Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love my neighborhood but the local school is filled with liw income kids of uneducated parents. I would love to use a voucher for my child to attend another public school in the district, where kids actually want to learn and parents care about their education and the school their kids go to. Without having to move, that is.
Ideally there should be schools for kids with different needs a d challenges, with different priorities, philosophy and funding. vouchers or not, but birds of a feather should be given additional opportunity to flock together.

We have oob lottery and a zillion charters. How does that not accomplish what you describe?!

they must be a non- DC parachuter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i really hate all the talk of "terrible" schools as if the school buildings and staff are the problem. The problem is that the schools are filled with children who live in poverty. Vouchers might help a few kids escape to better schools, but I doubt that new private schools will do any better than charters or DCPS at solving the problems of urban poverty for most.

So much this. What these kids need to succeed are often things that schools can't provide--a stable home, adequate nutrition and healthcare, a safe neighborhood, etc. Good schools in DC are that way primarily because of the background of the kids who go there. A voucher system is a Band-Aid, not a cure.

I posted earlier. The NCES report I referred to upthread shows that DC's voucher program didn't even provide a band-aid. It had no observable impact on academic achievement.

^^^ This defies logic and sounds more like a biased report to achieve a political objective.Below is a link to a Heritage Foundation take on it. I know it's the Heritage Foundation, but I wouldn't swallow the NCES Kool-Aid without a lot of inner reflection on how that could possibly be accurate. Saying a kid would learn more in his or her Ward 8 neighborhood school than at a blue ribbon parochial across town is just ludicrous.

"Voucher programs are a powerful school choice tool that results in many positive outcomes for the students who participate in them. More families should have the opportunity and flexibility to choose the most effective school for their children to achieve success." http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2006/09/are-public-or-private-schools-doing-better-how-the-nces-study-is-being-misinterpreted

Sure, they might be better off at a good parochial school. But there is NO evidence that vouchers would expand the supply of good parochial school seats.

We're pioneering here and making new trails. So there's not going to be any evidence one way or another unless we try. Starting with an expanded pilot program would be useful.

Here's WaPo editorial article on the issue from today:

Trump’s choice for education secretary doesn’t fit into easy categories
http://wapo.st/2gQ0Cc0

This is not pioneering or new territory in DC - -where are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love my neighborhood but the local school is filled with liw income kids of uneducated parents. I would love to use a voucher for my child to attend another public school in the district, where kids actually want to learn and parents care about their education and the school their kids go to. Without having to move, that is.
Ideally there should be schools for kids with different needs a d challenges, with different priorities, philosophy and funding. vouchers or not, but birds of a feather should be given additional opportunity to flock together.

Segregation FTW! Trump 2020!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love my neighborhood but the local school is filled with liw income kids of uneducated parents. I would love to use a voucher for my child to attend another public school in the district, where kids actually want to learn and parents care about their education and the school their kids go to. Without having to move, that is.
Ideally there should be schools for kids with different needs a d challenges, with different priorities, philosophy and funding. vouchers or not, but birds of a feather should be given additional opportunity to flock together.

Segregation FTW! Trump 2020!

Yeah, that's called the suburbs, i.e. Bethesda, Arlington, McLean, Poolesville, etc. If you want to integrate, you have to offer viable choices.

[Anonymous]

You don't use a school voucher to attend a different public in another neighborhood. That's called the OOB lottery. What you want is a housing voucher so you can buy a house in the neighborhood with the better school but still have the same amount of space and the same mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't use a school voucher to attend a different public in another neighborhood. That's called the OOB lottery. What you want is a housing voucher so you can buy a house in the neighborhood with the better school but still have the same amount of space and the same mortgage.

PP, what you've written is nonsensical.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, meant to quote 01.37 above who would like a voucher so her/his kids could attend another neighborhood school (not their IB). That's not what school vouchers are for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, meant to quote 01.37 above who would like a voucher so her/his kids could attend another neighborhood school (not their IB). That's not what school vouchers are for.

True, but that's what they COULD be for, if we cared about educational outcomes and meritocracy more than about atudents' skin color.

(Different poster, just to clarify)

[Anonymous]

Sorry dcum but the vouchers are going to be income-based. The cutoff in Indiana was like $45k hhi to start with, though I think they raised it to $90k at some point. This is not going to be a program for households making $200k who want a little help with private school tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love my neighborhood but the local school is filled with liw income kids of uneducated parents. I would love to use a voucher for my child to attend another public school in the district, where kids actually want to learn and parents care about their education and the school their kids go to. Without having to move, that is.
Ideally there should be schools for kids with different needs a d challenges, with different priorities, philosophy and funding. vouchers or not, but birds of a feather should be given additional opportunity to flock together.

Segregation FTW! Trump 2020!

Yeah, that's called the suburbs, i.e. Bethesda, Arlington, McLean, Poolesville, etc. If you want to integrate, you have to offer viable choices.

Until then, let's double down on segregation. We can separate ourselves and then point to the minority schools and say they're "not viable choices" as a reason to not reintegrate. Then we can create even more policies to support the new segregation. Circular logic FTW! Great thinking! Trump 2020!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, meant to quote 01.37 above who would like a voucher so her/his kids could attend another neighborhood school (not their IB). That's not what school vouchers are for.

True, but that's what they COULD be for, if we cared about educational outcomes and meritocracy more than about atudents' skin color.

