Shocked at how many families in nice DMV neighborhoods are living in relatives' homes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

Right. Which is probably the much more common story than the boozing drug addict trust fund kid who ruins their life because their parents paid for college. The unfair reality is that some people have a lot more advantages and get a lot of help in life. The emotionally mature response to this is to be happy for them and understand that no ill was done to you just because your parents werent rich and you had to earn every penny yourself. The hate for trust funders and old money types on here is just very predictable and frankly embarrassing. Envy is such a bad look

Factually, most generational wealth is squandered in 3 generations.

The stats are 60% is lost by the 2nd generation and 90% by the 3rd.

Who cares? Some will keep it, some won't. Some of these old money families are several generations deep, and have a wealth of social connections worth their weight in gold. It will be up to their descendants to maintain things, same for the new rich couples, which probably have a much higher likelihood of raising drug addict silly wastrels considering they dont have many generations used to having money.

Not quite what the stats show. Time and time again the first generation works hard and is highly successful. Second generation watched them work hard so has a sense of money and manages things ok. Third generation is spoiled and entitled and that is the end of the wealth in 90% of situations.

Except by the time youre dealing with true old money families, theyve surpassed that stat and through clever money management, passing down an attitude of frugality and conservatism, and connections, theyve managed to keep the money flowing for generations. Escaping that particular familial curse. The new money families are the ones who should be concerned about it.

And after all, if running out of money is an inevitability, according to your philosophy- time's gonna catch up with the new money strivers as well, so who cares whether it's in two or three generations? After all, it's just a matter of time for both, so why feel smug about a few extra years? How is that a win?

I find it comical when someone mentions true "old money" families and yet here we are implying there are tons living amongst us in the CC DC area where the median house price is like $1.1MM. Somehow they employ clever money management techniques and keep the money flowing...I guess by living in the house they paid $100k for 45 years ago, which they don't renovate (or I guess they inherited).

Sure, there are families living in Georgetown, Massachusetts Heights and other areas where old-money people would live.

I guess this is like those boxed-wine commercials from the 1980s where the super-wealthy person has the tagline "how do you think I got so rich" when serving their guests boxed wine.

I find it comical you think there are no old money families in Chevy Chase, when in fact it's KNOWN for being old money. Just because youre not aware of that, or have some kind of comical, caricature esque image of old money that you got from a Baz Luhrmann film, doesnt mean they dont exist.

Chevy Chase, DC is known WHERE? for being old money. You talked about wealth existing for centuries...so it kind of requires the neighborhood to have existed for centuries, doesn't it? The first homes were constructed in 1890s on the MD side and like 99% of the area was built from 1920+.

If you really dont know about Chevy Chase's reputation... then that really says it all about your level of familiarity with that world, which is what makes it so comical you continue to weigh in like you know what you're talking about. Chevy Chase is absolutely known as an old money haven. Most of these families arent living in the exact same houses that were built in 1702, lol. They might move every few generations, sell when they want, settle down in a place they like, pack up and move... just like most people living in say, Cape Cod or Palm Beach, havent lived in the same homes since the 1800s. That doesnt make it any less old money. Stop getting your idea of old money from episodes of Gossip Girl

I went to college with a Van Cortlandt which is about as old as money gets in the US (descendant of some of the original Dutch settlers in NYC).

Her family owned a townhouse in NYC, homes in the Hamptons and elsewhere. That's her branch of the family, which must have been huge.

She didn't live in an area where the median home price is $1.1MM.

There are a number of profiles of "old" money families living in CC MD, but none on anyone in CC DC. Why is that?

It's almost like there's... multiple ways of being old money, and not just one single old money family in the entire United States? How utterly clueless and provincial you sound. It's actually hard to believe youre serious

No...I just think you have a very small definition of "old money", that's not very large. You can't produce one iota of evidence to back up any of your claims...nothing showing the average net worth of CC DC is somehow outsized, no profiles on anyone that lives here, nothing.

Until you produce something tangible, everything you say is just trash.

