Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

+1000

[Anonymous]

None of these women have jobs? That's the most shocking part of this. There are 15 SAHMs who can sit at a winery on a Friday socializing?

I don't know if there are mom cliques at our elementary. I'm friends with the moms in my neighborhood, some of whom also have kids at the same school, and some whom do not. But my main social outlet is not the other moms at my kid's school, so I guess I don't care if there is a clique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Flip it around and make the same scenario with your child..

15 kids out of a classroom of 30 are invited to a birthday party at some public place. Your DS or DD is out and about and comes across half of their classmates and realizes they weren't invited. To be clear, it's 15 kids without a common denominator like they are all on the soccer team or in the chess club. Should your kid be upset or not?

If it's 10 out of 30, that seems like it's just a gathering of the kid's closer friends. At 20 out of 30, that's clearly exclusionary.

At 15 out of 30, is it enough for your kid to feel confused and a bit hurt and for you to empathize with their feelings?

Unless OPs kids are twins in the same class, they are in different classes. "Most" of the moms are in her kids classes according to OP. So maybe 6 parents from one class, 6 parents from another class then a few other randoms. So out of potentially 50 families 12 people were invited. What's the problem?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

^^ “drunkies,” not drinkers. Of course they were all drinkers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

That’s because you’re a “b-witch.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of these women have jobs? That's the most shocking part of this. There are 15 SAHMs who can sit at a winery on a Friday socializing?

I don't know if there are mom cliques at our elementary. I'm friends with the moms in my neighborhood, some of whom also have kids at the same school, and some whom do not. But my main social outlet is not the other moms at my kid's school, so I guess I don't care if there is a clique.

Most SAHMs I know care for young children or older relatives, which is also work, and definitely rules out day drinking. Very odd that so many could gather for a grownups only activity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.

This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of these women have jobs? That's the most shocking part of this. There are 15 SAHMs who can sit at a winery on a Friday socializing?

I don't know if there are mom cliques at our elementary. I'm friends with the moms in my neighborhood, some of whom also have kids at the same school, and some whom do not. But my main social outlet is not the other moms at my kid's school, so I guess I don't care if there is a clique.

I also found this surprising. Especially if OP is right and it's a regular thing. I don't even work full time and I absolutely do not have the time to meet up with a bunch of other moms on a weekday for wine and apps. One, after one glass I would be asleep, or I'd have a headache for the rest of my day which would include doing daycare pickup, prepping dinner, debriefing on our days with my husband, dinner and bedtime with kids. I'd wind up punting a bunch of that to DH because I felt like crap, and he'd be annoyed because he works full time and would have just finished a 40+ hour week and resent also having to do dinner and bedtime on his own while I nursed a same-day hangover.

Also, having worked in a place like a winery, I cannot tell you how annoying a group of 15 middle aged moms walking through the door at 1pm on a Friday would have been (I say that as a middle aged mom). They are probably going to be frustratingly demanding about everything from the content of the food to where they sit, they will linger for hours talking and take up a bunch of tables, but they will ultimately not eat or drink that much, and then because it's a large group it is highly likely they will undersestimate the tip (or they'll ask for like 10 different tabs and even then they might stiff you). I'd much rather have a bunch of 2 and 3 tops having one or two rounds and one app each during that same same period. I'd have to work hard but it would be more efficient and I'd make more money.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

I knew this was Loudoun. I mean, not hard to decode by stopping by a winery on a Friday and bumping into a bunch of people you know, but also the mom clique vibes.

Do these moms not work and you do? That's a big factor in the mom clique at our ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

I knew this was Loudoun. I mean, not hard to decode by stopping by a winery on a Friday and bumping into a bunch of people you know, but also the mom clique vibes.

Do these moms not work and you do? That's a big factor in the mom clique at our ES.

So it's ok that OP is out at a winery on a Friday, but not these other women? Okey dokey.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.

This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.

He also said:

“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”

“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”

“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”

“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Why are you trickling out information like this? You never said the moms’ kids were in the same classes as your kids.

NP, but I'm guessing it's because when OP posted the thread, her explicit goal was to solicit experiences from other moms who had experienced being left out of "cliques" and the like (I agree with people who don't think this was a clique but I do know what it's like to feel left out of a mom group so whatever).

It's only because a bizarrely obsessive group of posters started viciously ripping OP to shreds, putting words in her mouth, and accusing her of being delusional and unreasonable, that she has offered some additional detail. I don't think OP meant to make this an moratorium on her experience (which no one on this thread knows the nuanced details of but her), it just became that because some posters are weirdly obsessed with it. I don't know why, as we will never actually know enough to know if OP was "right" in feeling excluded. It might not even be knowable because we'd have to know the intentions and decisions of all 15 women. We don't. We won't. Let it go.

I just reread the first few pages, and I’m not seeing anything vicious. Maybe a little snarky and rude, but that’s the norm here. On the other side, we have posters calling the 15 anonymous women “b-witches,” “alcoholics” and “drinkers” simply for having the gall to get together, but I guess you’re ok with that.

A few posts, yes, but I've read the entire thread and even though I don't totally agree with OP's take on this situation, and really think she shouldn't have sent that text, I've wound up on her side because I do think people have been vicious to her. People have repeatedly called her delusional, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, etc. I did see the comments you are talking about but they are one off comments -- the people attacking (yes, attacking) OP have been relentless for over 20 pages. It is very weird and actually pretty ironic given the subject of the thread. I don't know that the women at the winery were a "clique," but I do feel comfortable saying some of the posters on this thread are mean-a$$ b***es.

This is why people are going back and forth. ^ People like this PP can't handle a disagreement or see things differently and out come the personal attacks. People don't see this as a big deal and that OP didn't read the situation correctly. Even the mod said that. Apparently that's a huge problem for some posters.

He also said:

“The immediate reaction from those responding was not to share stories, but rather to attack the original poster.”

“It is almost as if the entire DCUM had turned into a mom's clique and was determined to ostracize the original poster. The attacks on the original poster reached the point that they generated their own backlash.”

“But the reaction of most of the posters, who appeared almost rabid in their eagerness to attack the original poster, was far more overdone.”

“It appears that like fight clubs, the first rule of mom cliques is to not talk about mom cliques.”

He should have come back after the toxic crowd called the people who didn't take OPs side every name in the book and even the requisite "I feel sorry for your husbands". Really, the pot calling the kettle black.