Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

Why is this America's problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

Why is this America's problem?

In someone's warped and deranged brain, it's the US's fault that Rome occupied Palestine 2000 years ago. In someone's warped and deranged brain, the US has been behind every single policy decision and every military action Israel has ever engaged in, including the completely imaginary ones that pro-Palestine advocates think happened, but didn't. Oh, but let's not forget the real reason they think it's America's problem, that being all of the massive, orchestrated propaganda effort by Iran and others, of "America and Israel, Great Satan, Little Satan" or whatever the f@ck that's supposed to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

The Palestinians have had many chances to have their own independent state in the post Ottoman era. There was the Peel Commission, which gave Arabs a state that was three times bigger than a proposed Jewish state. There was the UN partition of 1947, which gave them a state that stretched from Lebanon to the Negev. And there was the Oslo Accords, which created an independent Palestine out of the West Bank and Gaza with a land corridor connecting the two.

Think of all the countries that have been formed in the post-war era as Empires came to an end - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Kenya, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu and many more. In no case did independence arise without problems - think of the partition of India or the wars in Indochina. But invariably leaders arose to bring forth independence.

That never happened among Palestinians. Their leaders thrive on grievance and corruption. They offer no solutions. No compromises. For 80 years, Palestinians have resorted to terror - from Black September to murdering olympic athletes to hijacking airplanes to the atrocities of 10/7. They have caused civil war in Lebanon. They have murdered prime ministers and attempted coups in Jordan and Kuwait. And with Hamas, they have chosen to follow Islamic extremism. They are, as a people, utterly isolated. Only Iran uses them to stir things up in the Sunni world.

I fear that Palestinians have run out of options. After the massacres on 10/7, there is no support for an independent Palestine. Israel has turned even further to the right. Egypt is keeping that border wall closed - and the government certainly does not favor Hamas. There is no chance Jordan or Lebanon are stepping in to champion the Palestinian cause. And definitely not Saudi Arabia either.

I have yet to understand what Hamas was thinking when they invaded Israel. What was the end game? Because right now it is shaping up to be a historic catastrophe for Palestinians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

The Palestinians have had many chances to have their own independent state in the post Ottoman era. There was the Peel Commission, which gave Arabs a state that was three times bigger than a proposed Jewish state. There was the UN partition of 1947, which gave them a state that stretched from Lebanon to the Negev. And there was the Oslo Accords, which created an independent Palestine out of the West Bank and Gaza with a land corridor connecting the two.

Think of all the countries that have been formed in the post-war era as Empires came to an end - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Kenya, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu and many more. In no case did independence arise without problems - think of the partition of India or the wars in Indochina. But invariably leaders arose to bring forth independence.

That never happened among Palestinians. Their leaders thrive on grievance and corruption. They offer no solutions. No compromises. For 80 years, Palestinians have resorted to terror - from Black September to murdering olympic athletes to hijacking airplanes to the atrocities of 10/7. They have caused civil war in Lebanon. They have murdered prime ministers and attempted coups in Jordan and Kuwait. And with Hamas, they have chosen to follow Islamic extremism. They are, as a people, utterly isolated. Only Iran uses them to stir things up in the Sunni world.

I fear that Palestinians have run out of options. After the massacres on 10/7, there is no support for an independent Palestine. Israel has turned even further to the right. Egypt is keeping that border wall closed - and the government certainly does not favor Hamas. There is no chance Jordan or Lebanon are stepping in to champion the Palestinian cause. And definitely not Saudi Arabia either.

I have yet to understand what Hamas was thinking when they invaded Israel. What was the end game? Because right now it is shaping up to be a historic catastrophe for Palestinians

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

The Palestinians have had many chances to have their own independent state in the post Ottoman era. There was the Peel Commission, which gave Arabs a state that was three times bigger than a proposed Jewish state. There was the UN partition of 1947, which gave them a state that stretched from Lebanon to the Negev. And there was the Oslo Accords, which created an independent Palestine out of the West Bank and Gaza with a land corridor connecting the two.

