Joint Christmas Card

[Anonymous]

The new issue in my circles is when a divorced parent dies. Kids are stressed without having other parent help. When parent dies, there may be a stepparent, step siblings and half siblings. My friends with married divorced parents have a lot of complaints.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of us who find a joint Christmas card odd, I think the general consensus is that this doesn’t seem like a thing you are doing for the kids. It seems like a thing you are doing for yourselves. It also doesn’t seem particularly healthy for the kids. I am a child of an amicable divorce. My parents went to all of my events together and I really appreciated it. They also brought their significant others (once they were married), so there was no confusion on our end about the situation. The idea that there is never room for other significant others in your life leaves a lot of room for confusion with your kids. People showing up amicably for their kids’ events does not have to be mutually exclusive with moving on with new relationships. In fact, that’s what divorce is most of the time.

Nobody, talking about normal mature people, are doing Xmas cards for a reason other than to say happy holidays. It’s not advertising, it’s not a PR stunt.

You find a picture in your phone… sometimes just kids, sometimes everybody and you make card.

Nobody is not moving on. We are talking about 2 holidays, birthdays, weddings and graduations. Don’t be a d!ck take a simple pic.

Lol! This is why men think women are crazy they think everything is a move or has a meaning.

I really truly don’t think my Dh cares about sending a card to anyone.

If the mom wants to send a holiday greeting, fine. Send one. Her ex husband doesn’t have to be in it. Same for the dad. If he wants to make and send out a holiday card, also great. Just don’t send it out together. You are not married anymore. You are no longer a family that should be sending a holiday card together.

So every man is exactly like your H? My H sent me the pic, hey here’s a good one from graduation. Cool, 15 min later Xmas card complete. I even put “his” dog on the card, so sue me.

Maybe I should stop celebrating holidays and birthdays too because I’m “not a family” lol, you got mad takes.

Send your broken happy family photo card. do whatever you want. You asked. We answered. Send the picture of your dh’s dog. You can laugh at me. I’m laughing at you.

enjoy your disconnect disinterested H. I'm laughing all the way while I reach for the martini my ex just made me.

NP. Enjoy that martini. It’s a very costly one when you think of the legal fees, lost income, split assets…yikes!

Not PP. divorce is as expensive as people make it. Mine was less than 5k. No lost income. Split assets not an issue with equal earners.

Paying for 2 houses is not more expensive?

One with a $5K mortgage vs 2 with a 3K mortgage. Sure if you wanna split hairs. We also have to take 2 trashes out, the horror.

Sounds like you really are having your cake and eating it too.

By having two lame houses instead of one good one? Good luck on the dating scene to the divorcee with kids. Her ex-husband will probably get snapped up fairly quickly.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Dating now mid 40s with kids is vastly easier than it was 20 years ago without kids. Apps have changed everything. Women have more options than men.

“The options” being divorced dads lugging around kids with behavioral problems, who were either cheaters or total do-nothings…or never-been-married 40somethings who were never married for a reason, maybe the type to prey upon your daughters…sounds great. So many OPTIONS!

Hey, idiot: you need to read the research--the vast majority of kids do fine with divorce and do not suffer any more than their peers with married parents. This is well documented. You are so rude to say kids must have behaviorial problems.
Two: many people do not want kids...40 something men who never had kids are not necessarily damaged.
Also, dating is not cohabitation or remarriage. Kids have nothing to do with it. Many divorced people do not introduce members of the opposite sex to their kids. It is not at all necessary unless there is cohabitation or remarriage. In my case...not happening.

Maybe it is because the kids we know going through it are suffering and not fine at all. I am sure kids can grow up and become well adjusted adults. This can be the case if a parent dies, kid suffers abuse and any other traumatic event. These kids are in elementary and middle school.

Dh’s parents divorced when he went to college so he was already out of the house.

My elementary kids are fine. The research says most kids are completely fine and adjusted within 2 years. Stop with the divorce horror stories. It all depends on how the parents handle a divorce…not the divorce itself.

Sure, "fine and adjusted" for now until life dynamics come up when they are adults. My brother's partner told us at Thanksgiving how stressful it is for him to twist himself into knots this Christmas, trying to see mom's family and dad/stepmom's family and splitting holidays in general...it sounded fraught and is literally something he still talks to his therapist about.

