Gang Activity in Montgomery County Shcools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

It is because it shows that no matter what school you go to, statistically, your SAT score won't be all that different.

The thing is that this is not new information. There have been TONS of studies on student outcomes and the single biggest determinant is.....maternal education. That's it. Not how white your school is, or how high the overall test scores. Something no one can control.

Note that this is true of the USA, but not places with more class mobility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

It is because it shows that no matter what school you go to, statistically, your SAT score won't be all that different.

But but but...can't wait to hear what the Bethesda patents have to say about this!

PP here... I understand what they are saying in terms of peers, but numbers don't lie. Having stated that, however, there is something to be said about the whole school experience. I'm a PP who stated that I wouldn't want my child going to a very high FARMS school or a very low FARMs school because I think both have their own issues. Yes I know that all schools have issues, but I'm speaking about issues particular to SES.

From an SAT score perspective, it doesn't seem to matter that much what HS the kid goes to, but having peers who value education is important. Yes, I do know that non W schools have kids and families who value education. We live in a non W cluster.

I think the Bethesda parents would argue that most of the kids in those schools (or at least the parents) value education. It's having that critical mass of a larger student population who share that value. But, those schools also have other issues that I would rather not deal with, namely all the issues that comes with exposure to too much wealth.

We all pick and choose what's most important for our kid's education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

While that is cringe-worthy, I'm not sure that is what people are trying to say. Inevitably these threads end up with a bunch of well educated, reasonably high income parents yelling at each other. The ones from the western part of the country degrade the DCC and say things like if your kid goes to school with poor kids they will get a subpar education. I suspect these parents have very average kids who they are hoping will rub off on the high achieving kids at their W school because dammit they paid a lot for their house and hate their jobs and this better be freakin' worth it and the are feeling that is not happening so having rage black outs on DCUM help them feel better. These are the same people who eat their feelings. Sad all around.

So people try to point out, sorry to burst your bubble, but if your white kid raised by educated affluent parents were in a different school he or she would be doing about the same. Parenting and home influence determine success about a thousand-fold more than school.

What our schools should be striving to do is meet the needs of all kids, including ones who don't have strong support at home.

But we are trying to see whether the test scores reflect the education level of the student body. Not if the white kids would do the same no matter where they go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

It is because it shows that no matter what school you go to, statistically, your SAT score won't be all that different.

But but but...can't wait to hear what the Bethesda patents have to say about this!

PP here... I understand what they are saying in terms of peers, but numbers don't lie. Having stated that, however, there is something to be said about the whole school experience. I'm a PP who stated that I wouldn't want my child going to a very high FARMS school or a very low FARMs school because I think both have their own issues. Yes I know that all schools have issues, but I'm speaking about issues particular to SES.

From an SAT score perspective, it doesn't seem to matter that much what HS the kid goes to, but having peers who value education is important. Yes, I do know that non W schools have kids and families who value education. We live in a non W cluster.

I think the Bethesda parents would argue that most of the kids in those schools (or at least the parents) value education. It's having that critical mass of a larger student population who share that value. But, those schools also have other issues that I would rather not deal with, namely all the issues that comes with exposure to too much wealth.

We all pick and choose what's most important for our kid's education.

I strongly agree that having peers who value education is important. Peers can pull you up or they can drag you down. Statistically ~20% FARMS is where the rest of the class pulls up the FARMS students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

While that is cringe-worthy, I'm not sure that is what people are trying to say. Inevitably these threads end up with a bunch of well educated, reasonably high income parents yelling at each other. The ones from the western part of the country degrade the DCC and say things like if your kid goes to school with poor kids they will get a subpar education. I suspect these parents have very average kids who they are hoping will rub off on the high achieving kids at their W school because dammit they paid a lot for their house and hate their jobs and this better be freakin' worth it and the are feeling that is not happening so having rage black outs on DCUM help them feel better. These are the same people who eat their feelings. Sad all around.

So people try to point out, sorry to burst your bubble, but if your white kid raised by educated affluent parents were in a different school he or she would be doing about the same. Parenting and home influence determine success about a thousand-fold more than school.

What our schools should be striving to do is meet the needs of all kids, including ones who don't have strong support at home.