Think of all the countries that have been formed in the post-war era as Empires came to an end - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Kenya, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu and many more. In no case did independence arise without problems - think of the partition of India or the wars in Indochina. But invariably leaders arose to bring forth independence.

That never happened among Palestinians. Their leaders thrive on grievance and corruption. They offer no solutions. No compromises. For 80 years, Palestinians have resorted to terror - from Black September to murdering olympic athletes to hijacking airplanes to the atrocities of 10/7. They have caused civil war in Lebanon. They have murdered prime ministers and attempted coups in Jordan and Kuwait. And with Hamas, they have chosen to follow Islamic extremism. They are, as a people, utterly isolated. Only Iran uses them to stir things up in the Sunni world.

I fear that Palestinians have run out of options. After the massacres on 10/7, there is no support for an independent Palestine. Israel has turned even further to the right. Egypt is keeping that border wall closed - and the government certainly does not favor Hamas. There is no chance Jordan or Lebanon are stepping in to champion the Palestinian cause. And definitely not Saudi Arabia either.

I have yet to understand what Hamas was thinking when they invaded Israel. What was the end game? Because right now it is shaping up to be a historic catastrophe for Palestinians

Oslo did not create an independent Palestine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

Why is this America's problem?

In someone's warped and deranged brain, it's the US's fault that Rome occupied Palestine 2000 years ago. In someone's warped and deranged brain, the US has been behind every single policy decision and every military action Israel has ever engaged in, including the completely imaginary ones that pro-Palestine advocates think happened, but didn't. Oh, but let's not forget the real reason they think it's America's problem, that being all of the massive, orchestrated propaganda effort by Iran and others, of "America and Israel, Great Satan, Little Satan" or whatever the f@ck that's supposed to be.

lol so angry so early in the year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Well, they seem to have the money and capability to fire thousands of rockets into central Israel (just celebrated NYE by firing tons of rockets). If there's a will, there's a way!

Twenty thousand dead, Gaza made unlivable by bombing and they STILL haven’t destroyed Hamas. IDF is either incompetent or not even trying.

Oh they are trying, trying to exterminate Palestinian civilians. Blood thirsty and trigger happy those idf.

None of that would be happening were it not for the blood thirsty actions of Hamas on October 7th. STFU and acknowledge it because you know it's true.

But it happened before Oct 7 all the time. So no.

Israeli bombing of Gaza on October 6th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on October 5th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on October 4th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on October 3rd: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on October 2nd: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on October 1st: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on September 30th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on September 29th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on September 28th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on September 27th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on September 26th: Didn't happen.
Israeli bombing of Gaza on September 25th: Didn't happen.

Seeing a pattern here? Stop lying, you POS Hamas shill.

Now do the West Bank

West bank what? All you might have there is specific, well-documented actions, like when IDF raided the Jenin camp where known senior Hamas extremists were hiding out. Otherwise the picture looks pretty much the same... Israeli bombing of West Bank on October 6th: Didn't happen. And so on.

Because expanded land theft, settler violence and IDF killing with impunity didn’t happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

The Palestinians have had many chances to have their own independent state in the post Ottoman era. There was the Peel Commission, which gave Arabs a state that was three times bigger than a proposed Jewish state. There was the UN partition of 1947, which gave them a state that stretched from Lebanon to the Negev. And there was the Oslo Accords, which created an independent Palestine out of the West Bank and Gaza with a land corridor connecting the two.

Think of all the countries that have been formed in the post-war era as Empires came to an end - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Kenya, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu and many more. In no case did independence arise without problems - think of the partition of India or the wars in Indochina. But invariably leaders arose to bring forth independence.

