Gen Xers - Do you find Taylor Swift’s music bland?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give you all an example: we are never getting back together.

It’s credited to Taylor Swift, Max Martin, and Shellback. Max Martin wrote the boy band songs in the 90s. These guys aren’t just producers; they’re songwriter-producers.

If you look at the personnel breakdown, you’ll see Taylor did the vocals, but those 2 guys did everything else.

She does not write her guitar parts, with very very few exceptions. She does essentially none of the arranging.

This isn’t unique to her. This is how most pop is done.

NP. Agree that it's not unique to Taylor Swift--or even to pop music--but I disagree to the extent that it's somehow a knock against her. Stevie Nicks has said numerous times over the years that she would write the lyrics to her songs and rely on Lindsay Buckingham or the whole band to add the music. She occasionally wrote parts of the melodies but has admitted she has no knowledge of chords or what to do beyond coming up with a few notes that she'd pluck out on a piano or guitar. That doesn't detract from her being known as a prolific songwriter or from all of the Fleetwood Mac and solo hits she is credited for.

I am middle-of-the-road on Taylor Swift and her music, but I don't think these arguments about her songwriting process or limitations are a legit criticism. Musicians who truly do it all are rare (RIP Prince!).

There’s a difference. Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham were in the band together. They were artistic collaborators.

I don’t see Taylor Swift acknowledging Max Martin or Shellback or Aaron Dessner as being artistic collaborators.

She claims to write her songs by herself.

DP. Of course she does! Have you ever watched “The Long Pond Studio Sessions”? It’s just TS, Antonoff, and Dessner in a documentary about the making of Folklore. She absolutely credits them on all of her songs, as well as any other collaborators. But she does indeed write her own lyrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give you all an example: we are never getting back together.

It’s credited to Taylor Swift, Max Martin, and Shellback. Max Martin wrote the boy band songs in the 90s. These guys aren’t just producers; they’re songwriter-producers.

If you look at the personnel breakdown, you’ll see Taylor did the vocals, but those 2 guys did everything else.

She does not write her guitar parts, with very very few exceptions. She does essentially none of the arranging.

This isn’t unique to her. This is how most pop is done.

NP. Agree that it's not unique to Taylor Swift--or even to pop music--but I disagree to the extent that it's somehow a knock against her. Stevie Nicks has said numerous times over the years that she would write the lyrics to her songs and rely on Lindsay Buckingham or the whole band to add the music. She occasionally wrote parts of the melodies but has admitted she has no knowledge of chords or what to do beyond coming up with a few notes that she'd pluck out on a piano or guitar. That doesn't detract from her being known as a prolific songwriter or from all of the Fleetwood Mac and solo hits she is credited for.

I am middle-of-the-road on Taylor Swift and her music, but I don't think these arguments about her songwriting process or limitations are a legit criticism. Musicians who truly do it all are rare (RIP Prince!).

There’s a difference. Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham were in the band together. They were artistic collaborators.

I don’t see Taylor Swift acknowledging Max Martin or Shellback or Aaron Dessner as being artistic collaborators.

She claims to write her songs by herself.

Are you joking?

+1
Right? It’s so clear the people saying nonsense like that have never taken a look at her album notes and credits. Or listened to her talking very openly about the whole process!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give you all an example: we are never getting back together.

It’s credited to Taylor Swift, Max Martin, and Shellback. Max Martin wrote the boy band songs in the 90s. These guys aren’t just producers; they’re songwriter-producers.

If you look at the personnel breakdown, you’ll see Taylor did the vocals, but those 2 guys did everything else.

She does not write her guitar parts, with very very few exceptions. She does essentially none of the arranging.

This isn’t unique to her. This is how most pop is done.

NP. Agree that it's not unique to Taylor Swift--or even to pop music--but I disagree to the extent that it's somehow a knock against her. Stevie Nicks has said numerous times over the years that she would write the lyrics to her songs and rely on Lindsay Buckingham or the whole band to add the music. She occasionally wrote parts of the melodies but has admitted she has no knowledge of chords or what to do beyond coming up with a few notes that she'd pluck out on a piano or guitar. That doesn't detract from her being known as a prolific songwriter or from all of the Fleetwood Mac and solo hits she is credited for.

I am middle-of-the-road on Taylor Swift and her music, but I don't think these arguments about her songwriting process or limitations are a legit criticism. Musicians who truly do it all are rare (RIP Prince!).

There’s a difference. Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham were in the band together. They were artistic collaborators.

I don’t see Taylor Swift acknowledging Max Martin or Shellback or Aaron Dessner as being artistic collaborators.

She claims to write her songs by herself.

DP. Of course she does! Have you ever watched “The Long Pond Studio Sessions”? It’s just TS, Antonoff, and Dessner in a documentary about the making of Folklore. She absolutely credits them on all of her songs, as well as any other collaborators. But she does indeed write her own lyrics.

Right? This person is being deliberately obtuse. She talks about her collaborators all the time. I posted earlier a clip of her playing Max Martin songs in her acoustic and talking about them in her Sweden show earlier this summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll give you all an example: we are never getting back together.

It’s credited to Taylor Swift, Max Martin, and Shellback. Max Martin wrote the boy band songs in the 90s. These guys aren’t just producers; they’re songwriter-producers.

If you look at the personnel breakdown, you’ll see Taylor did the vocals, but those 2 guys did everything else.

She does not write her guitar parts, with very very few exceptions. She does essentially none of the arranging.