"One iota of evidence" lol. First of all, this is a message board, not my college thesis. If you are insane enough to believe there's no old money people in Chevy Chase, I'd much rather see you continue with that particular delusion, hopefully dropping said assertion at a dinner party with some people in the know (not that youd ever be invited to these things) so they can be inwardly amused.
Second of all, what exact "evidence" would even exist? The names and addresses of old money families? I'm not about to dox a bunch of private citizens so you can be proven wrong on an internet forum. If you're not aware, you're not meant to be, and that's certainly how they'd prefer it.

There would be a magazine profile on the family (of which there are many for CC MD, Georgetown, etc. old money families), it would show up in the average or median net worth of CC DC being outsized compared to median incomes, etc.

It would also show up in there being maybe one house sold in CC DC for more than like $3MM that isn't an embassy sold to another country.

I didn't say there are none...I said there aren't many. Again, everything you say is trash because you can't point to anything to support what you say.

And I'm supposed to be googling that and pulling out old magazine clippings for.... you? A new money striver who's bitter because her mom didn't buy her a house and now she wants the names and addresses of old money people so she can seethe about it? I think I'll pass. And btw, just fyi, most actual old money people arent doing magazine profiles or interviews, they're keeping to themselves so declasse weirdos like yourself won't find them. That's actually the entire goal.

More trash...no proof...exactly what I thought. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

The only trash in here is you, my dear. As I suspect you well know.

More garbage...again. Nothing...zero.

Yes, you are garbage.

No proof again? Nothing?

You've more than proven it, over and over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

I mean, I would never be a fed. That sounds miserable.

I am that pp btw and I’m not really that focused on whether I’ve “made it.” I think I have a pretty healthy level of humility. I’m just kind of living my life. I have a lot of friends who are way more accomplished than I am. Also kinder, funnier, more beautiful etc. I also have some that are not! I’m not really trying to “get to” anything or anywhere, I don’t think, except for my family to be reasonably healthy and happy.

[Anonymous]

There’s no such thing as “old money” guys. It’s always new to someone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

The story on Elon Mush is completely fabricated. His dad made all that up.

Bill Gates' dad was a lawyer who did well and I gather is the definition of the striver in DCUMland. He didn't inherit squat from his dad, mainly because he was worth 1000x more than his dad at like 25.

Sure, even though Stephen Schwarzman essentially owns Yale...what old money family is secretly actually controlling it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

The story on Elon Mush is completely fabricated. His dad made all that up.

Bill Gates' dad was a lawyer who did well and I gather is the definition of the striver in DCUMland. He didn't inherit squat from his dad, mainly because he was worth 1000x more than his dad at like 25.

Sure, even though Stephen Schwarzman essentially owns Yale...what old money family is secretly actually controlling it?

It doesnt take away from the fact that many of these men inherited wealth. And old money families still control the eating clubs, the social groups and dynamics, etc. Both at the elite universities and afterwards, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

The story on Elon Mush is completely fabricated. His dad made all that up.

Bill Gates' dad was a lawyer who did well and I gather is the definition of the striver in DCUMland. He didn't inherit squat from his dad, mainly because he was worth 1000x more than his dad at like 25.

Sure, even though Stephen Schwarzman essentially owns Yale...what old money family is secretly actually controlling it?

Bill Gates's mom was old money in the PNW, part of a banking dynasty. Her grandfather was head of National City Bank, her father ran a bank too. Bill Gates's dad "married up" into a very connected family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP if you are offended why are living there? By fact of living in an “upscale DMV neighborhood” you are part of the same human drive of striving and wealth accumulation.

This is the point of striving - getting an education, getting a high paying job, accumulating property - so that you can make life easier for your kids and pass on wealth/property.

This. We're doing all this for our kids. An "upscale DMV neighborhood" isn't the place for OP if she wants to avoid this.

My spouse and I judge toys we want to buy by thinking about putting that money away for our kids instead. I had moms in my not upscale neighborhood make fun of my not expensive purse. I could buy a birkin but never will. That money is going to my kids. How outraged are you op that spouse and I live below our means so we can leave money for our kids? I'm dying to know.