That never happened among Palestinians. Their leaders thrive on grievance and corruption. They offer no solutions. No compromises. For 80 years, Palestinians have resorted to terror - from Black September to murdering olympic athletes to hijacking airplanes to the atrocities of 10/7. They have caused civil war in Lebanon. They have murdered prime ministers and attempted coups in Jordan and Kuwait. And with Hamas, they have chosen to follow Islamic extremism. They are, as a people, utterly isolated. Only Iran uses them to stir things up in the Sunni world.

I fear that Palestinians have run out of options. After the massacres on 10/7, there is no support for an independent Palestine. Israel has turned even further to the right. Egypt is keeping that border wall closed - and the government certainly does not favor Hamas. There is no chance Jordan or Lebanon are stepping in to champion the Palestinian cause. And definitely not Saudi Arabia either.

I have yet to understand what Hamas was thinking when they invaded Israel. What was the end game? Because right now it is shaping up to be a historic catastrophe for Palestinians

So I am going to set aside my inclination to explain to you why the proposals for an independent state offered to the Palestinians were not fair/good offers because I know you cannot accept that your world view on this topic is off focus.

But I do wish to ask: what is your desired end game then? What do you think Israel should do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

The Palestinians have had many chances to have their own independent state in the post Ottoman era. There was the Peel Commission, which gave Arabs a state that was three times bigger than a proposed Jewish state. There was the UN partition of 1947, which gave them a state that stretched from Lebanon to the Negev. And there was the Oslo Accords, which created an independent Palestine out of the West Bank and Gaza with a land corridor connecting the two.

Think of all the countries that have been formed in the post-war era as Empires came to an end - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Kenya, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu and many more. In no case did independence arise without problems - think of the partition of India or the wars in Indochina. But invariably leaders arose to bring forth independence.

That never happened among Palestinians. Their leaders thrive on grievance and corruption. They offer no solutions. No compromises. For 80 years, Palestinians have resorted to terror - from Black September to murdering olympic athletes to hijacking airplanes to the atrocities of 10/7. They have caused civil war in Lebanon. They have murdered prime ministers and attempted coups in Jordan and Kuwait. And with Hamas, they have chosen to follow Islamic extremism. They are, as a people, utterly isolated. Only Iran uses them to stir things up in the Sunni world.

I fear that Palestinians have run out of options. After the massacres on 10/7, there is no support for an independent Palestine. Israel has turned even further to the right. Egypt is keeping that border wall closed - and the government certainly does not favor Hamas. There is no chance Jordan or Lebanon are stepping in to champion the Palestinian cause. And definitely not Saudi Arabia either.

I have yet to understand what Hamas was thinking when they invaded Israel. What was the end game? Because right now it is shaping up to be a historic catastrophe for Palestinians

So I am going to set aside my inclination to explain to you why the proposals for an independent state offered to the Palestinians were not fair/good offers because I know you cannot accept that your world view on this topic is off focus.

But I do wish to ask: what is your desired end game then? What do you think Israel should do?

Palestinians engaged in all of that violence, corruption and criminality yet we're supposed to just ignore that and bend over backwards with unconditional generous offers? I don't see you welcoming psychotic serial killers out of prison to come stay in your house in the spare bedroom next to your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard a group of people talk about another people so much as Palestinians talk about Jews. All day, it is Jews this Jews that. Just talk talk talk. Try building a socieity, contributing to civic matters instead.

How can they build a society ? Their land doesn’t even connect, they don’t have their own currency, water rights, military,don’t have an airport? They can’t build their own economy when they have to pay Israel for water and electric and use Israeli money

Because they do need "their own" anything. They can choose to live as part of Israeli society like other Arabs in Israel do. Ok they may want "their own" this and that but Israel and the rest of us are not required to care. You can talk talk talk all the day long.

I am intrigued with your thinking that all Palestinians need to do to become Israeli citizens is choose to be them. Please elaborate.

It amazes me they think that makes Isrsel safer. It’s essentially calling for a one state solution as well.

