewish and his mother is Catholic. Both attend services/synagogue fairly often and being Jewish is very important to FIL. MIL never converted but attends services with FIL. (A side note but related... MIL placates FIL in all aspects of their relationship - religion, activities, travel, decision-making etc. My husband and I have discussed this dynamic and I clearly stated I would not be willing to replicate that component of his parents' relationship. Husband and I have also also discussed what components we don't wish to replicate form my parents' relationship!)

My in laws, whom we see 6-8 times a year, have made religion a large component of our visits. During a three day visit, the inlaws will say 1-2 prayers (e.g., friday night sabath), MIL gives gifts that are culturally specific, and my FIL will find multiple opportunities to say that a core component of Judaism is like - a book, a number, a person's actions. It makes me feel like he is trying to educate them, which I like. Though I feel it goes a bit beyond that and I feel less and less enthusiastic about our visits. The last few visits have been followed by comments to my husband about when will you chose a synagogue and comments to me like there are many with interfaith couples.

My parents live far away and are not very religious. We see them maybe once a year and rarely discuss religion or religious traditions.

While what they are doing is in keeping with my husband's and my ideas to expose them to both religions...it seems to be intensifying. I will also mention that last year husband, kids and I and the In laws all attended two cousins' bar/bat mitzvahs, most of which were lovely and also completely over the top parties that were more like wedding celebrations with middle schoolers. My in laws have suggested that maybe they'd help pay for a celebration, which my kid ate up. After these events and the offer, my children want to have bat mitzvahs. I explained we might have a coming of age ceremony and have a small birthday-like party - it would not be a huge affair. But not sure they'd foot (or I'd want them to pay) the bill for a non-religious coming of age celebration.

Has anyone else dealt with this in law challenge? How did you handle it?

[Anonymous]

I don't see any challenge here at all. I see grandparents sharing one aspect of their lives with you and their kids -- talk of religion and an offer to pay for bar mitzvahs.

What I do see is that you and your husband don't seem clear on how you each want to raise your kids spiritually (speaking of the confusion/assumptions about bar mitzvahs). If your kids are old enough to have a bar mitzvah, they are old enough, in my opinion, to have some true input into their own religious and spiritual exploration.

I say this as someone in a mixed Christian/Muslim marriage very similar to what you describe. We aren't heavy practitioners and feel more spiritual than religious. But that's what works for us. Our children deserve the opportunity to explore for themselves. Try starting there. Your inlaws won't matter so much....

[Anonymous]

You have 2 separate issues here, OP, and frankly the in-law issue is the less important of the two. I love that you have been so accepting of your in-laws' ham-handed (pun intended attempts to introduce Judaism into your kids' life, but now you and your DH have to decide once and for all whether you are raising Jewish children. Once you have made that decision together, you present a united front to both the kids and the in-laws.

The bar/bat mitzvah issue may be a good example to hash out, but really the question is are your kids Jewish[b]? If you can't say yes to that question, without equivocation or explanation, then it's not appropriate for them to become a bar/bat mitzvah. It's not just something you do just to expose your kids to Judaism as part of a multicultural upringing so they can one day decide for themselves. While of course all children should feel empowered to make their own religious decisions once they are old enough to do so, you really don't have your kids go through all of the steps to become a bar/bat mitzvah and participate in the sacred ritual of reading from the Torah if you do not consider them Jewish children, period. (This does not mean that you have to consider yourself Jewish, although see the next paragraph on that.)

Of course, the whole bar/bat mitzvah thing may be moot if your kids are older than about 4th grade and haven't started HEbrew school. It's not just something you decide to do and then it happens a few months later. You guys would have to join a temple, the kids would have to attend religious school 2-3 times a week for several years and learn how to read Hebrew, then have about a year of regular tutoring to prepare for their Torah reading and haftorah. Even before that, depending on the particular level of observance of the temple you attend, or plan to attend, your children may be required to go through the conversion process before being allowed to read from the Torah. Because you are not Jewish, your kids are not considered Jewish in the eyes of religious Jews. For a reform temple it may not matter, but for Conservative or Orthodox your child would probably have to convert, bathe in the mikvah, etc. This is not something to take lightly for you or your DH.