I find the bolded very hard to believe.

Things like that happen in movies about high school mean girls, but not in real life.
I haven't encountered anyone like that after college.

I live in McLean, which is one of the fanciest zip codes in all of the DMV.
Not a single person -- whether than person be friend, acquaintance or stranger has ever even taken note of my generic black bag or asked me what brand it was, let alone made fun of it for not being a "pricey" brand name.

The wealthy mom's in my neighborhood could have asked me who designed it or feigned interest in it pretending they wanted one for themselves, if they were really trying to "out" me for wearing a non-designer purse, but they've never shown an iota of interest in it... the same goes for my non designer labeled clothing, car, and shoes.
Not a single person... ever.

It moreso sounds like those women probably had a problem with YOU, and that was the passive-aggressive outlet they chose to inform you of it.

It was never reallllly about your purse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I get what you are trying to say.

It is frustrating when you don't have that generational wealth. Money doesn't go as far and also more frustrations in childcare.

I don't envy others this position, but I do agree that they sometimes forget how much the rest of us must hustle/struggle.

I have lived all over the country and this is more predominant here than anywhere else I have lived.

I do agree that sometimes people like you assume or forget how much the rest of us struggled and went without and created our own wealth to afford that house in that neighborhood.

Well the OP is not talking about you.

She doesn't know who she is talking about. She is assuming "this is how it works" when it isn't. She's exaggerating a situation to justify being bitter that someone else has more than her.

Slow clap.

This PP nailed it on the head.
The OP thinks she has it all figured out through her limited aggregate of her kids friends parents in her "upscale DMV" neighborhood.

However, that "aha!" moment of hers was just so embarrassing, because she doesn't really have the first clue about anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always amazes me how people like OP feel entitled to other people's things.

OP here: we actually saved a six figure down-payment and closing costs without any family help. Paid for our own wedding too. Also paid off our student loans. But we got "lucky" by pivoting multiple times in our careers for better jobs, striving for big promotions, etc.

Vast majority of our friends who had a similar profile as us - i.e., had to pay for their own house, their own wedding, their own student loans - had to leave the area completely or moved very far out to make it work.

So, no, I do not feel entitled to other people's things. But it wasn't until our kid was in school that we really had no idea how "things really work" in nicer DMV neighborhoods.

You are listing the ways you’ve boot-strapped like you want to be rewarded for your hard work. You have been- you got to buy a home in the neighborhood you want. Good on you. Hopefully your efforts will produce benefits for your children.

The people you are judging have benefited from the efforts of their loved ones and they too get to live in the neighborhood they want. Good on them.

It’s surprising that you’re surprised by how generational wealth is earned, preserved, and transferred. Did you think everyone around you was new money just because you are?

It’s common that parents want to help their progeny have good lives. Those who can, do.

OP is SUCH a hypocrite.

Let's fast forward by 30 or 40 years from now, when OP's own children become the EXACT kind of people that she's currently resentful of.

I mean, they're going to have the benefit of receiving a house that they, themselves, didn't earn, because it was given to them by OP, right?

OP's bitterness stems from her own parents not doing this for her, but it's guaranteed that she'll be doing this for her own... and I guess it will be OK to do then, right??

[Anonymous]

+1

BUT I would be think, given the absurdity of the OP’s initial post, that OP is a man who can’t find his way. I know someone like this - whines and carries on about all of the “loaded” people in his orbit, while he, capable as he is, lives off of his wife’s salary and his father in law’s largesse.

OP isn’t exactly that guy. But OP sure sounds like him, pathetically looking at others with sorrow and envy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

The story on Elon Mush is completely fabricated. His dad made all that up.

Bill Gates' dad was a lawyer who did well and I gather is the definition of the striver in DCUMland. He didn't inherit squat from his dad, mainly because he was worth 1000x more than his dad at like 25.

Sure, even though Stephen Schwarzman essentially owns Yale...what old money family is secretly actually controlling it?

