Walk me through the logistics of mass deportations

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the issue of morality or whatever you believe is right for the country. How exactly is this going to work? Door by door to round up 20 million people? Busses? Trains? Who is going to guard the deportees? Are we going to drop them off in Mexico?Fly them home? Where will the money come from? What if two illegal aliens have an American born child? What will happen to the kid?

I'm genuinely asking.

You start by not letting people in.

To answer your other question, having an American child is not a barrier to deportation. Thousands of immigrants with American children are getting deported every year. The anchor baby thing is a bunch of nonsense. Babies don’t anchor.

You didn't answer the question. Does the baby get deported too? The American citizen child?

Like everything else, it’s up to the parents. Take the child with them or leave with guardians here. Baby can stay, parents can’t. It happens every day.

It also causes an enormous amount of trauma to a child. And even if your are okay with that, writ large it becomes a problem for society. Have you seen the stats on where kids from foster care end up? Often not as productive members of society.

Child can go with the parents.

not if they're US citizens

Why not? Thirty thousand US born children are deported with their undocumented parents every year, give or take.

Sure they can go. But you can’t force them to. They are Us citizens. How many are left behind?

Quite a few are left behind. More than the number being deported. Is it a sad situation? Sure. But not every sad situation is for the government to resolve. The parents are fully aware of this dilemma before procreating and they do it anyway. Whose problem is it? Theirs.

Except if a child is left behind, it is by a definition a problem the government has to solve. Why do you think DCFS exists? Or are you letting a 4 year old wander around with not adult responsible for them? Because, spoiler alert, that ends really badly for everyone.

Spoiler alert: the parents are letting their 4 year old wander around with no responsible adult caring for them.

How is pp causing that situation?

Again— even if the parents are 100% to blame, they’ve been deported. They are gone. And, you still have a 4 year old wandering around with no responsible adult. Do what do you do about it? Not whose fault is it. Blaming others is easy. How do you solve it.

Foster care. Exactly how you solve it for children with incarcerated parents.

1. The foster care system can’t handle the kids it has. Better be prepared to pay up to massively upscale it.
2. The foster care system has abysmal results and does not have a track record of producing adults who make positive contributions to society. But I guess that’s another problem we can ignore now, and hand off to your kids.

Look, if your solution aims to produce a McLean style childhood, then no, this cannot be done. Sometimes one chooses from an array of unattractive options. But don't pretend these solutions don't exist. Them's the breaks. I mean you're like someone with a cirrhotic liver demanding Olympic-caliber results. Don't drink to oblivion is the answer.

I would prefer a solution that produces functional adults. Not PhDs. Just able to self support and not be a drain on society.

Congratulations, so would we all. What’s your point? Kids abandoned on purpose by their illegal immigrant parents deserve better than the criminals in training already in foster care?

You sound terrible. Really. Calling foster kids criminals and drains on society. How many foster kids have you taken in? You want other people to do that.

Point: ALL kids deserve a shot at being self sufficient adults. And foster kids aren’t criminals and drains on society. But the foster care system produces adults who end up in jail and unable to support themselves. And the system should be overhauled. But at a minimum, we shouldn’t further burden a system that has already failed.

Let’s pony up the money and manpower and make the system better for all though. 100% agree.

Foster care outcomes:

https://www.settothrive.org/blog/foster-care-education-statistics#:~:text=Which%20leads%20to%20our%20final,graduate%20with%20a%20college%20degree.

Or you can encourage parents to take the child with them. I mean, however bad their environment, clearly, it produced two adults self-sufficient enough to decide they don't like living there, and get to the US border, and cross it illegally, and pair up, and have a child. Whatever you think of their decision, it clearly shows they have enough gumption to carry it through. Let them take the child and raise it.

*their child
**we can’t stop them from taking their child with them when they are deported. They should not want their child separated from them. Isn’t being separated from your children a bad thing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not realistic because the country people are getting deported to has to agree to take them back.

Plenty of countries like Cambodia, China, Cuba, Eritrea, Hong Kong, India, Iran, Iraq, Laos, Pakistan and Russia and Venezuela won’t take back deported citizens and/or frequently pause accepting their deported citizens. There are over 100,000 people the US is waiting to deport but their countries won’t take them.