If your DH and/or your in-laws want the kids to become bar/bat mitzvot without actually agreeing that the kids are Jewish, or if they want to dangle the prospect of a flashy party in front of your kids in order to convince them to go through the ritual, I find that a bit offensive. If that's the case, they obviously care more about impressing the in-laws' friends and extended family than they do about the kids actually being Jewish, and I would not respect their opinion on this topic at all. I grew up going to a temple with a lot of people like that, and frankly it's enough to really turn someone off of Judaism.

So yeah, bottom line is that you need to figure this out with your DH. Your in-laws can drop all the comments they want, but it is up to you and DH to decide what religion your children will identify with. It's unfortunate that you guys seem to have misunderstood each other on this issue, but now is the time to get it all on the table and avoid any further misunderstanding. It sounds to me like you are not comfortable raising your children as 100% Jewish, and it sounds like you communicated that clearly to your DH in the past. Unless you are experiencing a change of heart, or you are interested in taking an Intro to Judaism class to see if you may have a change of heart, your DH needs to accept that and he needs to support you when it comes to his parents. You should NOT feel ganged up on about this, and your kids should not be bribed with a fancy party. Just tell your DH (and eventually your in-laws, if it comes to that) that you respect Judaism too much to make a mockery out of it by allowing non-Jewish children to read Torah.

Good luck -- this interfaith stuff is hard! Sorry if this message is convoluted, no time to proofread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have 2 separate issues here, OP, and frankly the in-law issue is the less important of the two. I love that you have been so accepting of your in-laws' ham-handed (pun intended attempts to introduce Judaism into your kids' life, but now you and your DH have to decide once and for all whether you are raising Jewish children. Once you have made that decision together, you present a united front to both the kids and the in-laws.

The bar/bat mitzvah issue may be a good example to hash out, but really the question is are your kids Jewish[b]? If you can't say yes to that question, without equivocation or explanation, then it's not appropriate for them to become a bar/bat mitzvah. It's not just something you do just to expose your kids to Judaism as part of a multicultural upringing so they can one day decide for themselves. While of course all children should feel empowered to make their own religious decisions once they are old enough to do so, you really don't have your kids go through all of the steps to become a bar/bat mitzvah and participate in the sacred ritual of reading from the Torah if you do not consider them Jewish children, period. (This does not mean that you have to consider yourself Jewish, although see the next paragraph on that.)

Of course, the whole bar/bat mitzvah thing may be moot if your kids are older than about 4th grade and haven't started HEbrew school. It's not just something you decide to do and then it happens a few months later. You guys would have to join a temple, the kids would have to attend religious school 2-3 times a week for several years and learn how to read Hebrew, then have about a year of regular tutoring to prepare for their Torah reading and haftorah. Even before that, depending on the particular level of observance of the temple you attend, or plan to attend, your children may be required to go through the conversion process before being allowed to read from the Torah. Because you are not Jewish, your kids are not considered Jewish in the eyes of religious Jews. For a reform temple it may not matter, but for Conservative or Orthodox your child would probably have to convert, bathe in the mikvah, etc. This is not something to take lightly for you or your DH.

If your DH and/or your in-laws want the kids to become bar/bat mitzvot without actually agreeing that the kids are Jewish, or if they want to dangle the prospect of a flashy party in front of your kids in order to convince them to go through the ritual, I find that a bit offensive. If that's the case, they obviously care more about impressing the in-laws' friends and extended family than they do about the kids actually being Jewish, and I would not respect their opinion on this topic at all. I grew up going to a temple with a lot of people like that, and frankly it's enough to really turn someone off of Judaism.