It doesnt take away from the fact that many of these men inherited wealth. And old money families still control the eating clubs, the social groups and dynamics, etc. Both at the elite universities and afterwards, of course.

Well, the fact that many of these men did not inherit wealth, does in fact take away from that non-fact.

Stephen Schwarzman went to public school in Queens...Larry Ellison grew up in South Chicago...Jeff Bezos went to public school in NM and Florida (and his stepdad did invest some money in Amazon alongside major VC investors)...Mark Zuckerberg and Sam Altman had UMC upbringings, but no old money, family money.

The selective Princeton Eating Clubs where you have to bicker don't care if your money is old or new...they just care you have a ton of it. There aren't enough old money descendants attending at any one point in time for the club to survive.

Curious who is in this "old money" club...you have to be Vanderbilt or Rockefeller or Dow or Dupont, etc. in order to control these universities and clubs because you had to lay your hooks in the 19th century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

The story on Elon Mush is completely fabricated. His dad made all that up.

Bill Gates' dad was a lawyer who did well and I gather is the definition of the striver in DCUMland. He didn't inherit squat from his dad, mainly because he was worth 1000x more than his dad at like 25.

Sure, even though Stephen Schwarzman essentially owns Yale...what old money family is secretly actually controlling it?

It doesnt take away from the fact that many of these men inherited wealth. And old money families still control the eating clubs, the social groups and dynamics, etc. Both at the elite universities and afterwards, of course.

Well, the fact that many of these men did not inherit wealth, does in fact take away from that non-fact.

Stephen Schwarzman went to public school in Queens...Larry Ellison grew up in South Chicago...Jeff Bezos went to public school in NM and Florida (and his stepdad did invest some money in Amazon alongside major VC investors)...Mark Zuckerberg and Sam Altman had UMC upbringings, but no old money, family money.

The selective Princeton Eating Clubs where you have to bicker don't care if your money is old or new...they just care you have a ton of it. There aren't enough old money descendants attending at any one point in time for the club to survive.

Curious who is in this "old money" club...you have to be Vanderbilt or Rockefeller or Dow or Dupont, etc. in order to control these universities and clubs because you had to lay your hooks in the 19th century.

Actually random anecdotes don't take away from that fact... and as someone else pointed out, Bill comes from old money stock. The handful of names you mentioned hardly take away from the existence of the myriad of old money families that make up the fabric of real wealth in this country.

Of course the Princeton Eating Clubs care, as do the Yale societies. In every venerated institution in America, the old guard still holds a huge amount of sway, often behind the scenes, blocking out contenders who dont fit the bill, occasionally giving their blessing to new money strivers who happen to rub them the right way (or who are willing to lavish enough cash on them to make it worth their while)

Again, there are plenty of private members of the old money guard that you've probably never heard of, living in- Oh my God!- Chevy Chase. That's what you find so irritating- many of these old money people are living thriving, relatively quiet lives, having a job that fulfills their passion or just is calm and peaceful, rather than rabidly chasing cash the way the strivers have to. And there's nothing you can do about it :)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

So, at what point is new money, old money. The wealthiest people on the planet have made all their money in the last 40 years. It dwarfs any "old money" fortunes.

Do you think the tech titans, hedge fund titans, P/E titans, etc. are sitting around wishing they were as lucky as the folks that are worth a fraction of their wealth?

Actually Elon Musk inherited his money and got his start from his father- they're an old South African mining family. Trump also got his start from his wealthy parents. Bill Gates grew up wealthy. Actually a very large portion of the wealthiest people inherited some or a good amount of their wealth. And yeah, the tech and hedge fund titans are sitting around scheming about how to get into the clubs, neighborhoods, and universities that these old families still run... trying to copy them, trying to dress like them, trying to pass themselves off as one of them.

The story on Elon Mush is completely fabricated. His dad made all that up.

Bill Gates' dad was a lawyer who did well and I gather is the definition of the striver in DCUMland. He didn't inherit squat from his dad, mainly because he was worth 1000x more than his dad at like 25.

