Gang Activity in Montgomery County Shcools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2016 SAT scores for mcps:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Scroll down to page 19 where scores are broken out by school and race.

At Einstein, which is a majority-minority school with a highish FARMS rate and NO magnet program, white kids have an average SAT score of 1821.

These students aren't hurting and are college ready.

For comparison, white students' scores at other schools without magnets:
WJ 1831
Wootton 1822
Churchill 1895
Whitman 1932
BCC 1864
Sherwood 1689

Can this thread be done now, please.

All I see is Einstein had the lowest score, other than Sherwood. Also there are so few white kids at Einstein it isn’t really a fair pool. What ever limited resources get broken out for the handful of middle class families, where schools like Whitman where every kids every kid need that level of enrichment. Also I love how Blair parents take great pride in the accomplishments of West county kids that are bussed to the school. Seems sort of disingenuous, you know where there are lots of high achieving kids like the west county kids you think makes Blair so special? West county, the schools there are filled with them.


http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2017/Grand-Prize-in-Science-Competition-Goes-to-Bethesda-Teen-for-Work-on-Auction-Security/

I'm no statistician, but is a 10 point difference between Einstein and WJ significant? I'm thinking not.

I agree this should be a thread stopper - but apparently it is not to those desperate to justify buying in Bethesda or Potomac, to prove that they and their kids are far superior (not just academically) to those of us in our shit shacks.

These numbers are incredibly helpful. People love Wooten which has a 1 point difference over Einstein. Whitman is significantly higher but I wonder how many students at Whitman take expensive prep classes compared to the students at Einstein.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2016 SAT scores for mcps:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Scroll down to page 19 where scores are broken out by school and race.

At Einstein, which is a majority-minority school with a highish FARMS rate and NO magnet program, white kids have an average SAT score of 1821.

These students aren't hurting and are college ready.

For comparison, white students' scores at other schools without magnets:
WJ 1831
Wootton 1822
Churchill 1895
Whitman 1932
BCC 1864
Sherwood 1689

Can this thread be done now, please.

All I see is Einstein had the lowest score, other than Sherwood. Also there are so few white kids at Einstein it isn’t really a fair pool. What ever limited resources get broken out for the handful of middle class families, where schools like Whitman where every kids every kid need that level of enrichment. Also I love how Blair parents take great pride in the accomplishments of West county kids that are bussed to the school. Seems sort of disingenuous, you know where there are lots of high achieving kids like the west county kids you think makes Blair so special? West county, the schools there are filled with them.


http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2017/Grand-Prize-in-Science-Competition-Goes-to-Bethesda-Teen-for-Work-on-Auction-Security/

I hate to break it to you, but the kid from Bethesda chose to go to Blair rather than attend his W home school-- ostensibly because he or his parents thought it was better academically. Even with all those pesky low-income kids and the high-achieving but clearly less special DCC kids (lots of whom also attend the magnet, btw).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to break it to you, but the kid from Bethesda chose to go to Blair rather than attend his W home school-- ostensibly because he or his parents thought it was better academically. Even with all those pesky low-income kids and the high-achieving but clearly less special DCC kids (lots of whom also attend the magnet, btw).

Why are low-income kids pesky?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to break it to you, but the kid from Bethesda chose to go to Blair rather than attend his W home school-- ostensibly because he or his parents thought it was better academically. Even with all those pesky low-income kids and the high-achieving but clearly less special DCC kids (lots of whom also attend the magnet, btw).

Why are low-income kids pesky?

DP. Because they're vectors of poverty who infect the children of middle-class educated parents with their no-'count, shiftless ways. Or so a PP says, up thread.

[Anonymous]

Are there really "so few white kids at Einstein?"

Our kids are young - elementary - we are zoned for Einstein. In our elementary there are tons of white kids. I can't think of a friend of DD who doesn't have a parent with a PhD either. Lots of professors and fed PhDs in our group. There are a lot of low income kids too, but our rec league soccer, school events, sleep overs, scouts, camps, etc....we are surrounded by white kids with highly educated parents. And I wouldn't call many middle class. I don't think two parents earning 6 figures qualifies. I know in this expensive area it means you are more middle of the pack.

Honestly not being defensive - no real dog in this fight as there is a good chance my DH's job will take us out of state in the next five years and we won't be here for high school...but I don't think there is a complete accurate picture being painted here.

[Anonymous]

Poverty is contagious, go live in SE and send you kids to school there, of course you wouldn’t... why is that? Also as proof, go read the Atlantic’s artical on poverty’s recidivism rates for African Americans which it attributes it heavily to their inclination to live in high poverty areas even after breaking into the middle class due to their desire to live among other AA.