We have bases and territories and islands all over the world - Guantanamo Bay, Guam, the Marshall Islands, the Aleutian Islands. It would be pretty simple to house illegal migrants and rejected asylum seekers there until their home countries take them back. Australia does something similar on the island of Nauru. It's a very effective deterrent to illegal migrants with no hope of being granted asylum.

And then we have to pay for that. For millions of people?

easy. You make the living conditions so barbaric that people die. Then you’re not killing them, they’re just dying. The cost of such things.

A true intellectual, with a based in good faith argument. Brilliant.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the issue of morality or whatever you believe is right for the country. How exactly is this going to work? Door by door to round up 20 million people? Busses? Trains? Who is going to guard the deportees? Are we going to drop them off in Mexico?Fly them home? Where will the money come from? What if two illegal aliens have an American born child? What will happen to the kid?

I'm genuinely asking.

You start by not letting people in.

To answer your other question, having an American child is not a barrier to deportation. Thousands of immigrants with American children are getting deported every year. The anchor baby thing is a bunch of nonsense. Babies don’t anchor.

You didn't answer the question. Does the baby get deported too? The American citizen child?

Like everything else, it’s up to the parents. Take the child with them or leave with guardians here. Baby can stay, parents can’t. It happens every day.

It also causes an enormous amount of trauma to a child. And even if your are okay with that, writ large it becomes a problem for society. Have you seen the stats on where kids from foster care end up? Often not as productive members of society.

Child can go with the parents.

not if they're US citizens

Why not? Thirty thousand US born children are deported with their undocumented parents every year, give or take.

Sure they can go. But you can’t force them to. They are Us citizens. How many are left behind?

Parents who abandon their children to the care of the the US taxpayer are the ones making that decision. Nobody forced parents to enter the US illegally and no one is going to force them to leave their kids behind. That’s their decision.

You can foster as many as you’d like though. Or don’t you care about children once they are born?

You don’t know me or what I do for the most vulnerable children in society everyday as my job. (A lot, BTW). And because IT’S COMPLICATED, yes, it’s the parents decision. But, innocent kids pay the price. And their parents are gone, so you can’t punish them. And if you don’t care about the kids, care about what happens to our society when the huge influx of kids that our foster care system is in no way equipped to deal with grow up.

Even the best intentioned actions can have negative downstream consequences. And yes, it was the parents decision. But we all suffer if we get a generation of traumatized kids who grow up and aren’t able to be productive members of society. And kids in foster care? Just terrible outcomes, incarceration rates, no education. Is that a better outcome than letting parents who aren’t criminals and rapists stay and raise their kids ina stable household?

You are so glib, but these are actually very complex issues. And yes, incentivizing people to have anchor babies and stay is bad. The question is, is having tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of more traumatized kids go through foster care better or worse? I don’t know the answer to this. And you should either until you consider the real world downstream consequences.

The illegal immigrants who are abandoning their children in the US are causing this problem. They made choices they are forcing their innocent children to live with. Quit blaming the American taxpayer for this problem. We don’t create it- we have to live with it and pay for it, though. That’s why it needs to stop. I am amazed how illegal immigrants break the law, the government is complicit, and the American taxpayer is blamed. It’s not our fault. Blame the people causing this massive problem.

Okay. Let’s say I 100% blame the parents. Entirely their fault. I absolutely agree with you.

Identifying the problem is easy. Now that the blame game is done—- WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

What's with the all caps? The solution is already there. In fact, multiples of them.

Option A: child goes with parents.

Option B: child stays and goes to foster care or stays with relatives (exactly what happens with children of incarcerated Americans).

Option C, to be used concurrently: mom and dad are prevented from entering illegally in the first place.

Option A: the parents leave the kid, is legal and changing that would require a constitutional amendment.

Option B: how much are you willing to invest in foster care and what are you going to do to keep it from turning out kids with out high school educations who end up in jail?

Option C: Duh. But we hanged hundreds of thousands of families in this situation here now. So, going forward, sure. But, for the kids here now? Too little too late.

I’m fine with foster care, BTW. As long as you find the foster care system and reform it so we don’t get 100,000 uneducated criminals in 10-15 years.

lol you make it sound like there are no uneducated American criminals! what's with insisting on superior results for children of the undocumented? their results will be exactly like average results of foster care children.

