Are We Crazy for Questioning a $250k US Degree and looking abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I realize this is an old, reactivated thread, but anyone who thinks it is always cheaper overseas should check online before jumping in. St. Andres is now $66,000 a year for international students, so $264K (not including airfare) and Oxford is now $81,765 pounds, so x 3 years. A better option is to do state flagship for undergrad and grad overseas.

First of all NOBODY here (just ready the whole thread) insisted or said that it is “ always cheaper overseas “. You are the first one that said that.

Clearly you are you quite grasping the point being made here by a lot of people. The avg kid going to St Andrews or elsewhere in the UK or Europe is NOT the same kid that is forgoing their state flagship to do so. Please…..different universes…..these kids are kids that likely going to be full pay at T100 US privates. Don’t be naive.

Po is correctly responding to OP’s claims: “the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate.”

And there is nothing wrong with OP claims…even at this exchange rate, it is still true. A place like Exeter at 24k Pounds x 3 years (73k pounds) is still less than $100k dollars..and you get your degree…..

PP cherry-picked two schools to make a point (with one being a 4-yr degree) and even then. Still cheaper that ANY top 100 Private full pay uni in the US. As a PP mentioned, there very little IF ANY crossover between in state flagship uni applicants and kids who go abroad….noen of these kids are making these decisions (maybe. Tiny percentage). I have had 3 kids study in the UK from California. None of them had friends that made decisions to attend their UK school that were forgoing a State Flagship to do so. Different crowds….whether you like it or not.

There are plenty of these kids in Virginia, which is where a lot of these posters are located.

Even if there is. this is a very TINY minority. My 3 kids did not have one American friend in between them that had even applied to their flagship state university in the US.Sure there might be a tiny crossover in VA, but that is a very minor %. The vast majority of kids going abroad are not comparing it to their State uni..

St Andrew’s has the program with William and Mary plus a year abroad there for those who aren’t in the program.

Why are you ranting about this. You sound nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I realize this is an old, reactivated thread, but anyone who thinks it is always cheaper overseas should check online before jumping in. St. Andres is now $66,000 a year for international students, so $264K (not including airfare) and Oxford is now $81,765 pounds, so x 3 years. A better option is to do state flagship for undergrad and grad overseas.

First of all NOBODY here (just ready the whole thread) insisted or said that it is “ always cheaper overseas “. You are the first one that said that.

Clearly you are you quite grasping the point being made here by a lot of people. The avg kid going to St Andrews or elsewhere in the UK or Europe is NOT the same kid that is forgoing their state flagship to do so. Please…..different universes…..these kids are kids that likely going to be full pay at T100 US privates. Don’t be naive.

Po is correctly responding to OP’s claims: “the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate.”

And there is nothing wrong with OP claims…even at this exchange rate, it is still true. A place like Exeter at 24k Pounds x 3 years (73k pounds) is still less than $100k dollars..and you get your degree…..

PP cherry-picked two schools to make a point (with one being a 4-yr degree) and even then. Still cheaper that ANY top 100 Private full pay uni in the US. As a PP mentioned, there very little IF ANY crossover between in state flagship uni applicants and kids who go abroad….noen of these kids are making these decisions (maybe. Tiny percentage). I have had 3 kids study in the UK from California. None of them had friends that made decisions to attend their UK school that were forgoing a State Flagship to do so. Different crowds….whether you like it or not.

There are plenty of these kids in Virginia, which is where a lot of these posters are located.

Even if there is. this is a very TINY minority. My 3 kids did not have one American friend in between them that had even applied to their flagship state university in the US.Sure there might be a tiny crossover in VA, but that is a very minor %. The vast majority of kids going abroad are not comparing it to their State uni..

St Andrew’s has the program with William and Mary plus a year abroad there for those who aren’t in the program.

Why are you ranting about this. You sound nuts.