I think it is a misleading that higher SES kids do better on test scores in low SES schools as it comes down to exsposure to information which is higher in those house holds. While the test scores are not impacted as much, the life standards and environmental impacts are more likely to align with the lower SES crowd due to peer influence which kids are highly susceptible to.

Aritical. Artical. Artical.

Exsposure. Exsposure. Exsposure.

Wow.

Oh, and if you actually read the ARTICLE about how class mobility among Black Americans you'll see that structural racism is the issue. Not "inclination." Structural racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the 2016 SAT scores for mcps:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Scroll down to page 19 where scores are broken out by school and race.

At Einstein, which is a majority-minority school with a highish FARMS rate and NO magnet program, white kids have an average SAT score of 1821.

These students aren't hurting and are college ready.

For comparison, white students' scores at other schools without magnets:
WJ 1831
Wootton 1822
Churchill 1895
Whitman 1932
BCC 1864
Sherwood 1689

Can this thread be done now, please.

All I see is Einstein had the lowest score, other than Sherwood. Also there are so few white kids at Einstein it isn’t really a fair pool. What ever limited resources get broken out for the handful of middle class families, where schools like Whitman where every kids every kid need that level of enrichment. Also I love how Blair parents take great pride in the accomplishments of West county kids that are bussed to the school. Seems sort of disingenuous, you know where there are lots of high achieving kids like the west county kids you think makes Blair so special? West county, the schools there are filled with them.


http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2017/Grand-Prize-in-Science-Competition-Goes-to-Bethesda-Teen-for-Work-on-Auction-Security/

Did you see the score for white kids at Blair ? 1971
The vast majority of them are in Takoma Park and Silver Spring not "west county kids..."

Also, that kid won because he went to Blair. He knew he could not have that opportunity if he stayed in home school.
When was the last time a "W" school won first prize?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there really "so few white kids at Einstein?"

Our kids are young - elementary - we are zoned for Einstein. In our elementary there are tons of white kids. I can't think of a friend of DD who doesn't have a parent with a PhD either. Lots of professors and fed PhDs in our group. There are a lot of low income kids too, but our rec league soccer, school events, sleep overs, scouts, camps, etc....we are surrounded by white kids with highly educated parents. And I wouldn't call many middle class. I don't think two parents earning 6 figures qualifies. I know in this expensive area it means you are more middle of the pack.

Honestly not being defensive - no real dog in this fight as there is a good chance my DH's job will take us out of state in the next five years and we won't be here for high school...but I don't think there is a complete accurate picture being painted here.

A little over 19% of kids at Einstein are white (meaning non-Hispanic white, because that's how MCPS classifies). Is that "so few"? If you expect your kid's high school to be majority non-Hispanic white, then it is, I guess.

For reference, the MCPS schools (not Einstein) my non-Hispanic white kids attend are 22% and 17% non-Hispanic white. I'm not panicking, and neither are my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there really "so few white kids at Einstein?"

Our kids are young - elementary - we are zoned for Einstein. In our elementary there are tons of white kids. I can't think of a friend of DD who doesn't have a parent with a PhD either. Lots of professors and fed PhDs in our group. There are a lot of low income kids too, but our rec league soccer, school events, sleep overs, scouts, camps, etc....we are surrounded by white kids with highly educated parents. And I wouldn't call many middle class. I don't think two parents earning 6 figures qualifies. I know in this expensive area it means you are more middle of the pack.

Honestly not being defensive - no real dog in this fight as there is a good chance my DH's job will take us out of state in the next five years and we won't be here for high school...but I don't think there is a complete accurate picture being painted here.

A little over 19% of kids at Einstein are white (meaning non-Hispanic white, because that's how MCPS classifies). Is that "so few"? If you expect your kid's high school to be majority non-Hispanic white, then it is, I guess.

For reference, the MCPS schools (not Einstein) my non-Hispanic white kids attend are 22% and 17% non-Hispanic white. I'm not panicking, and neither are my kids.

I'm the poster you are responding, and agree 19% is not that few. I would be fine with this demographic should we end up not moving out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, as has been reiterated many times in this thread. A child can thrive and do very well in many environments, and the idea that a kid who goes to Blair is automatically getting a lesser education or will be less prepared to take their place in society than a kid who went to Whitman just doesn't hold water.

A few exceptions at Blair may do as well or better than kids at Whitman, but statistically speaking, a kid that goes to Blair is not prepared as well as a kid that goes to Whitman. Look at the student body as populations, do not judge based on the fringes.

Your opinion only convinces me that my kid is doing just fine where he is. Why are you trying so hard to prove your subjective point?