Yes, out of context it sounds like the poster only cares about white kids, but the point was being made that middle class kids are likely to do well in a BCC or in a DCC school. Many points are well made in this thread, but they get lost upthread, only to have to be made again in response to a another poster, so it never ends, especially when we are wasting our time responding to the type of people you mention. Ha. It is kind of fun though.

That poster talking about white kids might well have been the same person saying that the true measure of a school is how well it educates children from a lower socioeconomic background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

While that is cringe-worthy, I'm not sure that is what people are trying to say. Inevitably these threads end up with a bunch of well educated, reasonably high income parents yelling at each other. The ones from the western part of the country degrade the DCC and say things like if your kid goes to school with poor kids they will get a subpar education. I suspect these parents have very average kids who they are hoping will rub off on the high achieving kids at their W school because dammit they paid a lot for their house and hate their jobs and this better be freakin' worth it and the are feeling that is not happening so having rage black outs on DCUM help them feel better. These are the same people who eat their feelings. Sad all around.

So people try to point out, sorry to burst your bubble, but if your white kid raised by educated affluent parents were in a different school he or she would be doing about the same. Parenting and home influence determine success about a thousand-fold more than school.

What our schools should be striving to do is meet the needs of all kids, including ones who don't have strong support at home.

Yes, out of context it sounds like the poster only cares about white kids, but the point was being made that middle class kids are likely to do well in a BCC or in a DCC school. Many points are well made in this thread, but they get lost upthread, only to have to be made again in response to a another poster, so it never ends, especially when we are wasting our time responding to the type of people you mention. Ha. It is kind of fun though.

That poster talking about white kids might well have been the same person saying that the true measure of a school is how well it educates children from a lower socioeconomic background.

Out of context? They literally said it doesn’t matter if my kid goes to a crappy school, Their whiteness will counter act the poor results for the colored kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2016 SAT scores for mcps:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Scroll down to page 19 where scores are broken out by school and race.

At Einstein, which is a majority-minority school with a highish FARMS rate and NO magnet program, white kids have an average SAT score of 1821.

These students aren't hurting and are college ready.

For comparison, white students' scores at other schools without magnets:
WJ 1831
Wootton 1822
Churchill 1895
Whitman 1932
BCC 1864
Sherwood 1689

Can this thread be done now, please.

All I see is Einstein had the lowest score, other than Sherwood. Also there are so few white kids at Einstein it isn’t really a fair pool. What ever limited resources get broken out for the handful of middle class families, where schools like Whitman where every kids every kid need that level of enrichment. Also I love how Blair parents take great pride in the accomplishments of West county kids that are bussed to the school. Seems sort of disingenuous, you know where there are lots of high achieving kids like the west county kids you think makes Blair so special? West county, the schools there are filled with them.


http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2017/Grand-Prize-in-Science-Competition-Goes-to-Bethesda-Teen-for-Work-on-Auction-Security/

Did you see the score for white kids at Blair ? 1971
The vast majority of them are in Takoma Park and Silver Spring not "west county kids..."

Also, that kid won because he went to Blair. He knew he could not have that opportunity if he stayed in home school.
When was the last time a "W" school won first prize?

Yah that just isn’t supported by facts
Last year there were 658 white kids at Blair out of 2952 students. There are 500 magnet kids with most of them white or Asian so let’s say about half of the white kids at Blair are in the magnet. And most of those are out of bounds from Blair as over 50% of the kids come from outside the DCC which means that Blair’s white scores are mostly magnet with is more Bethesda kids than not. I will admit I saw no way to pull the Asian and white magnet numbers apart which comprise most of the program.

[Anonymous]

Out of context? They literally said it doesn’t matter if my kid goes to a crappy school, Their whiteness will counter act the poor results for the colored kids

Not exactly. The point of multiple PPs is that MCPS does a pretty good job with middle class white/Asian kids at every school in the district, and outcomes are pretty much the same.

Most MCPS schools do a pretty poor job with poor kids and kids of color, and especially poor kids of color.

There are schools that do a great job with BOTH middle class kids AND poor kids, but those are fairly rare and you need to dig into the data to find them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Out of context? They literally said it doesn’t matter if my kid goes to a crappy school, Their whiteness will counter act the poor results for the colored kids

Not exactly. The point of multiple PPs is that MCPS does a pretty good job with middle class white/Asian kids at every school in the district, and outcomes are pretty much the same.