Nobody is ranting about anything….only countering the goofballs who keep saying over and over again “why not just apply to your local Flagship”……

[Anonymous]

My kid is going to a US private but I feel the need to echo a point made above: some of us in this DC forum live in DC and don’t have a a state flagship! This is a DC forum! People should assume some of us live in DC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to a US private but I feel the need to echo a point made above: some of us in this DC forum live in DC and don’t have a a state flagship! This is a DC forum! People should assume some of us live in DC!

There is UDC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Notable European Universities by Country / Area
• Switzerland: ETH Zurich, EPFL
• United Kingdom: Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, King’s, etc.
• Germany: Technical University of Munich (TUM) ; Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich (LMU) ; Heidelberg University ; Humboldt (Berlin)
• Belgium / Netherlands / Belgium: KU Leuven 
• Sweden / Scandinavia: Karolinska InstituteP

Adding a few German and Dutch Universities that are really great. Humboldt University Berlin, University of Tuebingen (Germany).
For Engineering: TU Delft (Netherlands) and Aachen University (Germany) are also excellent.

Also Bocconi, Milan, Sapienza in Italy. U of Amsterdam is also top notch. Don’t forget St Gallen (HSG) in Switzerland.
Basically every UK uni ranked in their TOP 10 internal rankings (Guardian/Times/CUG).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BTW, I only know about St Andrews, but they allow you to pay tuition with a 4 pmt installment plan using a credit card w no additional fees….plus as mentioned above one of the only UK unis you can get US student loans to cover it…

Where do you get that idea? I saw the Dept of ED list when my kid got a student loan from FAFSA. It’s enormous. What UK schools are not covered?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to a US private but I feel the need to echo a point made above: some of us in this DC forum live in DC and don’t have a a state flagship! This is a DC forum! People should assume some of us live in DC!

[url]There is UDC.

[b]

And DC Tag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to a US private but I feel the need to echo a point made above: some of us in this DC forum live in DC and don’t have a a state flagship! This is a DC forum! People should assume some of us live in DC!

There is UDC.

That is a community college, not a state flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW, I only know about St Andrews, but they allow you to pay tuition with a 4 pmt installment plan using a credit card w no additional fees….plus as mentioned above one of the only UK unis you can get US student loans to cover it…

Where do you get that idea? I saw the Dept of ED list when my kid got a student loan from FAFSA. It’s enormous. What UK schools are not covered?

yes, PP was misinformed. There are close to 100 unis in the UK that are title IV programs allowing you to borrow in the US to pay for your studies in the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey everyone,
Following up on the conversations I see around here and other places about why more US students are looking at universities overseas. I've been going down the rabbit hole on this with my husband and my kids. My son is a Junior and daughter a Freshman. Thye have both brought up the possibility of maybe going abroad for college. My husband went to grad school in the UK and Italy so he is all for it. I’m not yet sold on it.

While it's tempting to focus on the positives, I think it's smarter to start with the real-world downsides. The biggest one for me is the career question. Let's be honest, if you go to Oxford, Cambridge, or LSE, your degree will open doors anywhere. But what if you go to a really solid, but less famous, university in the UK, Netherlands, Italy or Canada? How do grads from those schools do when they try to find a job back in the States? I worry that a hiring manager in, say, Chicago might just toss a resume because they don't recognize the school's name.

You're also thousands of miles away from US-based career fairs and the alumni network that helps people land their first job. A college consultant who specializes in EU/Canadian and UK schools actually told us that outside of Oxbridge and LSE/Imperial, we should focus only on the top 12 schools in the UK or the top 3 in each of the other EU countries. Her reasoning was that all US grad schools and the vast majority of top US companies know these specific schools, even if the general public doesn't. She said the real issue is with local or regional employers who won't recognize the name. But her point was, if your goal is to work for a local company back home, then why go abroad in the first place?

