Seeking advice on Biglaw from lawyers: I'm below median at a T-30 school

[Anonymous]

One other way to get in to biglaw is, if you have a legitimate geographic connection (i.e., it's where your from, etc.), try applying to a small satellite office of a large firm, even if it's not where you currently live. May be easier to get in to.

[Anonymous]

I think your best bet is to try to get in at a smaller firm - start out interning or clerking part time, impress them and work your way in. Why is Biglaw something that you are interested in anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not stalk law firms in person. I am the legal secretary to the managing partner in charge of recruiting. He would never meet with you if you cold-called. If you tried to wait hours in our reception area, that would be stupidly a waste of your time, but fine. If you started trying to network with professionals also in the reception area, we would have Security remove you.

Reach out to headhunters, and accept that getting where you want to be may be a two or three year process.

Please don't weigh in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not stalk law firms in person. I am the legal secretary to the managing partner in charge of recruiting. He would never meet with you if you cold-called. If you tried to wait hours in our reception area, that would be stupidly a waste of your time, but fine. If you started trying to network with professionals also in the reception area, we would have Security remove you.

Reach out to headhunters, and accept that getting where you want to be may be a two or three year process.

Please don't weigh in.

NP -- why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not stalk law firms in person. I am the legal secretary to the managing partner in charge of recruiting. He would never meet with you if you cold-called. If you tried to wait hours in our reception area, that would be stupidly a waste of your time, but fine. If you started trying to network with professionals also in the reception area, we would have Security remove you.

Reach out to headhunters, and accept that getting where you want to be may be a two or three year process.

Please don't weigh in.

Np. Why not? A legal secretary who has been around the block can provide great insight into how these firms work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not going to get hired at a big law firm any time in the next three years. Even if you are a brilliant networker and incredibly tenacious and have a million good intangibles, it is just not going to happen. Big firms are rigid and follow strict rules. Even a stellar recommendation from a current partner at the firm is probably not enough. They're THAT rigid about grading cutoffs.

Yes, you've heard a story about a person who managed to get through the door through a connection. What you're not hearing is that when this person said her grades were bad, she meant "I was top 1/3rd, not top 10%" And she's also not mentioning that she wrote onto law review, is a minority female, and sat for the patent bar while she was working as a paralegal at that firm.

I am not saying this to be negative, but because I think it will help you prioritize your time. Do not spend time trying to get a job at a big law firm. Try to get a job somewhere else. Get a job where you worked. Or at a small firm. Or in a state DA’s office.

Then, work at that job and do a really dang good job. Try to work on subject matter that is hot, like intellectual property, healthcare law, etc. Get as much real world experience as possible. Do this for 2-3 years and then revisit where you want to end up.

At that point, I think there’s a good chance you’ll no longer want to be in a big firm. But suppose you do. Now you have some options:

1. Let’s say you went to a small firm and managed to take several dozen depositions in an IP case. Well, now a big firm with an immediate need might hire you as a mid-level associate.

2. Let’s say your went to a DA’s office, they love you, and you’ve got a ton of trial experience. Perhaps if you stay a few more years you will be promoted to a senior or deputy position. Then maybe you can come into a firm as a senior associate or counsel, prove your worth, and make counsel.

3. Let’s say you go to a government agency. You do a great job, get repeatedly promoted, and eventually become the Chief of Enforcement. Now a firm would love to have you as a partner.

4. Back at the small firm route again, you become a partner years before your classmates at big firms. You first chair a major trial against a big firm. (Your classmates who did better than you in law school watch from the galleys awaiting instructions from the trial team). You win the trial and get a reputation as an excellent trial attorney. A big firm offers you a partnership position.

5. You’re at any of these jobs and you network and remain politically active. A friend runs for the House of Representatives. You work hard on the campaign and he wins. He helps you get a political appointment at an agency. You work there until the President changes, and then lateral into a firm as partner.

There are still a lot of ways you can end up in big law, if that’s what you want. But note that: (1) all of them start with working hard and being good at some other job; and (2) none of them are going to happen in the next couple years.