So yeah, bottom line is that you need to figure this out with your DH. Your in-laws can drop all the comments they want, but it is up to you and DH to decide what religion your children will identify with. It's unfortunate that you guys seem to have misunderstood each other on this issue, but now is the time to get it all on the table and avoid any further misunderstanding. It sounds to me like you are not comfortable raising your children as 100% Jewish, and it sounds like you communicated that clearly to your DH in the past. Unless you are experiencing a change of heart, or you are interested in taking an Intro to Judaism class to see if you may have a change of heart, your DH needs to accept that and he needs to support you when it comes to his parents. You should NOT feel ganged up on about this, and your kids should not be bribed with a fancy party. Just tell your DH (and eventually your in-laws, if it comes to that) that you respect Judaism too much to make a mockery out of it by allowing non-Jewish children to read Torah.

Good luck -- this interfaith stuff is hard! Sorry if this message is convoluted, no time to proofread

What this pp said. She hit the nail on the head with some really good advice.

[Anonymous]

The real issue here is between you and your husband. Do you want your kids to have Bar Mitzvahs. And, I have to tell you, that is a big issue even in a family that is all Jewish. It is a big issue in my family, and every single one of my relatives is Jewish. We argue about it all the time. So OP, I don't think you can really throw this back on your in-laws. This is a subject of debate. Bar Mitzvahs, as your recognize, are expensive. Preparation is time consuming. It requires a huge commitment. Ultimately it is up to you as parents to see that your 12/13 year old child does the work for this huge project.

That is something you and your DH have to decide, whether you are interfaith or Jewish.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure your kids are automatically considered Jewish. In Judiasm doesn't the religion come from the mother? Will your kids have to convert or something? Are they even allowed to have a bar mitzvah?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure your kids are automatically considered Jewish. In Judiasm doesn't the religion come from the mother? Will your kids have to convert or something? Are they even allowed to have a bar mitzvah?

It depends on the temple, but you don't just throw a bar mitzvah like a birthday party. There are lots and lots of steps required (Hebrew school, lessons, service etc) OPs inlaws have clearly not thought this out since ops Childers are not already in Hebrew school.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the input.
Especially, 3/15 6:02... for your kind words... I kinda knew that, but needed to "hear it spoken."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure your kids are automatically considered Jewish. In Judiasm doesn't the religion come from the mother? Will your kids have to convert or something? Are they even allowed to have a bar mitzvah?

I am not even sure how OP's husband is Jewish (in a religious, not necessarily cultural, sense) as his mother is a nonconverted Catholic. Guess I'm missing something here.

[Anonymous]

Ditto. Judaism follows the mother, not the father. This is how they were able to not recognize Ismael as Abraham's 1st born son. Seriously. Not looking for a fight. This is the thing...you can't be Jewish unless the blood comes from the mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure your kids are automatically considered Jewish. In Judiasm doesn't the religion come from the mother? Will your kids have to convert or something? Are they even allowed to have a bar mitzvah?

I am not even sure how OP's husband is Jewish (in a religious, not necessarily cultural, sense) as his mother is a nonconverted Catholic. Guess I'm missing something here.

Maybe OP's husband converted at some point?

[Anonymous]

In orthodox/strict communities, husband may not be considered Jewish because his mother is not. However, husband considers self Jewish and had Bar Mitzvah. It was very important for FIL that his kids be raised Jewish and MIL was supportive of it - I think in concept and also that is the nature of their relationship. MIL still has not converted though has attended synagogue for 25+ years. Husband talked about how he noticed that MIL was never invited to participate in ceremonies - she always said it never bothered her. MIL said that has changed in recent years. I suppose a new rabbi was more accepting, but am not sure.
Again, inlaws are both nice people overall. Husband talks about growing up and father rigid and mother acquiesced. Husband and I perceive that MIL does what is easiest for FIL and therefore her (he can be a pain and change seems very hard for him). So while sometimes it seems not a co-dependency mostly it works for them and their relationship. In any case, while religion fit into this category, MIL was open to raising kids Jewish and it supported the way they relate.