What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

Don't kid yourself. MCPS is corrupt as s***. I wouldn't trust any test devised by MCPS.

Cogat was (a) Nationally recognized, (b) race neutral and (c) accepted by international organizations such as Mensa.

Let's be honest here - the only reason why MCPS threw it out is because it catches their hand in the cookie jar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

The PP was correct. Most of this stuff is misinformation to rile up the uninformed. They didn't set out to make a lottery it was the consequence of circumstances beyond their control. A more valid question is now that they could adminster the cogAT why are they keeping it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

The PP was correct. Most of this stuff is misinformation to rile up the uninformed. They didn't set out to make a lottery it was the consequence of circumstances beyond their control. A more valid question is now that they could adminster the cogAT why are they keeping it?

That's not true. The year before Covid, MCPS did not adhere to the standards publicly posted on how to calculate the MCPS Percentile used to select MS Magnet students.

It's interesting that now MCPS is not publishing the exact "local norming" and "lottery" methodologies? Notice a pattern there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My question is in what U.S. State is it acceptable to choose children's admissions into Magnet programs by rolling dice?

Why isn't the news picking up on this issue? These people are completely incompetent as educators and at best this is classic Waste Fraud and Abuse.

Um, Fairfax County, Virginia?
New York City
San Francisco
Boston Public

I’m sure there are others - those are just the ones I see in the news regularly.

Some states don’t require any gifted services at all, and many districts don’t offer them. Lots of the elite gifted programs nationwide are looking at ways to diversify their student bodies. [/quote

Nashville too. Lottery among the qualified candidates. Probably lots of other cities.

This is where we are going.

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

HARRISON BERGERON
by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
French Translation from Avice Robitaille.
Hindi Translation by Ashwin.
Urdu Translation by RealMS
Russian translation
THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

Some things about living still weren't quite right, though. April for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron's fourteen-year-old son, Harrison, away.

It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn't think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn't think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains.

Great short story. Should be required reading in these times.

Unfortunately our reality. For one of the previous posters who didn't understand what equity meant. This is it. Equity forced upon you by the tyranny of the masses and venal politicians. Right now people don't care because a minority Asian group is being targeted. Eventually everyone loses.

EQUITY: the quality of being fair and impartial.

I think you are looking for a different word????

[Anonymous]

"Equality means each individual or group of people is given the same resources or opportunities. Equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances and allocates the exact resources and opportunities needed to reach an equal outcome."

The MCPS Lottery is neither - it's just gambling with the future's of our children.

[Anonymous]

Neither you nor they seem to he using the word correctly.

Doesn't anybody use a dictionary anymore?????

[Anonymous]

You could give rug rats all the tea in China and a few will excel but systemically they will still fail without society’s expectation to succeed and it will take a thousand years to close the current gap. Put all the poor kids in the magnet and society will just not value the magnet any longer. Harvard wants future leaders who can contribute back, not necessarily the smartest. Never have. The smart kids sprinkled into the legacies and good families are to raise the perception of Chad’s intellectual bonafides not bring an underclass up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My question is in what U.S. State is it acceptable to choose children's admissions into Magnet programs by rolling dice?

Why isn't the news picking up on this issue? These people are completely incompetent as educators and at best this is classic Waste Fraud and Abuse.

Um, Fairfax County, Virginia?
New York City
San Francisco
Boston Public

I’m sure there are others - those are just the ones I see in the news regularly.

Some states don’t require any gifted services at all, and many districts don’t offer them. Lots of the elite gifted programs nationwide are looking at ways to diversify their student bodies. [/quote

Nashville too. Lottery among the qualified candidates. Probably lots of other cities.

This is where we are going.

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

HARRISON BERGERON
by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
French Translation from Avice Robitaille.
Hindi Translation by Ashwin.
Urdu Translation by RealMS
Russian translation
THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

Some things about living still weren't quite right, though. April for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron's fourteen-year-old son, Harrison, away.

It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn't think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn't think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains.

Great short story. Should be required reading in these times.

Unfortunately our reality. For one of the previous posters who didn't understand what equity meant. This is it. Equity forced upon you by the tyranny of the masses and venal politicians. Right now people don't care because a minority Asian group is being targeted. Eventually everyone loses.

EQUITY: the quality of being fair and impartial.

I think you are looking for a different word????

Yes. There is a different word that describes it. I don't want to start a useless argument with self serving hypocrites though....I think everyone understands what's happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

The PP was correct. Most of this stuff is misinformation to rile up the uninformed. They didn't set out to make a lottery it was the consequence of circumstances beyond their control. A more valid question is now that they could adminster the cogAT why are they keeping it?