+100
So the horrific foster care system has to be reformed for children of illegal immigrants who abandon their children in the US? Why can’t we reform the foster care system for the safety and improved outcomes for all kids, for those kids? The kids in foster care deserve a better life. Taking care of them for their qol vs taking care of them so they don’t become “criminals,” wtf is wrong with you? They didn’t ask to be abandoned into a foster home and not have a loving family.

The foster care system isn’t about you and how the poor kids trapped in it affect your life.

If illegal immigrants put their kids in foster care- that’s their choice. If it’s good enough for the white and black kids in it, hispanic American children will have to make do.

That's a winning motto for your Operation Wetback 2.0. Go with it.

"If it’s good enough for the white and black kids in it, hispanic American children will have to make do"

-- signed "Think of the children" party.

It is in a child’s best interest to remain with a parent. When FDR put Japanese Americans in concentration camps for being spies during WWII, kids went with parents to the camps.

[Anonymous]

While this thread is entertaining and all, people do realize there is a ton of daylight between "rolling out the red carpet for illegals" and "Repurposing C-17s to be like a flying slave ship" right?

If you just turn off the money, most of them will self-deport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From 2013 to 2018, ICE deported more than 231,000 people who reported having at least one U.S.-citizen child. In 2019, ICE deported 27,980 people with U.S.-born children.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/us-citizen-children-impacted-immigration-enforcement#:~:text=From%202013%20to%202018%2C%20ICE,people%20with%20U.S.%2Dborn%20children.

Obama deported many more than trump did:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/jan/04/ron-desantis/ron-desantis-is-right-barack-obama-deported-more-p/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While this thread is entertaining and all, people do realize there is a ton of daylight between "rolling out the red carpet for illegals" and "Repurposing C-17s to be like a flying slave ship" right?

If you just turn off the money, most of them will self-deport.

Pp is gonna be a billionaire when she gets the government contract to retrofit C-17s with slave ship bunks. She’s so creative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From 2013 to 2018, ICE deported more than 231,000 people who reported having at least one U.S.-citizen child. In 2019, ICE deported 27,980 people with U.S.-born children.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/us-citizen-children-impacted-immigration-enforcement#:~:text=From%202013%20to%202018%2C%20ICE,people%20with%20U.S.%2Dborn%20children.

Obama deported many more than trump did:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/jan/04/ron-desantis/ron-desantis-is-right-barack-obama-deported-more-p/

Trump let less in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had my green card processed under Biden. Took twice as long and had to fight for every step.

Also under Biden: the shafting of World Bank/IMF/UN retirees and their families in favor of visa applicants born in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really do not want concentration camps. The Republicans will fill them their "political" enemies.

Like Democrats are doing to many peaceful J6 protesters who stayed OUTSIDE?

Seriously? They showed up to an insurrection!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my green card processed under Biden. Took twice as long and had to fight for every step.

Also under Biden: the shafting of World Bank/IMF/UN retirees and their families in favor of visa applicants born in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

What?

There is a special visa category for the retirees of international organizations who have a) been here for 15+ years, b) are retiring, and c) have spent 3.5 years of the last 7 inside the U.S. Because visas in this category are typically immediately available, retirees used to be able to file for green cards and remain in the U.S. while the case was processing. A typical retiree is a family man/woman with children either in school or college. This benefit was an integral part of the benefit package.

Last year the Dept of State has added applicants born in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador to this category, instantly increasing the pool of applicants and therefore making visas "not immediately available". Now retirees have to depart the U.S. after filing for a green card, and the wait time is estimated at 4.5 years, which makes it impossible to meet requirement c) above. In effect, this benefit to a highly productive group of people who have lived in the US for decades was scrapped. This is especially painful for school and college age children whose education plans are derailed and families uprooted. Gee thanks DOS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MAGA will need to consult history books to see how the Nazis did it.

Nazis invaded other countries and built death camps in those countries. They didn’t deport people; they sent them to sites to kill them.

That wasn’t mass deportation, that was coordinated mass murder.

It’s a matter of semantics to say sending millions off on trains to concentration camps in different countries is not “deportation.”

Comparing Mexico and other countries to concentration camps is very racist. Living in Mexico is nothing like living in a death camp, do you have any critical thinking?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the issue of morality or whatever you believe is right for the country. How exactly is this going to work? Door by door to round up 20 million people? Busses? Trains? Who is going to guard the deportees? Are we going to drop them off in Mexico?Fly them home? Where will the money come from? What if two illegal aliens have an American born child? What will happen to the kid?