Sure, even though Stephen Schwarzman essentially owns Yale...what old money family is secretly actually controlling it?

It doesnt take away from the fact that many of these men inherited wealth. And old money families still control the eating clubs, the social groups and dynamics, etc. Both at the elite universities and afterwards, of course.

Well, the fact that many of these men did not inherit wealth, does in fact take away from that non-fact.

Stephen Schwarzman went to public school in Queens...Larry Ellison grew up in South Chicago...Jeff Bezos went to public school in NM and Florida (and his stepdad did invest some money in Amazon alongside major VC investors)...Mark Zuckerberg and Sam Altman had UMC upbringings, but no old money, family money.

The selective Princeton Eating Clubs where you have to bicker don't care if your money is old or new...they just care you have a ton of it. There aren't enough old money descendants attending at any one point in time for the club to survive.

Curious who is in this "old money" club...you have to be Vanderbilt or Rockefeller or Dow or Dupont, etc. in order to control these universities and clubs because you had to lay your hooks in the 19th century.

Actually random anecdotes don't take away from that fact... and as someone else pointed out, Bill comes from old money stock. The handful of names you mentioned hardly take away from the existence of the myriad of old money families that make up the fabric of real wealth in this country.

Of course the Princeton Eating Clubs care, as do the Yale societies. In every venerated institution in America, the old guard still holds a huge amount of sway, often behind the scenes, blocking out contenders who dont fit the bill, occasionally giving their blessing to new money strivers who happen to rub them the right way (or who are willing to lavish enough cash on them to make it worth their while)

Again, there are plenty of private members of the old money guard that you've probably never heard of, living in- Oh my God!- Chevy Chase. That's what you find so irritating- many of these old money people are living thriving, relatively quiet lives, having a job that fulfills their passion or just is calm and peaceful, rather than rabidly chasing cash the way the strivers have to. And there's nothing you can do about it :)

Well here is the background of the 500 wealthiest families in the country: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gigizamora/2023/10/03/the-2023-forbes-400-self-made-score-from-silver-spooners-to-bootstrappers/

Even the ones that are listed as "inheriting a fortune" are people like the Walton family...which again, not sure how a fortune derived from Walmart is old money.

Every argument you make doesn't even rise to the level of an anecdote. You don't have even have those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid (only-child) just finished kindergarten at a school in an upscale DMV neighborhood.

We've met at least a dozen families at our school who are living in a childhood home or a living in a house own by an elderly parent/relative and "paying rent" (whatever that means)

Though extracurricular activities we've met other families with the same arrangements in Chevy Chase, Bethesda, and upper NW DC. This is, in fact, pretty widespread.

So, if you're slogging away saving for that down payment, paying for child care and wondering "how do all these people do it????"....just know that this is one of the ways you're getting shut out. I'm honestly surprised at how widespread this is happening.

Yep, my friend moved into her DH's childhood home. The parents helped their son out and provide her/DH free babysitting to take trips.
I'm so jealous.
They really have the perfect set up.

With just three simple words, this PP has managed to encapsulate the OP's feelings -- resentment, bitterness and envy.

I'm. So. Jealous.

Envy is such an incredibly unattractive trait, as it conveys to the world that you've chosen to become rooted in bitterness, resentment, inferiority, and insecurity.

This post is predictable.

They always find a way to blame someone else for their own inadequacies & shortcomings, because they've deluded themselves into believing that life isn't fair.
They MUST live their lives as perpetual victims of unfairness & injustice⁸⁰.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the goal of this entire post?

It seemed like the OP was positively giddy for her GOTCHA! moment, in trying to expose the so-called "secrets" of legacy real estate in the DMV area (aka; inheretences of the rich & privileged).
However, it seems painfully obvious that OP was probably the only one who didn't know that the DMV has always been ripe with real estate legacies, and the three kind of people who react to them:

1. Those who get labeled entitled for having the benefit of legacy/nepo inheritances.
2. Those who feel bitter & resentful because they'll never receive those same privileges AND
3. Those who are happy for anyone who is fortunate enough to own their home... no matter how they got it.