+1 The thing is, you can't win an argument with someone like this. If you point out some of the great colleges that Blair grads attend, PP will just tell you it must be the (Bethesda or Potomac based) magnet students. If you talk about how happy your child is there, and how well they've done, PP will tell you that you are imagining things, or just have low standards.

You literally cannot win, even with data, because PP doesn't want to admit that middle class families who choose to live on the east side of the county might be making a smart choice.

I am zoned to Richard Montgomery HS (which is an ok school, but not great). I believe test scores are meaningful. If you have a better quantitative metric on how to evaluate school quality, I still haven't heard any.

I live in RM cluster. You do understand that test scores are mostly a reflection of the SES of the student body? What you are saying is that you think a school is only good if the lower income kids who don't have the support and opportunities at home, and probably parents who are less educated, to have similar test scores as those kids who have lots of enrichment and educated parents. Seriously?

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/160929%20SAT%20Exam%20Participation%20Perform.pdf

Pg 16 shows you the SAT score breakdown by FARMS in each HS. RM and QO have somewhat similar FARMS rate and very similar SAT scores for this group. Then compare the test scores between RM and Churchill for FARMS students. You will see RM does much better. Is RM the best at educating lower income students? No. But it's certainly doing pretty well by that metric.

Lower income students don't fare any better at Churchill than they do at Gaithersburg HS by this measure, and the oft deried Watkins Mill HS shows better scores for FARMS students than for Churchill.

Given that there are some RM cluster students in the IB program, it's a bit harder to extrapolate how well the RM cluster in bound only students do on the SATs. I don't know the demographics of the IB student body well enough to come up with an accurate number, but the numbers for the FARMs students is pretty telling.

I don’t get how people use the argument “test scores are only tied to SES” and then send their kids to a school with a bunch of really poor kids. SES is environmental as much as inherently germane to the family. You are undercutting your SES by not taking advantage of it, it doesn’t make immune your kids immune for the drags of the system if they are exsposed to it.

Say what?

Socioeconomic status refers to the family of origin's economic situation. That is what studies look at vis-a-vis school performance and success.

Poverty is not contagious.

Poverty is contagious, go live in SE and send you kids to school there, of course you wouldn’t... why is that? Also as proof, go read the Atlantic’s artical on poverty’s recidivism rates for African Americans which it attributes it heavily to their inclination to live in high poverty areas even after breaking into the middle class due to their desire to live among other AA.

I think it is a misleading that higher SES kids do better on test scores in low SES schools as it comes down to exsposure to information which is higher in those house holds. While the test scores are not impacted as much, the life standards and environmental impacts are more likely to align with the lower SES crowd due to peer influence which kids are highly susceptible to.

Nothing you wrote is supported by data.

Affluent white kids at Einstein score the same on standardized tests as do affluent white kids at W schools. That is a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Poverty is contagious, go live in SE and send you kids to school there, of course you wouldn’t... why is that? Also as proof, go read the Atlantic’s artical on poverty’s recidivism rates for African Americans which it attributes it heavily to their inclination to live in high poverty areas even after breaking into the middle class due to their desire to live among other AA.

I think it is a misleading that higher SES kids do better on test scores in low SES schools as it comes down to exsposure to information which is higher in those house holds. While the test scores are not impacted as much, the life standards and environmental impacts are more likely to align with the lower SES crowd due to peer influence which kids are highly susceptible to.

I can't afford to live in SE. Have you looked at real estate prices and rents there lately?

[Anonymous]

I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

It is because it shows that no matter what school you go to, statistically, your SAT score won't be all that different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

While that is cringe-worthy, I'm not sure that is what people are trying to say. Inevitably these threads end up with a bunch of well educated, reasonably high income parents yelling at each other. The ones from the western part of the country degrade the DCC and say things like if your kid goes to school with poor kids they will get a subpar education. I suspect these parents have very average kids who they are hoping will rub off on the high achieving kids at their W school because dammit they paid a lot for their house and hate their jobs and this better be freakin' worth it and the are feeling that is not happening so having rage black outs on DCUM help them feel better. These are the same people who eat their feelings. Sad all around.

So people try to point out, sorry to burst your bubble, but if your white kid raised by educated affluent parents were in a different school he or she would be doing about the same. Parenting and home influence determine success about a thousand-fold more than school.

What our schools should be striving to do is meet the needs of all kids, including ones who don't have strong support at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the idea that all the schools are doing a good job because the white kids have similarly high SAT scores. This is really a thread stopper.

It is because it shows that no matter what school you go to, statistically, your SAT score won't be all that different.

But but but...can't wait to hear what the Bethesda patents have to say about this!