Beyond that, you're obviously giving up the traditional "American college experience." The whole campus life, dorm culture, college sports, and clubs are just a different world over there. And we can't ignore the personal side. It's a huge move. You have to deal with visa paperwork, international banking, and the very real possibility of getting homesick and not having your support system a quick flight away. It’s a serious trade-off that goes way beyond academics. This mom is a little concerned.

Now with the scary stuff out of the way, the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate. But beyond the practical stuff, I realize there's the huge benefit of actually living in a different culture for three or four years. I have to imagine that navigating a new country, becoming more independent, and seeing the world from a completely different perspective forces you to grow as an individual in a way that staying in the US just can't replicate. For kids with an interest in global business, History, Languages or international relations, this experience seems like a no-brainer. You'd be living and breathing cross-cultural communication and could potentially pick up another language, skills that can really set you apart.

But the last piece of the puzzle I was curious about was the return plan. It seems like coming back to the US for a graduate degree is a well-worn path. US Master's programs and even J.D. programs are very used to seeing applicants with international degrees. I wonder how many kids simply stay in Canada/EU/UK after graduation. Would love to hear from parents here who have had this experience before with their kids.

Sorry for the long post.

The answer is NO. You are not crazy. And the price is more like $350 to $400k for full pay students at Private US unis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I realize this is an old, reactivated thread, but anyone who thinks it is always cheaper overseas should check online before jumping in. St. Andres is now $66,000 a year for international students, so $264K (not including airfare) and Oxford is now $81,765 pounds, so x 3 years. A better option is to do state flagship for undergrad and grad overseas.

First of all NOBODY here (just ready the whole thread) insisted or said that it is “ always cheaper overseas “. You are the first one that said that.

Clearly you are you quite grasping the point being made here by a lot of people. The avg kid going to St Andrews or elsewhere in the UK or Europe is NOT the same kid that is forgoing their state flagship to do so. Please…..different universes…..these kids are kids that likely going to be full pay at T100 US privates. Don’t be naive.

Po is correctly responding to OP’s claims: “the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate.”

And there is nothing wrong with OP claims…even at this exchange rate, it is still true. A place like Exeter at 24k Pounds x 3 years (73k pounds) is still less than $100k dollars..and you get your degree…..

PP cherry-picked two schools to make a point (with one being a 4-yr degree) and even then. Still cheaper that ANY top 100 Private full pay uni in the US. As a PP mentioned, there very little IF ANY crossover between in state flagship uni applicants and kids who go abroad….noen of these kids are making these decisions (maybe. Tiny percentage). I have had 3 kids study in the UK from California. None of them had friends that made decisions to attend their UK school that were forgoing a State Flagship to do so. Different crowds….whether you like it or not.

And you are cherry picking as well. That is tuition ONLY for Exeter accounting, the cheapest tuition as you know, because you went to this list and picked it. However, we all can see that Exeter fees can go as high as $38k+ pounds a year plus then you have to tack on accommodations, fees, books, travel, etc, which is a separate Exeter tab altogether. Others here are providing he sensible “all-in” fee. You do sound like a cantankerous nutter who has to fight about everything. Just stop or go take a drink. https://www.exeter.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/fees/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW, I only know about St Andrews, but they allow you to pay tuition with a 4 pmt installment plan using a credit card w no additional fees….plus as mentioned above one of the only UK unis you can get US student loans to cover it…

Where do you get that idea? I saw the Dept of ED list when my kid got a student loan from FAFSA. It’s enormous. What UK schools are not covered?

yes, PP was misinformed. There are close to 100 unis in the UK that are title IV programs allowing you to borrow in the US to pay for your studies in the UK.

+1. FAFSA/ED even provides US student loans for grad work abroad. My kid has had one each year for a DPhil at Oxford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Notable European Universities by Country / Area
• Switzerland: ETH Zurich, EPFL
• United Kingdom: Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, King’s, etc.
• Germany: Technical University of Munich (TUM) ; Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich (LMU) ; Heidelberg University ; Humboldt (Berlin)
• Belgium / Netherlands / Belgium: KU Leuven 
• Sweden / Scandinavia: Karolinska InstituteP

Adding a few German and Dutch Universities that are really great. Humboldt University Berlin, University of Tuebingen (Germany).
For Engineering: TU Delft (Netherlands) and Aachen University (Germany) are also excellent.