(Different poster, just to clarify)

It is my understanding - and correct me if I am wrong - that taxpayers can send their kids to public school for free whether the kid goes to their IB or an OOB school. Free. Vouchers are for people who, for whatever reason, do not want to send their kid to a public school but rather a private school but want or need money for tuition. Why would a voucher system be used to send a kid to one public rather than another? Why not use a lottery or an OOB set aside or forced busing? I don't get your point of using vouchers to pay for a kid to go to one public school rather than another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love my neighborhood but the local school is filled with liw income kids of uneducated parents. I would love to use a voucher for my child to attend another public school in the district, where kids actually want to learn and parents care about their education and the school their kids go to. Without having to move, that is.
Ideally there should be schools for kids with different needs a d challenges, with different priorities, philosophy and funding. vouchers or not, but birds of a feather should be given additional opportunity to flock together.

Segregation FTW! Trump 2020!

Yeah, that's called the suburbs, i.e. Bethesda, Arlington, McLean, Poolesville, etc. If you want to integrate, you have to offer viable choices.

Until then, let's double down on segregation. We can separate ourselves and then point to the minority schools and say they're "not viable choices" as a reason to not reintegrate. Then we can create even more policies to support the new segregation. Circular logic FTW! Great thinking! Trump 2020!

PP, you mustn't live in the city, or else you're daft.
"But one thing that hasn’t changed as much is the demographics in schools. One report calls this “racial isolation.” In almost 95 percent of DCPS schools in 2010, white students made up less than 5 percent of the student body."
http://wamu.org/story/14/10/31/for_dc_schools_race_and_class_still_define_the_system/

[Anonymous]

Yeah, tell me why I want vouchers. Below, from the "Stuart Hobson teacher quits" thread. How are you limo liberals in upper-NW doing this afternoon? Why don't you take the opportunity to lottery your kid into SH and then tell me how vouchers suck.



[Post New]12/10/2016 09:59 Subject: Stuart Hobson teacher quits [Up]
Anonymous



I teach at a DCPS elementary school (5 years).

There is no classroom management strategy that can replace effective mental health intervention. In some cases, this intervention should also be clinical and ongoing.

I have had seven year olds tell me they were going to punch me, stab me, kill me, rape me. I've had others express horrible recollections of abuse they have either been subjected to or witnessed. In other cases I've experienced generally overwhelmed families that have a cornucopia of financial challenges (paying multiple co-pays for disabled children or parents while also working two or three low paying jobs)

Interestingly enough, the demographic makeup of the school where I teach is similar to SH. The majority of our families on FARMS are actually not the families we have the most behavioral problems with.

Teachers and police are in a similar boat; we are hired to do our jobs but are compelled to triage severe mental health problems beyond both our training and scope. I've personally seen teachers be kicked, punched, threatened by parents with mental illnesses, and nothing be done by administrators.

DCPS needs to take a hard look in the mirror at spending priorities on mental health supports if it truly seeks to serve all children in the city and provide safe working environments for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yeah, tell me why I want vouchers. Below, from the "Stuart Hobson teacher quits" thread. How are you limo liberals in upper-NW doing this afternoon? Why don't you take the opportunity to lottery your kid into SH and then tell me how vouchers suck.



[Post New]12/10/2016 09:59 Subject: Stuart Hobson teacher quits [Up]
Anonymous



I teach at a DCPS elementary school (5 years).

There is no classroom management strategy that can replace effective mental health intervention. In some cases, this intervention should also be clinical and ongoing.

I have had seven year olds tell me they were going to punch me, stab me, kill me, rape me. I've had others express horrible recollections of abuse they have either been subjected to or witnessed. In other cases I've experienced generally overwhelmed families that have a cornucopia of financial challenges (paying multiple co-pays for disabled children or parents while also working two or three low paying jobs)

Interestingly enough, the demographic makeup of the school where I teach is similar to SH. The majority of our families on FARMS are actually not the families we have the most behavioral problems with.

Teachers and police are in a similar boat; we are hired to do our jobs but are compelled to triage severe mental health problems beyond both our training and scope. I've personally seen teachers be kicked, punched, threatened by parents with mental illnesses, and nothing be done by administrators.

DCPS needs to take a hard look in the mirror at spending priorities on mental health supports if it truly seeks to serve all children in the city and provide safe working environments for teachers.

how are vouchers going to fix that situation??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yeah, tell me why I want vouchers. Below, from the "Stuart Hobson teacher quits" thread. How are you limo liberals in upper-NW doing this afternoon? Why don't you take the opportunity to lottery your kid into SH and then tell me how vouchers suck.



[Post New]12/10/2016 09:59 Subject: Stuart Hobson teacher quits [Up]
Anonymous



I teach at a DCPS elementary school (5 years).

There is no classroom management strategy that can replace effective mental health intervention. In some cases, this intervention should also be clinical and ongoing.

I have had seven year olds tell me they were going to punch me, stab me, kill me, rape me. I've had others express horrible recollections of abuse they have either been subjected to or witnessed. In other cases I've experienced generally overwhelmed families that have a cornucopia of financial challenges (paying multiple co-pays for disabled children or parents while also working two or three low paying jobs)

Interestingly enough, the demographic makeup of the school where I teach is similar to SH. The majority of our families on FARMS are actually not the families we have the most behavioral problems with.

Teachers and police are in a similar boat; we are hired to do our jobs but are compelled to triage severe mental health problems beyond both our training and scope. I've personally seen teachers be kicked, punched, threatened by parents with mental illnesses, and nothing be done by administrators.

DCPS needs to take a hard look in the mirror at spending priorities on mental health supports if it truly seeks to serve all children in the city and provide safe working environments for teachers.

Those same kids will be in poor terrible private schools using vouchers. Only bad schools will take the vouchers.