Palestinians who lost their babies and mothers and fathers and spouses aren’t able to happily move on from that and move to Israel with a smile. Some would rather choose death than live among and work for Israelis. That is what keeps Israel safer? I would think such a move would make Israel less safe

Would Israelis want to live in a Palestinian state ran by Hamas? Of course not

You misunderstood sarcasm. Palestinians were never given an option to “integrate peacefully into the Israeli society”. So it’s stupid to reproach them for not doing it.

You might want to do some reading on why Jordan and Egypt hasn't given Palestinians living there the option to integrate into Jordanian or Egyptian society. Or maybe read up on how Palestinians pushed Lebanon into civil war. They keep proving over and over again that they are incapable of peacefully integrating into anyone's society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

The Palestinians have had many chances to have their own independent state in the post Ottoman era. There was the Peel Commission, which gave Arabs a state that was three times bigger than a proposed Jewish state. There was the UN partition of 1947, which gave them a state that stretched from Lebanon to the Negev. And there was the Oslo Accords, which created an independent Palestine out of the West Bank and Gaza with a land corridor connecting the two.

Think of all the countries that have been formed in the post-war era as Empires came to an end - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Angola, Kenya, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu and many more. In no case did independence arise without problems - think of the partition of India or the wars in Indochina. But invariably leaders arose to bring forth independence.

That never happened among Palestinians. Their leaders thrive on grievance and corruption. They offer no solutions. No compromises. For 80 years, Palestinians have resorted to terror - from Black September to murdering olympic athletes to hijacking airplanes to the atrocities of 10/7. They have caused civil war in Lebanon. They have murdered prime ministers and attempted coups in Jordan and Kuwait. And with Hamas, they have chosen to follow Islamic extremism. They are, as a people, utterly isolated. Only Iran uses them to stir things up in the Sunni world.

I fear that Palestinians have run out of options. After the massacres on 10/7, there is no support for an independent Palestine. Israel has turned even further to the right. Egypt is keeping that border wall closed - and the government certainly does not favor Hamas. There is no chance Jordan or Lebanon are stepping in to champion the Palestinian cause. And definitely not Saudi Arabia either.

I have yet to understand what Hamas was thinking when they invaded Israel. What was the end game? Because right now it is shaping up to be a historic catastrophe for Palestinians

So I am going to set aside my inclination to explain to you why the proposals for an independent state offered to the Palestinians were not fair/good offers because I know you cannot accept that your world view on this topic is off focus.

But I do wish to ask: what is your desired end game then? What do you think Israel should do?

There is no perfect solution. And there never was. Decolonization was an inherently messy and unfair process. People do not live in tidy little geographic boxes. Look at all those straight lines drawn by Versailles in 1919. And again after WW II. None of those are "natural borders" between distinct people. Lebanon is not a natural state. Nor Syria. Nor Jordan. Nor Iraq. Some groups ended up with a disproportionate amount of sway - the Druze, for instance. And some groups were completely forsaken - like the Kurds.

The creation of new states often leads to population transfers. Millions and millions of people "lost" their ancestral lands with the partition of India in 1947. Even today, 120,000 Armenians were just forced to flee their historic homes in Nagorno-Karabakh when Azeris invaded. The world is not static. And never has been been.

There is nothing unique about Palestinians. In the post-Ottoman world, they were just one group among many. What does make them unique is their incredibly poor decision making. And it's not a new thing. In WWII, they allied with the Nazis. They allied with Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait. And now they are allied with the theocracy in Iran. You can always count on Palestinians to make bad strategic choices.

After Hamas invaded Israel and committed those brutal atrocities, I don't see any good outcome for Palestinians. There's no independent country to be had in the foreseeable future. Most of the region looks upon Hamas as the equivalent of an Iranian-supported ISIS. There will not be an independent Palestine for many decades.

What should have happened was Oslo. Palestinians would have had their own country for 30 years now. All those 700,000 settlers would have been long gone. Instead, Palestinians let themselves get played by the radical Israeli right, from Sharon to Netanyahu. It was a mistake scuttling the accords and launching the 2nd intifada. It only strengthened the Israeli right, and after all the suicide bombings and terror attacks, it made peace impossible. And of course, 10/7 is the ultimate exclamation point.