Most MCPS schools do a pretty poor job with poor kids and kids of color, and especially poor kids of color.

There are schools that do a great job with BOTH middle class kids AND poor kids, but those are fairly rare and you need to dig into the data to find them.

I would like to find those schools , but don't know how to go about it. Any help will be appreciated. For example,

How will you go about comparing Churchill, RM, WJ, Wootton here using some metric which indicates school doing a good job with everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

While that is cringe-worthy, I'm not sure that is what people are trying to say. Inevitably these threads end up with a bunch of well educated, reasonably high income parents yelling at each other. The ones from the western part of the country degrade the DCC and say things like if your kid goes to school with poor kids they will get a subpar education. I suspect these parents have very average kids who they are hoping will rub off on the high achieving kids at their W school because dammit they paid a lot for their house and hate their jobs and this better be freakin' worth it and the are feeling that is not happening so having rage black outs on DCUM help them feel better. These are the same people who eat their feelings. Sad all around.

So people try to point out, sorry to burst your bubble, but if your white kid raised by educated affluent parents were in a different school he or she would be doing about the same. Parenting and home influence determine success about a thousand-fold more than school.

What our schools should be striving to do is meet the needs of all kids, including ones who don't have strong support at home.

Yes, out of context it sounds like the poster only cares about white kids, but the point was being made that middle class kids are likely to do well in a BCC or in a DCC school. Many points are well made in this thread, but they get lost upthread, only to have to be made again in response to a another poster, so it never ends, especially when we are wasting our time responding to the type of people you mention. Ha. It is kind of fun though.

That poster talking about white kids might well have been the same person saying that the true measure of a school is how well it educates children from a lower socioeconomic background.

Out of context? They literally said it doesn’t matter if my kid goes to a crappy school, Their whiteness will counter act the poor results for the colored kids

The context is responding to people saying that DCC schools are inferior and are saying that all things considered, a kid from the west part of the county, which is overwhelmingly white and middle class to wealthy, would not do well for themselves at a DCC school, that they would have to lower their expectations, that they would not be as well prepared to take their place in society, that in fact parents who buy property near DCC schools lie about the quality of the schools in a desperate attempt to keep the property values up on their "shit shacks." The poster just pointed out how that is wrong and in that in fact the schools in DCC are perfectly fine.

[Anonymous]

MCPS actually does a good job educating black, Hispanic, and FARMS students when compared to student performance nationally.

A more interesting question is why high performing (high gpas and passing AP scores) students of color still do not perform at the same level as white peers of similar ability.

Please also consider that even when students don't perform "well" in AP classes (scores lower than 3), these students report being better prepared for college for having taken the classes.

All info referenced comes from Jay Matthews education column over the years.

[Anonymous]

I know this thread wasn't really supposed to be about whether Einstein is any good, but since it's gone off on that tangent I think I should point out that last year's graduating class included kids who went to Harvard, Princeton, King's College London, Vassar, Wellesley, and UVA: http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/099fed_6224d4a36d284a5ba186b2baa061d6a6.pdf From the sound of things on this thread, this may come as a surprise to some people.

Because cost is a real factor for parents, the most popular college destinations for graduates were the MD publics including UMCP, UMBC, Towson, St. Marys, Frostburg, Salisbury, and of course MC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2016 SAT scores for mcps:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Scroll down to page 19 where scores are broken out by school and race.

At Einstein, which is a majority-minority school with a highish FARMS rate and NO magnet program, white kids have an average SAT score of 1821.

These students aren't hurting and are college ready.

For comparison, white students' scores at other schools without magnets:
WJ 1831
Wootton 1822
Churchill 1895
Whitman 1932
BCC 1864
Sherwood 1689

Can this thread be done now, please.

All I see is Einstein had the lowest score, other than Sherwood. Also there are so few white kids at Einstein it isn’t really a fair pool. What ever limited resources get broken out for the handful of middle class families, where schools like Whitman where every kids every kid need that level of enrichment. Also I love how Blair parents take great pride in the accomplishments of West county kids that are bussed to the school. Seems sort of disingenuous, you know where there are lots of high achieving kids like the west county kids you think makes Blair so special? West county, the schools there are filled with them.


http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2017/Grand-Prize-in-Science-Competition-Goes-to-Bethesda-Teen-for-Work-on-Auction-Security/

Did you see the score for white kids at Blair ? 1971
The vast majority of them are in Takoma Park and Silver Spring not "west county kids..."