Wishing you the best of luck. And if you work hard and network, that luck will eventually show up.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

No need for me to add anything more. Read THIS and take it to heart. And DO NOT try to stalk hiring partners. You will be removed by security. At least at my old firm, they would have had you escorted out.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

[Anonymous]

1) Spend the next few months (i.e. all of spring semester) showing up at firms personally with my application materials, in a suit, and requesting to talk to the hiring partner. They will likely either put me off, or tell me flat out no. I should ignore that and continue to show up personally once a week and reiterate my interest face-to-face. I should follow that weekly stalking visit up with phone calls/emails every week, basically harassing them but politely

This is an insane plan. A better idea would be to look for people who graduated from your law school, are at a firm, and are relatively junior. Reach out and ask them if they would be willing to meet for coffee to talk about how they found their position and any advice they may have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a couple of people who went to work at small firms, worked hard and made an impression on the legal community where they worked. They traded their jobs at small firms for BigLaw jobs based on their work out of law school. Both of them are partners at their firms now.

This is what I did, coming from at top 15 law school. 17:28 is spot on. I essentially fell into her option #1. I did have way more practical experience in my first three years out of law school at a mid size firm, managing cases, taking depositions, arguing motions in court, albeit on smaller cases. My friends at the top firms reviewed documents and watched more senior attorneys do stuff. Find a job at a small or mid-size firm, look for some mentors there who you can learn practical skills from, take on as much responsibility as you can, and do a great job. Then, if the economy is better, it's a distinct possibility to lateral in to a more prestigious firm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a couple of people who went to work at small firms, worked hard and made an impression on the legal community where they worked. They traded their jobs at small firms for BigLaw jobs based on their work out of law school. Both of them are partners at their firms now.

This is what I did, coming from at top 15 law school. 17:28 is spot on. I essentially fell into her option #1. I did have way more practical experience in my first three years out of law school at a mid size firm, managing cases, taking depositions, arguing motions in court, albeit on smaller cases. My friends at the top firms reviewed documents and watched more senior attorneys do stuff. Find a job at a small or mid-size firm, look for some mentors there who you can learn practical skills from, take on as much responsibility as you can, and do a great job. Then, if the economy is better, it's a distinct possibility to lateral in to a more prestigious firm.

Someday, someone will provide a reasonable explanation for why anyone in her right mind would prefer a "more prestigious firm," where you can review documents and watch others do stuff, to a small or mid-size firm, where you can manage cases, take depositions, and argue motions in court.

[Anonymous]

Money. Having your own student loan payments paid off before it's time to send your own kids to college. With the debt burden from law school, some 6 figure associate salaries from Big Law firms still qualify for income-based loan repayment.

[Anonymous]

In case what I meant wasn't clear...the salaries at smaller firms are much smaller so the time to pay off any debt accrued is much longer.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to give me good advice in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In case what I meant wasn't clear...the salaries at smaller firms are much smaller so the time to pay off any debt accrued is much longer.

OP has no debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a couple of people who went to work at small firms, worked hard and made an impression on the legal community where they worked. They traded their jobs at small firms for BigLaw jobs based on their work out of law school. Both of them are partners at their firms now.

This is what I did, coming from at top 15 law school. 17:28 is spot on. I essentially fell into her option #1. I did have way more practical experience in my first three years out of law school at a mid size firm, managing cases, taking depositions, arguing motions in court, albeit on smaller cases. My friends at the top firms reviewed documents and watched more senior attorneys do stuff. Find a job at a small or mid-size firm, look for some mentors there who you can learn practical skills from, take on as much responsibility as you can, and do a great job. Then, if the economy is better, it's a distinct possibility to lateral in to a more prestigious firm.

Someday, someone will provide a reasonable explanation for why anyone in her right mind would prefer a "more prestigious firm," where you can review documents and watch others do stuff, to a small or mid-size firm, where you can manage cases, take depositions, and argue motions in court.

$

[Anonymous]

You need to think of a long game. You may want to end up in DC or NY, but try starting in another mid-sized city. You will have a better shot at getting into a better firm. P
Is bar associations in smaller markets are more active and permit you to actually network. Then, after a year or two at that firm, apply for a federal clerkship. You will the. Be on a better position to move to a large law firm.

As someone noted, large law firms have set rigid protocols for hiring first year associates that normally requires you to have been a member of the summer class. The rules for laterals, however, is more flexible.