I'm genuinely asking.

You start by not letting people in.

To answer your other question, having an American child is not a barrier to deportation. Thousands of immigrants with American children are getting deported every year. The anchor baby thing is a bunch of nonsense. Babies don’t anchor.

You didn't answer the question. Does the baby get deported too? The American citizen child?

Like everything else, it’s up to the parents. Take the child with them or leave with guardians here. Baby can stay, parents can’t. It happens every day.

It also causes an enormous amount of trauma to a child. And even if your are okay with that, writ large it becomes a problem for society. Have you seen the stats on where kids from foster care end up? Often not as productive members of society.

Child can go with the parents.

not if they're US citizens

Why not? Thirty thousand US born children are deported with their undocumented parents every year, give or take.

Sure they can go. But you can’t force them to. They are Us citizens. How many are left behind?

Parents who abandon their children to the care of the the US taxpayer are the ones making that decision. Nobody forced parents to enter the US illegally and no one is going to force them to leave their kids behind. That’s their decision.

You can foster as many as you’d like though. Or don’t you care about children once they are born?

You don’t know me or what I do for the most vulnerable children in society everyday as my job. (A lot, BTW). And because IT’S COMPLICATED, yes, it’s the parents decision. But, innocent kids pay the price. And their parents are gone, so you can’t punish them. And if you don’t care about the kids, care about what happens to our society when the huge influx of kids that our foster care system is in no way equipped to deal with grow up.

Even the best intentioned actions can have negative downstream consequences. And yes, it was the parents decision. But we all suffer if we get a generation of traumatized kids who grow up and aren’t able to be productive members of society. And kids in foster care? Just terrible outcomes, incarceration rates, no education. Is that a better outcome than letting parents who aren’t criminals and rapists stay and raise their kids ina stable household?

You are so glib, but these are actually very complex issues. And yes, incentivizing people to have anchor babies and stay is bad. The question is, is having tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of more traumatized kids go through foster care better or worse? I don’t know the answer to this. And you should either until you consider the real world downstream consequences.

The illegal immigrants who are abandoning their children in the US are causing this problem. They made choices they are forcing their innocent children to live with. Quit blaming the American taxpayer for this problem. We don’t create it- we have to live with it and pay for it, though. That’s why it needs to stop. I am amazed how illegal immigrants break the law, the government is complicit, and the American taxpayer is blamed. It’s not our fault. Blame the people causing this massive problem.

Okay. Let’s say I 100% blame the parents. Entirely their fault. I absolutely agree with you.

Identifying the problem is easy. Now that the blame game is done—- WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

What's with the all caps? The solution is already there. In fact, multiples of them.

Option A: child goes with parents.

Option B: child stays and goes to foster care or stays with relatives (exactly what happens with children of incarcerated Americans).

Option C, to be used concurrently: mom and dad are prevented from entering illegally in the first place.

Option A: the parents leave the kid, is legal and changing that would require a constitutional amendment.

Option B: how much are you willing to invest in foster care and what are you going to do to keep it from turning out kids with out high school educations who end up in jail?

Option C: Duh. But we hanged hundreds of thousands of families in this situation here now. So, going forward, sure. But, for the kids here now? Too little too late.

I’m fine with foster care, BTW. As long as you find the foster care system and reform it so we don’t get 100,000 uneducated criminals in 10-15 years.

lol you make it sound like there are no uneducated American criminals! what's with insisting on superior results for children of the undocumented? their results will be exactly like average results of foster care children.

Hey— I work in this area. The whole foster care system needs a massive overhaul and much better funding. What it does to ALL kids is unconscionable. I think that’s a different thread though. My point is dumping 100,000 kids into a failed system is a bad idea. But yes, we agree that we should do much better by kids.

PS— these ARE American kids. Born here with citizenship.

Dumped off and abandoned by their parents who knew the laws and decided to leave their kids behind.

Does the person they rob 15 years ago or the taxpayer supporting them because they cannot self support care? A bad outcome is a bad outcome.

DC doesn’t care if people get robbed. You’re silly.

Unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my green card processed under Biden. Took twice as long and had to fight for every step.

Also under Biden: the shafting of World Bank/IMF/UN retirees and their families in favor of visa applicants born in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

What?