Also Bocconi, Milan, Sapienza in Italy. U of Amsterdam is also top notch. Don’t forget St Gallen (HSG) in Switzerland.
Basically every UK uni ranked in their TOP 10 internal rankings (Guardian/Times/CUG).

Only consider Dutch universities right now if you can buy a condo for your kid there or have friends or relatives who can provide housing, or if a specific program provides housing.

Dutch universities provide decent, somewhat American-style classes.

But one problem is that they use a “let everyone in, then weed them out” strategy. This is fine if your kid is independent, sober, sane, hardworking and well-prepared for a T50-ish U.S. school. But it’s bad if your kid isn’t that well-prepared.

A more serious problem is that it’s very difficult for a student to get a dorm room or rental housing. The rental laws and culture discriminate even against international students with wealthy parents. You have to be prepared to buy your kid housing.

Another issue is that we might be moving into a much less international age. A student who goes to an overseas university now has to think hard about the possibility of becoming a refugee. That might work a lot better for a student with an EU or other non-U.S. passport than for a student who just has a U.S. passport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to a US private but I feel the need to echo a point made above: some of us in this DC forum live in DC and don’t have a a state flagship! This is a DC forum! People should assume some of us live in DC!

There is UDC.

That is a community college, not a state flagship.

Quite wrong. Four year residential institution, offering also Masters’ degrees and PhD.s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I realize this is an old, reactivated thread, but anyone who thinks it is always cheaper overseas should check online before jumping in. St. Andres is now $66,000 a year for international students, so $264K (not including airfare) and Oxford is now $81,765 pounds, so x 3 years. A better option is to do state flagship for undergrad and grad overseas.

First of all NOBODY here (just ready the whole thread) insisted or said that it is “ always cheaper overseas “. You are the first one that said that.

Clearly you are you quite grasping the point being made here by a lot of people. The avg kid going to St Andrews or elsewhere in the UK or Europe is NOT the same kid that is forgoing their state flagship to do so. Please…..different universes…..these kids are kids that likely going to be full pay at T100 US privates. Don’t be naive.

Po is correctly responding to OP’s claims: “the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate.”

And there is nothing wrong with OP claims…even at this exchange rate, it is still true. A place like Exeter at 24k Pounds x 3 years (73k pounds) is still less than $100k dollars..and you get your degree…..

PP cherry-picked two schools to make a point (with one being a 4-yr degree) and even then. Still cheaper that ANY top 100 Private full pay uni in the US. As a PP mentioned, there very little IF ANY crossover between in state flagship uni applicants and kids who go abroad….noen of these kids are making these decisions (maybe. Tiny percentage). I have had 3 kids study in the UK from California. None of them had friends that made decisions to attend their UK school that were forgoing a State Flagship to do so. Different crowds….whether you like it or not.

And you are cherry picking as well. That is tuition ONLY for Exeter accounting, the cheapest tuition as you know, because you went to this list and picked it. However, we all can see that Exeter fees can go as high as $38k+ pounds a year plus then you have to tack on accommodations, fees, books, travel, etc, which is a separate Exeter tab altogether. Others here are providing he sensible “all-in” fee. You do sound like a cantankerous nutter who has to fight about everything. Just stop or go take a drink. https://www.exeter.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/fees/

I didn’t cherry pick anything. My kid is at Oxford and St. Andrews is discussed as nauseum on this site so I know how expensive both are. My point is that OP needs to check out her assumption that there is an enormous difference in price because the UK universities have caught on and are charging Americans more to study there. Air fare and cost of living can be sky-high too.