Stop worrying so much about what other people have and how they got it.
Focus on yourself.

Exactly. It's so transparent. Especially because said legacy/inheriting families will often have other advantages, like a built in-childhood social circle that the OP could never buy their way into. The world is unfair but seething over someone else getting blessings from their parents is truly pathetic

I don’t think OP is seething. It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck. My husband’s family was like this - all ivy educated society Mayflower types then a generation full of spending, alcohol and drugs squandered it all. People without purpose pick up bad habits.

I think they are. Because the harsh reality is, there's nothing trainwreck about a guy with an easy non-profit job and a trust fund living a great life in a nice Chevy Chase or Kalorama with his family. There's nothing trainwreck about belonging to a tony country or university club and socializing (and getting valuable connections) with your boarding school buddies. It can be infuriating and enraging to watch these people get handed all the things so many others have worked so hard for, striven their whole lives for. And these guys just get it handed to them on a silver platter, with a maddening insouciance that makes it even worse.

Ooo yeah, this is me. I’m not a train wreck and I haven’t squandered anything. I’m pretty responsible! Never been fired, arrested, genuinely pretty good at my job, etc etc. I just have like, $5m than I’ve earned and that’s not even counting any of the tuition etc. AND I have dramatically different retirement requirements, which really frees us to take entrepreneurial risks and do things like have a SAHP for a while.

I guess we’ll all get cancer?

So you and your spouse went to Lehigh and Kenyon and now you are a fed and SAHM and you are proud you can take risks like have a SAH parent and a nanny. You are good at your low stress job because it’s so non core to the agency’s mission that no one cares if you have 13 typos in a PPT with six slides. And you drive a Subaru because you are responsible you don’t need to be flashy with all the money you didn’t earn. And you’ve never even been fired or arrested (except for that DWI when you were 27 but that was a mistake and you got out of it because you’re such a great person who also has lots of connections). Wow. You are doing so well. You’ve really made it!

Not the PP but why are you so incredibly bitter and angry? Is it because no one is impressed by your striving and it irritates you that you've worked so damn hard and yet have achieved the same things in life, ultimately, as the easy, chilled out old money trust fund kid who coasted through Choate and went to a liberal arts college? And no matter how much you and your big law spouse have white knuckled everything, worked nights, and pushed and prodded and forced your way into spaces, you'll never be taken as seriously or accepted in the way the PP who grew up in that world will be? It's so very bad and bitter. This is why no one wants to be around you

Not even close. I’ve got your number because you are cut from the same ordinary cloth as every other nepo baby - with a few exceptions (my husband). I went to PE and Harvard and was in a finals club. I made something of myself because I’m not a fratty, chill (is chill your euphemism for stupid because if you went to Choate it was 100% due to legacy but legacy and money couldn’t get you into a better college so you must not come from a family with that much money and you must be very chill), super bro obsessing about the definition of old money and trying to keep up appearances. You don’t know how to work hard and win. I know it and you know it too.

Aw, someone went to Harvard and is still bitter because they got excluded :( And still ranting, enraged, and deranged sounding all because some old money snobs excluded them from their group. It's funny because a lot of the new money types who marry in have exactly this chip on their shoulder- they know they wont ever be truly accepted, and that theyre looked down on by their partner's school friends, so they fixate and stew and become even more militant and resentful with every boarding school reunion they have to go to. And they justify their bitterness and hatred based on some kind of capitalistic "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps" rhetoric that's actually so pedestrian and plebeian, and extremely middle American. And it enrages them that even with allllll that work, and all that sweat, they'll never ever reach the same levels as the person who got lucky and was born in it. Pretty funny actually.

I wasn’t excluded. You were excluded. You are excluded because you’re not smart and you’re not talented. People look at you and they wonder why you are so unimpressive. They wonder where your parents went wrong. And you are deeply insecure about that because it really sucks to underachieve.