Seeking advice on Biglaw from lawyers: I'm below median at a T-30 school

[Anonymous]

First of all, I know my chances are tiny/non-existent bar a miracle or something, but I also know of several people in my exact same position who got Biglaw job offers in DC, VA, and NYC.

First of all, I have a scholarship to a school in the 20-30 range of rankings, so luckily I am not buried in debt up to my eyeballs. However, I sucked at issue-spotter exams and ended up with a GPA below the median for my law school's curve. My undergraduate major was in the liberal arts and I don't have significant work experience prior to law school. However, I have been working at a small firm all semester (I'm a 3L now) and have racked up some litigation experience from the summer, and I'm generally tenacious and bright and hard-working. I think at this point, a firm job will only come from networking though.

Any advice? What unconventional methods have you tried or have you heard of? I'm willing to pound the pavement and give it all I've got to get myself a job before graduation, but so far I think I have wasted effort by not using my time wisely. And if I don't change my approach to job-hunting, I'm only going to get the same results that I've been getting so far, which is nothing haha. So I no longer think the tailored mass mails/spamming every state in America is going to help. I need to build personal connections.

Here are some ideas I had:

1) Spend the next few months (i.e. all of spring semester) showing up at firms personally with my application materials, in a suit, and requesting to talk to the hiring partner. They will likely either put me off, or tell me flat out no. I should ignore that and continue to show up personally once a week and reiterate my interest face-to-face. I should follow that weekly stalking visit up with phone calls/emails every week, basically harassing them but politely.

2) Find a recruiting agency for law students? Haven't had any luck with this so far, so suggestions welcome.

3) Find out if there are any particularly influential and important individuals in my home market (DC) or desired market (NYC) who are plugged into the legal community and have substantial influence, and meet them? But the problem with this is, 1) how the hell do I find these people and 2) how would I make them want to help me?

Already tried asking my professors - a couple of them liked me and tried, but all of their contacts have retired and don't have much pull.

PLEASE give whatever suggestions/advice you can. Please don't reply to this thread if you want to criticize my decision to go to law school, or my exam-taking skills, or if you want to tell me I'm fucked. Only reply if you have something constructive to add - if not, read another thread and have a nice day! Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I think you need to to show firms what kind of work product you can produce. You should try and get a part-time job clerking somewhere next semester to gain some experience/demonstrate your abilities.

[Anonymous]

Try to get your current firm to hire you. Big Law won't.

[Anonymous]

Are you looking for vault top 100? I think you need to accept that is not going to happen and start targeting other jobs. Small firms, government, clerkships etc.

[Anonymous]

I know a couple of people who went to work at small firms, worked hard and made an impression on the legal community where they worked. They traded their jobs at small firms for BigLaw jobs based on their work out of law school. Both of them are partners at their firms now.

[Anonymous]

Sad to say I agree with PPs that you should try to get the firm you are working at now to hire you. Big law firms have already hired the folks from your class that they are going to hire. If you want to do "Big Law" you are going to have to come in through some route other than getting hired straight out of law school. Have you worked at firms for the summer and if so did they give you an offer?

Look at smaller firms that will give you some expertise in something from working there and then you might have the ability to move into a bigger firm at some point if you are very successful or if you do a stint in gov. or in-house that is valuable. None of your "unconventional" strategies is going to work and you run the risk of people thinking you are crazy. Nothing is more convention driven than big law firm hiring and nothing you said in your post suggests any reason why a firm would want to hire you over all the other folks out there who want those jobs. I would focus on getting a job that will give you legal experience and then go from there.

[Anonymous]

You are not going to get hired at a big law firm any time in the next three years. Even if you are a brilliant networker and incredibly tenacious and have a million good intangibles, it is just not going to happen. Big firms are rigid and follow strict rules. Even a stellar recommendation from a current partner at the firm is probably not enough. They're THAT rigid about grading cutoffs.

Yes, you've heard a story about a person who managed to get through the door through a connection. What you're not hearing is that when this person said her grades were bad, she meant "I was top 1/3rd, not top 10%" And she's also not mentioning that she wrote onto law review, is a minority female, and sat for the patent bar while she was working as a paralegal at that firm.

I am not saying this to be negative, but because I think it will help you prioritize your time. Do not spend time trying to get a job at a big law firm. Try to get a job somewhere else. Get a job where you worked. Or at a small firm. Or in a state DA’s office.

Then, work at that job and do a really dang good job. Try to work on subject matter that is hot, like intellectual property, healthcare law, etc. Get as much real world experience as possible. Do this for 2-3 years and then revisit where you want to end up.

At that point, I think there’s a good chance you’ll no longer want to be in a big firm. But suppose you do. Now you have some options:

1. Let’s say you went to a small firm and managed to take several dozen depositions in an IP case. Well, now a big firm with an immediate need might hire you as a mid-level associate.

2. Let’s say your went to a DA’s office, they love you, and you’ve got a ton of trial experience. Perhaps if you stay a few more years you will be promoted to a senior or deputy position. Then maybe you can come into a firm as a senior associate or counsel, prove your worth, and make counsel.

3. Let’s say you go to a government agency. You do a great job, get repeatedly promoted, and eventually become the Chief of Enforcement. Now a firm would love to have you as a partner.

4. Back at the small firm route again, you become a partner years before your classmates at big firms. You first chair a major trial against a big firm. (Your classmates who did better than you in law school watch from the galleys awaiting instructions from the trial team). You win the trial and get a reputation as an excellent trial attorney. A big firm offers you a partnership position.