This isn’t unique to her. This is how most pop is done.

NP. Agree that it's not unique to Taylor Swift--or even to pop music--but I disagree to the extent that it's somehow a knock against her. Stevie Nicks has said numerous times over the years that she would write the lyrics to her songs and rely on Lindsay Buckingham or the whole band to add the music. She occasionally wrote parts of the melodies but has admitted she has no knowledge of chords or what to do beyond coming up with a few notes that she'd pluck out on a piano or guitar. That doesn't detract from her being known as a prolific songwriter or from all of the Fleetwood Mac and solo hits she is credited for.

I am middle-of-the-road on Taylor Swift and her music, but I don't think these arguments about her songwriting process or limitations are a legit criticism. Musicians who truly do it all are rare (RIP Prince!).

There’s a difference. Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham were in the band together. They were artistic collaborators.

I don’t see Taylor Swift acknowledging Max Martin or Shellback or Aaron Dessner as being artistic collaborators.

She claims to write her songs by herself.

Are you joking?

Then why do the Swifties act like she’s the next coming of Paul McCartney?

Do they? I think they just like her for who she is and what she does and the talents she has.

+1
Imagine that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

[Anonymous]

Video of her writing songs for Reputation

[youtube] https://youtu.be/I4WlSnWtkt8?si=qLuNSbPTC7A772Du[/youtube]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

Oh come on. She’s no more generous than she legally needs to be. She’d be stupid to give up money.

This is my problem. You all act like she’s mother Theresa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

Oh come on. She’s no more generous than she legally needs to be. She’d be stupid to give up money.

This is my problem. You all act like she’s mother Theresa.

Not in the least. We just know when someone is making assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

Oh come on. She’s no more generous than she legally needs to be. She’d be stupid to give up money.

This is my problem. You all act like she’s mother Theresa.

Not in the least. We just know when someone is making assumptions.

You literally told us she gives credit where it’s due because she’s SO generous.

No honey — it’s because she legally has to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Gen Xer o find her music refreshing in that she actually writes it. I like that she is a singer/ songwriter in the vein of the musicians I heard first at home. I like that she’s business savvy, tells her story, makes no apologies for being female and doing exactly no one else’s bidding anymore. I like that she explores different genres of music for herself and has been successful in doing so.

I like that she is a good role model for my daughter by giving zero fs about what people like you think and doing it anyway, and becoming one of the most influential people while doing it.

And as you’re apparently gen X - don’t you remember your parents and grandparents lamenting the loss of all the best music while you were listening to Michael Jackson and Depeche Mode in your room? Every generation thinks the music that formed them was the best music.

She writes the lyrics. Not the music itself.

All of her songs start off with her picking out the melody on either the guitar or piano. Then they get more “fleshed out” in the studio - but she is absolutely the writer on them, whether entirely by herself or with credited collaborators.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63233361
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/taylor-swift-slams-claim-doesnt-write-songs-false-damaging-rcna13381

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

Oh come on. She’s no more generous than she legally needs to be. She’d be stupid to give up money.

This is my problem. You all act like she’s mother Theresa.

Not in the least. We just know when someone is making assumptions.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/taylor-swifts-secret-police

[Anonymous]

There’s nothing there musically, very mundane. I guess it’s about the lyrics, but I don’t listen to lyrics, just the voice as an instrument. It seems to be the same with a lot of artists. I don’t get Billy Eilish either, same reason. I like musicianship mostly, but there’s not much to be had with these types of artists. It seems to be largely about angst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

So she gets help. Big whoop. Still made 2 billion on the Eras tour. And you?

Seems to me it’s a big whoop, considering you’re all calling me sexist for pointing it out — which I only did to correct posters who said she writes her songs on her own.

DP. You are really tiresome. She does indeed write her own songs - the vast majority are written JUST by her, and the rest are co-written. You are the one who is incorrect here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

Oh come on. She’s no more generous than she legally needs to be. She’d be stupid to give up money.

This is my problem. You all act like she’s mother Theresa.

Yes, agreed, it’s your problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1977, and I did not like her music until Folklore/Evermore. But TTPD is one of the greatest breakup rock albums of our time. Seriously. You cannot credibly say that she is not a singer-songwriter - and she plays two instruments. It is what I choose to listen to every day? Is she Liz Phair? Rivers Cuomo? No. She is not jaded enough (or sarcastic enough) to be GenX - but she is talented and prolific - and so much of the criticism of her has a JDVance-esque sexism to it that cannot be ignored.

Yes she is a songwriter.

But she gets an enormous amount of help from her songwriter/producers.

And please stop calling me sexist for saying it.

I have dealt with so much crap as a female rock musician. I am not in the least bit sexist towards her.

She is the first to say this. And you are certainly minimizing her.

+1
When has she ever *not* said this? The PP seems to just want to argue. TS is known as a hugely generous person who always gives credit when it’s due and always builds up other people. Having producers doesn’t take away from the fact that she is, indeed, a songwriter.

Oh come on. She’s no more generous than she legally needs to be. She’d be stupid to give up money.

This is my problem. You all act like she’s mother Theresa.

Not in the least. We just know when someone is making assumptions.

You literally told us she gives credit where it’s due because she’s SO generous.

No honey — it’s because she legally has to.

Wait a minute. She goes way beyond just giving them credit for legal reasons. Examples were posted in the last few pages.

I do agree you have a problem though.