I don't think there is any "should" anymore. I think the situation is completely hopeless for Palestinian. Invading Israel has got to be one of the most breathtakingly stupid things anyone has ever done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

Oh yes, those chants "intifada intifada," "from the river to the sea," and "no two state solution" def suggest that what these folks want is peace between neighbors.

If Hamas wanted a peaceful piece of land on which to build a prosperous and safe Palestinian society - guess what, that's what they had as recently as Oct 6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People hate the words genocide and colonialism, especially when it applys to their actions.

People hate it when you tie those words together like you think that explains history.

It's childishly simplistic thinking whose only purpose is to show us that you think colonialism and genocide are bad.

The definition of colonialism is complicated and depends on context.

No one is making an argument that we should have more genocide.

Please detail good colonialism.

It's kind of weird how the only "bad" colonialism is western colonialism. Never mind the brutal campaigns of conquest and subjugation that the Russians engaged in that took them all the way to the far reaches of the Pacific. Never mind the Soviet tactics of violent coups and destabilization, arming violent warlords and extremists all across Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Southeast Asia. Never mind that they still continue this today with Wagner and other groups. Never mind that Iran has been funding and supporting groups to destabilize and attack in many countries, like the Houthis, Hezbollah, and others. That's ALSO colonialism. Weird that the entire fact of the spread of Islam in a swath spanning from Africa well into Asia including the Balkans and many other areas came about through violent conquest, subjugation, enslavement and colonization but somehow that's ignored. Never mind that many other countries like China are also as big as they are because of a legacy of violent conquest and colonialization. Never mind that ALL of those powers engaged in genocide. Just ignore all of history, the only evil powers are Israel and the US.

Look, friend - are you really this ignorant of history? Delusional? Or a deliberate liar? Regardless of which, none are a win for you.

DP. You bring a good point. I think what Palestinians are really upset about is that they never got the chance to be independent at all .

It went from Greeks to Romans to Arabs to Turks to Brits to Jews While everyone else became an independent state but Jews also had this problem of always being conquered and never really being a free independent state until recently .

How can Palestinians experience the same independence and safety that Israelis have? I’m not sure how to answer that.

Hamas has claimed they don’t mind recognizing Israel as their neighbor so long as Palestinians get their own independent state.

The problem is Israel won’t let Palestinians run their own independent state with their own military and control
Of their own airspace because they believe that they would take the opportunity to attack and they do have a point about that.

I don’t know what the solution is except for possible US or NATO controlled airspace and borders to cancel out strikes or attacks from both sides but if those entities get attacked then everyone would be forced into war .

The problem is Israel tested Palestinian semi independence with Gaza and Hamas used the opportunity to grow militarily (some Palestinians would say at with Israel’s encouragement and aiding and abetting ) so now Israel isn’t even considering anything but annexation and closing all negotiations regarding any sort of resemblance to Palestinian sovereignty

The problem also is Palestinians in the West Bank do not like Mahmoud Abbas and consider him a non entity, irrelevant, and a neutered president from a dying party. The younger generation supports Hamas . The neighboring Arab street also likes Hamas over Mahmoud Abbas. Egypt has hinted to the U.S. and to Israel that they do not want Abbas and the PA in charge of Gaza and they prefer to stick with Hamas -the devil they know. The West Bank supports Hamas more than Gaza does which is no doubt because they aren’t suffering as much casualties so are a further removed from the Hamas caused war.

Oh yes, those chants "intifada intifada," "from the river to the sea," and "no two state solution" def suggest that what these folks want is peace between neighbors.

If Hamas wanted a peaceful piece of land on which to build a prosperous and safe Palestinian society - guess what, that's what they had as recently as Oct 6.

Hasbara ministry has found this thread. Copy paste in full swing.