Also, that kid won because he went to Blair. He knew he could not have that opportunity if he stayed in home school.
When was the last time a "W" school won first prize?

Yah that just isn’t supported by facts
Last year there were 658 white kids at Blair out of 2952 students. There are 500 magnet kids with most of them white or Asian so let’s say about half of the white kids at Blair are in the magnet. And most of those are out of bounds from Blair as over 50% of the kids come from outside the DCC which means that Blair’s white scores are mostly magnet with is more Bethesda kids than not. I will admit I saw no way to pull the Asian and white magnet numbers apart which comprise most of the program.

Talk about not being supported by facts. You are conveniently leaving out all the magnet kids from other parts of the county including the eastern part. And you are assuming all the white kids are magnet kids. Your post makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

It is because it shows that no matter what school you go to, statistically, your SAT score won't be all that different.

But but but...can't wait to hear what the Bethesda patents have to say about this!

PP here... I understand what they are saying in terms of peers, but numbers don't lie. Having stated that, however, there is something to be said about the whole school experience. I'm a PP who stated that I wouldn't want my child going to a very high FARMS school or a very low FARMs school because I think both have their own issues. Yes I know that all schools have issues, but I'm speaking about issues particular to SES.

From an SAT score perspective, it doesn't seem to matter that much what HS the kid goes to, but having peers who value education is important. Yes, I do know that non W schools have kids and families who value education. We live in a non W cluster.

I think the Bethesda parents would argue that most of the kids in those schools (or at least the parents) value education. It's having that critical mass of a larger student population who share that value. But, those schools also have other issues that I would rather not deal with, namely all the issues that comes with exposure to too much wealth.

We all pick and choose what's most important for our kid's education.

I strongly agree that having peers who value education is important. Peers can pull you up or they can drag you down. Statistically ~20% FARMS is where the rest of the class pulls up the FARMS students.

PP here.. I agree .. about 20% is the max threshold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2016 SAT scores for mcps:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Scroll down to page 19 where scores are broken out by school and race.

At Einstein, which is a majority-minority school with a highish FARMS rate and NO magnet program, white kids have an average SAT score of 1821.

These students aren't hurting and are college ready.

For comparison, white students' scores at other schools without magnets:
WJ 1831
Wootton 1822
Churchill 1895
Whitman 1932
BCC 1864
Sherwood 1689

Can this thread be done now, please.

All I see is Einstein had the lowest score, other than Sherwood. Also there are so few white kids at Einstein it isn’t really a fair pool. What ever limited resources get broken out for the handful of middle class families, where schools like Whitman where every kids every kid need that level of enrichment. Also I love how Blair parents take great pride in the accomplishments of West county kids that are bussed to the school. Seems sort of disingenuous, you know where there are lots of high achieving kids like the west county kids you think makes Blair so special? West county, the schools there are filled with them.


http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2017/Grand-Prize-in-Science-Competition-Goes-to-Bethesda-Teen-for-Work-on-Auction-Security/

Did you see the score for white kids at Blair ? 1971
The vast majority of them are in Takoma Park and Silver Spring not "west county kids..."

Also, that kid won because he went to Blair. He knew he could not have that opportunity if he stayed in home school.
When was the last time a "W" school won first prize?

Yah that just isn’t supported by facts
Last year there were 658 white kids at Blair out of 2952 students. There are 500 magnet kids with most of them white or Asian so let’s say about half of the white kids at Blair are in the magnet. And most of those are out of bounds from Blair as over 50% of the kids come from outside the DCC which means that Blair’s white scores are mostly magnet with is more Bethesda kids than not. I will admit I saw no way to pull the Asian and white magnet numbers apart which comprise most of the program.

I think it's your post that's not supported by fact.
To begin: the majority of Blair magnet is from the DCC, not Bethesda.
And the rest of the white population is from the DCC.

Hate to bust your Bethesda bubbles