That's not true. The year before Covid, MCPS did not adhere to the standards publicly posted on how to calculate the MCPS Percentile used to select MS Magnet students.

It's interesting that now MCPS is not publishing the exact "local norming" and "lottery" methodologies? Notice a pattern there?

It's not curious at all because anyone should be able to figure it out it's basic stuff and detailed on their website so I don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

The PP was correct. Most of this stuff is misinformation to rile up the uninformed. They didn't set out to make a lottery it was the consequence of circumstances beyond their control. A more valid question is now that they could adminster the cogAT why are they keeping it?

That's not true. The year before Covid, MCPS did not adhere to the standards publicly posted on how to calculate the MCPS Percentile used to select MS Magnet students.

It's interesting that now MCPS is not publishing the exact "local norming" and "lottery" methodologies? Notice a pattern there?

It's not curious at all because anyone should be able to figure it out it's basic stuff and detailed on their website so I don't know what you're talking about.

Please post the link to the methodology for local norming and lottery formulation. I am interested and want to understand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

Seriously, the lottery should be held in a public setting instead of a lottery selection shrouded in mystery. Applicant submits application. Receives a raffle ticket. You put your ticket in the bowl (or elect to let them put the ticket in the bowl for you). They shake it up and let some kids pick it. Easy Peasy and everyone knows it is fair.

Lottery exclusively applied for academics so that certain groups can be reduced. You know those kids who work too hard and whose immigrant parents care too much about education. Screw those uppities. You won't replace us.

Please clarify, who is replacing who? But really, they should do it so that if you qualify academically, you get a raffle ticket and the raffle is held in the open.

Their statements aren't factual. The lottery was done because of the pandemic after the makers of the CogAT stated their test could not be administered remotely. They're just making up crazy conspiracy theories for which there is 0 evidence because it supports their extreme political agenda.

Right, even if what you are saying is true, is COGAT is the only possible test? Really? Instead of spending millions of $ on consultants.MCPS could actually create a test where prep wouldn't even matter. what extreme political agenda is it please? The lottery defamation league agenda? I see one side in power making power and some people asking questions and resisting politically expedient lazy solutions.

The PP was correct. Most of this stuff is misinformation to rile up the uninformed. They didn't set out to make a lottery it was the consequence of circumstances beyond their control. A more valid question is now that they could adminster the cogAT why are they keeping it?

That's not true. The year before Covid, MCPS did not adhere to the standards publicly posted on how to calculate the MCPS Percentile used to select MS Magnet students.

It's interesting that now MCPS is not publishing the exact "local norming" and "lottery" methodologies? Notice a pattern there?

It's not curious at all because anyone should be able to figure it out it's basic stuff and detailed on their website so I don't know what you're talking about.

Please post the link to the methodology for local norming and lottery formulation. I am interested and want to understand it.

+1. Everyone says that is “obvious” or “easy” to understand but I would really like MCPS to help me understand.

[Anonymous]

If we are committed to a system that has fewer seats in the magnet than deserving kids, then I like the lottery. And that is speaking as a parent whose kids were in the lottery pool but didn't get a seat in the magnet.

The old system relied too much on teacher recommendations and other soft measures, which advantage the kids who sit still and color in the lines and do all the pedagogical nonsense that teachers now use. Everyone who has had kids in MCPS knows that the kids selected for magnet programs under the old system are often not the most gifted or intellectually curious or needing of extra stimulation. Certainly they were not the ones who tested the highest. They were the kids who played along the best.

So at least the lottery acknowledges the essential randomness of selection and the calls attention to the fact that we have chosen as a community not to provide the resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we are committed to a system that has fewer seats in the magnet than deserving kids, then I like the lottery. And that is speaking as a parent whose kids were in the lottery pool but didn't get a seat in the magnet.

The old system relied too much on teacher recommendations and other soft measures, which advantage the kids who sit still and color in the lines and do all the pedagogical nonsense that teachers now use. Everyone who has had kids in MCPS knows that the kids selected for magnet programs under the old system are often not the most gifted or intellectually curious or needing of extra stimulation. Certainly they were not the ones who tested the highest. They were the kids who played along the best.

So at least the lottery acknowledges the essential randomness of selection and the calls attention to the fact that we have chosen as a community not to provide the resources.

The previous system didn't use teacher recs or anything of the sort. I'm not for or against the lottery, but your post seems misinformed.