There is a special visa category for the retirees of international organizations who have a) been here for 15+ years, b) are retiring, and c) have spent 3.5 years of the last 7 inside the U.S. Because visas in this category are typically immediately available, retirees used to be able to file for green cards and remain in the U.S. while the case was processing. A typical retiree is a family man/woman with children either in school or college. This benefit was an integral part of the benefit package.

Last year the Dept of State has added applicants born in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador to this category, instantly increasing the pool of applicants and therefore making visas "not immediately available". Now retirees have to depart the U.S. after filing for a green card, and the wait time is estimated at 4.5 years, which makes it impossible to meet requirement c) above. In effect, this benefit to a highly productive group of people who have lived in the US for decades was scrapped. This is especially painful for school and college age children whose education plans are derailed and families uprooted. Gee thanks DOS.

Were these people ever eligible for citizenship? Just curious because I am an immigrant myself and did as soon as I could. This is a long time not to apply if able to. You can never trust the system, and this is proof of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my green card processed under Biden. Took twice as long and had to fight for every step.

Also under Biden: the shafting of World Bank/IMF/UN retirees and their families in favor of visa applicants born in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

What?

There is a special visa category for the retirees of international organizations who have a) been here for 15+ years, b) are retiring, and c) have spent 3.5 years of the last 7 inside the U.S. Because visas in this category are typically immediately available, retirees used to be able to file for green cards and remain in the U.S. while the case was processing. A typical retiree is a family man/woman with children either in school or college. This benefit was an integral part of the benefit package.

Last year the Dept of State has added applicants born in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador to this category, instantly increasing the pool of applicants and therefore making visas "not immediately available". Now retirees have to depart the U.S. after filing for a green card, and the wait time is estimated at 4.5 years, which makes it impossible to meet requirement c) above. In effect, this benefit to a highly productive group of people who have lived in the US for decades was scrapped. This is especially painful for school and college age children whose education plans are derailed and families uprooted. Gee thanks DOS.

Were these people ever eligible for citizenship? Just curious because I am an immigrant myself and did as soon as I could. This is a long time not to apply if able to. You can never trust the system, and this is proof of it.

You can only do it upon retirement. But you used to be able to apply, stay in the country while it was processing, and receive it in a few months. There was no disruption to your family life. Now you must leave the country and wait outside, and the wait time is long enough to make it impossible to meet the 3.5 years out of 7 requirement. Because by the time your turn comes, you've already been out of the country for nearly 5 years (as of today, that's the waiting time). It sucks. They screwed up thousands of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my green card processed under Biden. Took twice as long and had to fight for every step.

Also under Biden: the shafting of World Bank/IMF/UN retirees and their families in favor of visa applicants born in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

What?

There is a special visa category for the retirees of international organizations who have a) been here for 15+ years, b) are retiring, and c) have spent 3.5 years of the last 7 inside the U.S. Because visas in this category are typically immediately available, retirees used to be able to file for green cards and remain in the U.S. while the case was processing. A typical retiree is a family man/woman with children either in school or college. This benefit was an integral part of the benefit package.

Last year the Dept of State has added applicants born in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador to this category, instantly increasing the pool of applicants and therefore making visas "not immediately available". Now retirees have to depart the U.S. after filing for a green card, and the wait time is estimated at 4.5 years, which makes it impossible to meet requirement c) above. In effect, this benefit to a highly productive group of people who have lived in the US for decades was scrapped. This is especially painful for school and college age children whose education plans are derailed and families uprooted. Gee thanks DOS.

Were these people ever eligible for citizenship? Just curious because I am an immigrant myself and did as soon as I could. This is a long time not to apply if able to. You can never trust the system, and this is proof of it.

They are applying for green cards, not citizenship. Employees of these organisations are not permitted to apply before retirement. However, their children can apply once they meet criteria. Applied for my son in 2020, massive delays due to covid and then, due to changes last year, told it would now take more than 14 years (during which time he will become ineligible). There are only 9,500 green cards each year for this category and more than 140,000 applicants waiting. Sad for my son who arrived as a 2 year old and is now 17. This is his home and he is culturally American. After university, he will have to start a new life overseas on his own. Same for my daughter.

I don’t blame Biden. Honestly, this issue is not a vote winner for any politician so they don’t care. There are far bigger problems related to immigration. I do feel a lot of sympathy for those families originally from places like Venezuela or Zimbabwe who might not have a whole lot of options once they retire.