Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.
That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.
This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.
Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.
OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?
Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?
No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.
When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.
So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.
Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.
She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?
Are you taking notes this point?
I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.
What you’re doing is monologuing.
DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.
Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.
Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
I knew this was Loudoun. I mean, not hard to decode by stopping by a winery on a Friday and bumping into a bunch of people you know, but also the mom clique vibes.
Do these moms not work and you do? That's a big factor in the mom clique at our ES.
So it's ok that OP is out at a winery on a Friday, but not these other women? Okey dokey.
Everyone keeps missing the detail that she stopped there to coordinate details for an event she is planning. She doesn't elaborate if that is for work or personal reasons.
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?
How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?
You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.
Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?
You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.
Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.
Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.
I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.
I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.
I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.
But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.
She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?
No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.
I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.
NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.
This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.
This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.
The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.
Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.
OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.
Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.
NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).
It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.
I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.
A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.
This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.
He also said:
“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”
“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”
“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”
“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”
He should have come back after the toxic crowd called the people who didn't take OPs side every name in the book and even the requisite "I feel sorry for your husbands". Really, the pot calling the kettle black.
Yes, and my personal favorite these days: slinging around the term "gaslighting". Every poster who didn't fully validate OP's feelings and her clique label -- even if they provided a reasonable explanation why not -- was a gaslighter.
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?
How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?
You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.
Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?
You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.
Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.
Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.
I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.
I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.
I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.
But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.
She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?
No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.
I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.
NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.
This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.
This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.
The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.
Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.
OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.
Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.
NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).
It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.
I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.
A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.
This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.
He also said:
“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”
“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”
“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”
“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”
He should have come back after the toxic crowd called the people who didn't take OPs side every name in the book and even the requisite "I feel sorry for your husbands". Really, the pot calling the kettle black.
Oh, poor mean girls! Let me play the world's smallest violin for you.
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?
How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?
You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.
Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?
You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.
Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.
Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.
I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.
I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.
I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.
But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.
She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?
No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.
I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.
NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.
This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.
This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.
The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.
Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.
OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.
Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.
NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).
It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.
I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.
A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.
This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.
He also said:
“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”
“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”
“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”
“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”
He should have come back after the toxic crowd called the people who didn't take OPs side every name in the book and even the requisite "I feel sorry for your husbands". Really, the pot calling the kettle black.
OK, that comment was my own. About the earplugs. It’s because of the massive paragraph writing that most of those posts contained. It’s like it cannot be let go. Dog with a bone.
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
I knew this was Loudoun. I mean, not hard to decode by stopping by a winery on a Friday and bumping into a bunch of people you know, but also the mom clique vibes.
Do these moms not work and you do? That's a big factor in the mom clique at our ES.
OP—I work full time. I know one mom in my neighborhood works from home. The rest are SAHM.
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?
How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?
You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.
Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?
You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.
Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.
Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.
I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.
I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.
I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.
But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.
She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?
No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.
I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.
NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.
This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.
This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.
The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.
Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.
OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.
Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.
NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).
It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.
I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.
A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.
This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.
He also said:
“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”
“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”
“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”
“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”
He should have come back after the toxic crowd called the people who didn't take OPs side every name in the book and even the requisite "I feel sorry for your husbands". Really, the pot calling the kettle black.
Oh, poor mean girls! Let me play the world's smallest violin for you.
With my older kid, I did all the drop-offs and pick-ups, and as a result, felt hurt when not included by the moms. With the younger kid, my circumstances had changed, and I don't even know many moms more so feel hurt by not being their BFF.
Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.
That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.
This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.
Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.
OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?
Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?
No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.
When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.
So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.
Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.
She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?
Are you taking notes this point?
I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.
What you’re doing is monologuing.
DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.
Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.
Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.
Agree. And it shows up in most threads.
If all OP wanted were "mom clique stories" then she didn't need to go into detail about her encounter, including the follow-up text (which is pretty indefensible)... Of course people where going to discuss it a bit, and of course people bring personal personal biases to those types of discussions. Is it even possible not to?
Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.
That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.
This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.
Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.
OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?
Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?
No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.
When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.
So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.
Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.
She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?
Are you taking notes this point?
I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.
What you’re doing is monologuing.
DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.
Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.
Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.
Agree. And it shows up in most threads.
If all OP wanted were "mom clique stories" then she didn't need to go into detail about her encounter, including the follow-up text (which is pretty indefensible)... Of course people where going to discuss it a bit, and of course people bring personal personal biases to those types of discussions. Is it even possible not to?
Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.
That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.
This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.
Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.
OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?
Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?
No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.
When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.
So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.
Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.
She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?
Are you taking notes this point?
I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.
What you’re doing is monologuing.
DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.
Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.
Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.
Agree. And it shows up in most threads.
If all OP wanted were "mom clique stories" then she didn't need to go into detail about her encounter, including the follow-up text (which is pretty indefensible)... Of course people where going to discuss it a bit, and of course people bring personal personal biases to those types of discussions. Is it even possible not to?
Well, shortly into the thread OP made a follow-up post where she asked people to stop commenting on her situation at all and only post with mom clique stories. That was a weird expectation...
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?
How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?
You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.
Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?
You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.
Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.
Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.
I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.
I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.
I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.
But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.
She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?
No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.
I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.
NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.
This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.
This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.
The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.
Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.
OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.
Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.
NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).
It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.
I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.
A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.
This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.
He also said:
“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”
“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”
“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”
“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”
He should have come back after the toxic crowd called the people who didn't take OPs side every name in the book and even the requisite "I feel sorry for your husbands". Really, the pot calling the kettle black.
I just want to note that the "I feel sorry for your husbands" post did not specify whose husbands that PP felt sorry for. I think it was a collective indictment, and while normally I don't engage in that kind of ad hominem, it was well deserved in this instance!
Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?
OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.
I knew this was Loudoun. I mean, not hard to decode by stopping by a winery on a Friday and bumping into a bunch of people you know, but also the mom clique vibes.
Do these moms not work and you do? That's a big factor in the mom clique at our ES.
OP—I work full time. I know one mom in my neighborhood works from home. The rest are SAHM.
FT WOHM here. Oh my, OP, they are on a different schedule than you.
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more so feel hurt by not being their BFF.