5. You’re at any of these jobs and you network and remain politically active. A friend runs for the House of Representatives. You work hard on the campaign and he wins. He helps you get a political appointment at an agency. You work there until the President changes, and then lateral into a firm as partner.

There are still a lot of ways you can end up in big law, if that’s what you want. But note that: (1) all of them start with working hard and being good at some other job; and (2) none of them are going to happen in the next couple years.

Wishing you the best of luck. And if you work hard and network, that luck will eventually show up.

[Anonymous]

I was middle of the class at a T14 school when the economy was taking a dip (right after dotcom crash) but not nearly as bad as it is today. I had connections and did not get an offer. Honestly, connections are not going to override mediocre grades/school. Maybe if you have major connections and are top twenty instead of top ten percent at a top ten school, that will help. But you simply are not going to get a BigLaw offer right now.

Spend Xmas breaks applying to smaller firms AND smaller markets. Are you from some random Midwestern city? Work your connections there. Yeah, maybe you don't want to move to Milwaukee but maybe you can lateral out in a few years.

I say this from having been in a similar position. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Do not stalk law firms in person. I am the legal secretary to the managing partner in charge of recruiting. He would never meet with you if you cold-called. If you tried to wait hours in our reception area, that would be stupidly a waste of your time, but fine. If you started trying to network with professionals also in the reception area, we would have Security remove you.

Reach out to headhunters, and accept that getting where you want to be may be a two or three year process.

[Anonymous]

Headhunters do not work with law students or recent grads. No one will pay them any money to "hunt" for you because you are not a hard-to-find commodity. First year associates with mediocre grades from mediocre law schools are a dime a dozen. Recruiters work from the open job, not from the candidate.

Ditto what PP said re. the law firm stalking. No one will be impressed. In fact, that will ensure that you NEVER work at that firm.

The truth is, this train has left the station and you have to get on the bus. If BigLaw is your dream, your only shot is to to work at a smaller firm and develop a substantial book of business. Alternatively, you could develop expertise in a niche area in the government and then cycle back in, but even that is a tough road without book.

Or you can go back to school and get a master's in electrical engineering or computer science and sit for the patent bar.

[Anonymous]

Is the firm you have been working with interested in hiring you?

[Anonymous]

I am not a lawyer but your plan #1 (stalking) sounds terrible. It's really hard for me to imagine any sort of prestigious work place where that kind of behavior would be a plus.

[Anonymous]

1) is a terrible idea. Terrible. Don't even go there, you won't impress anyone with that stunt and a hiring partner will not take time out of his $750-$1,000 per hour billable rate to meet some random kid.

The only other idea I have is to work for a professor or try to get a clerkship or internship with a judge. That will help. PS my grades were ok at a top 15 school but eventually it was all about my agency experience.

[Anonymous]

I think 17:28 has some great advice. Unfortunately, across most fields there is such a saturation in the job market that if you don't fit the mold of what places like to hire you have to go through it an alternative way. But life is long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not going to get hired at a big law firm any time in the next three years. Even if you are a brilliant networker and incredibly tenacious and have a million good intangibles, it is just not going to happen. Big firms are rigid and follow strict rules. Even a stellar recommendation from a current partner at the firm is probably not enough. They're THAT rigid about grading cutoffs.

Yes, you've heard a story about a person who managed to get through the door through a connection. What you're not hearing is that when this person said her grades were bad, she meant "I was top 1/3rd, not top 10%" And she's also not mentioning that she wrote onto law review, is a minority female, and sat for the patent bar while she was working as a paralegal at that firm.

I am not saying this to be negative, but because I think it will help you prioritize your time. Do not spend time trying to get a job at a big law firm. Try to get a job somewhere else. Get a job where you worked. Or at a small firm. Or in a state DA’s office.

Then, work at that job and do a really dang good job. Try to work on subject matter that is hot, like intellectual property, healthcare law, etc. Get as much real world experience as possible. Do this for 2-3 years and then revisit where you want to end up.

At that point, I think there’s a good chance you’ll no longer want to be in a big firm. But suppose you do. Now you have some options:

1. Let’s say you went to a small firm and managed to take several dozen depositions in an IP case. Well, now a big firm with an immediate need might hire you as a mid-level associate.

2. Let’s say your went to a DA’s office, they love you, and you’ve got a ton of trial experience. Perhaps if you stay a few more years you will be promoted to a senior or deputy position. Then maybe you can come into a firm as a senior associate or counsel, prove your worth, and make counsel.

3. Let’s say you go to a government agency. You do a great job, get repeatedly promoted, and eventually become the Chief of Enforcement. Now a firm would love to have you as a partner.

4. Back at the small firm route again, you become a partner years before your classmates at big firms. You first chair a major trial against a big firm. (Your classmates who did better than you in law school watch from the galleys awaiting instructions from the trial team). You win the trial and get a reputation as an excellent trial attorney. A big firm offers you a partnership position.

5. You’re at any of these jobs and you network and remain politically active. A friend runs for the House of Representatives. You work hard on the campaign and he wins. He helps you get a political appointment at an agency. You work there until the President changes, and then lateral into a firm as partner.

There are still a lot of ways you can end up in big law, if that’s what you want. But note that: (1) all of them start with working hard and being good at some other job; and (2) none of them are going to happen in the next couple years.

Wishing you the best of luck. And if you work hard and network, that luck will eventually show up.

To OP: you should read the foregoing as gospel because it is absolutely spot on. There is nothing else to say because this was thorough, thoughtful and excellent advice. Seriously. Said what I was thinking but so much better.