Married people do the same with in laws.

Part of being amicable is we don’t fight over holidays or we do them together specifically to not put it on the kids.

We do our together and only expect Xmas eve dinner and breakfast … they do dinners with in laws/whoever they are dating family… sometimes dinner with us too. But we can change it if needed.

It’s flexible, once we just did something the Saturday after Xmas. (Because of travel)

Being amicable spreads to many facets of life.

I mean yes, married people do the same with in-laws. And that's enough splitting and expectations and sharing and not being able to please. Now you throw in multiple divorcees and remarriages and ay yi yi...

Yea that’s why amicable people either do holidays together or just pick a day close by because they don’t want to cause that type of situation.

You assume that all these divorced people are going to be amicable. It’s been 35 years, and I’m still waiting for my parents not to be having sh*t fits over spending time with one or the other for various holidays. I’m not the only person I know dealing with the dynamics like this so many years post divorce.

DH is a well adjusted very successful man. Both he and his brother are an emotional mess when it comes to their parents. If you met them, you would never know. The parents only come together for very important events like college graduations, med school graduation, our wedding, etc. Them being there ruins the happy moment for DH. I only know because he is my husband but I can feel his heavy heart.

The kids may not be crying and yelling but that doesn’t mean that they are not feeling it.

It's not at all clear that he would be better off if they had stayed together, though. That's the problem with divorce - it's impossible to know what the alternative would have looked like, but people in a bad situation always assume they would have been better off if the situation were different. It may just be bad in a different way, or bad in the same way with a different set of events leading to it.

Still would have sucked for most of us, but then at least Christmas only sucks at one celebration, not two. Divorced parents often lay it on the kids to manage the logistics of their split. The divorced couple are rarely as inconvenienced as the children involved. Look at 50/50 custody: kids get to do all the schlepping.

We are not talking about those divorces we are talking about amicable ones where holidays/birthdays/graduation are not split.

A lot of these “amicable” situations involve parents insisting “everything is fine,” while the kids quietly hate some aspect of what is going on. The parents seem to need to convince the world that everything is perfect. A Christmas card from a divorced couple screams “trying to hard.” Most people would side eye it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of us who find a joint Christmas card odd, I think the general consensus is that this doesn’t seem like a thing you are doing for the kids. It seems like a thing you are doing for yourselves. It also doesn’t seem particularly healthy for the kids. I am a child of an amicable divorce. My parents went to all of my events together and I really appreciated it. They also brought their significant others (once they were married), so there was no confusion on our end about the situation. The idea that there is never room for other significant others in your life leaves a lot of room for confusion with your kids. People showing up amicably for their kids’ events does not have to be mutually exclusive with moving on with new relationships. In fact, that’s what divorce is most of the time.

Nobody, talking about normal mature people, are doing Xmas cards for a reason other than to say happy holidays. It’s not advertising, it’s not a PR stunt.

You find a picture in your phone… sometimes just kids, sometimes everybody and you make card.

Nobody is not moving on. We are talking about 2 holidays, birthdays, weddings and graduations. Don’t be a d!ck take a simple pic.

Lol! This is why men think women are crazy they think everything is a move or has a meaning.

I really truly don’t think my Dh cares about sending a card to anyone.

If the mom wants to send a holiday greeting, fine. Send one. Her ex husband doesn’t have to be in it. Same for the dad. If he wants to make and send out a holiday card, also great. Just don’t send it out together. You are not married anymore. You are no longer a family that should be sending a holiday card together.

So every man is exactly like your H? My H sent me the pic, hey here’s a good one from graduation. Cool, 15 min later Xmas card complete. I even put “his” dog on the card, so sue me.

Maybe I should stop celebrating holidays and birthdays too because I’m “not a family” lol, you got mad takes.

Send your broken happy family photo card. do whatever you want. You asked. We answered. Send the picture of your dh’s dog. You can laugh at me. I’m laughing at you.

enjoy your disconnect disinterested H. I'm laughing all the way while I reach for the martini my ex just made me.

NP. Enjoy that martini. It’s a very costly one when you think of the legal fees, lost income, split assets…yikes!

Not PP. divorce is as expensive as people make it. Mine was less than 5k. No lost income. Split assets not an issue with equal earners.

Paying for 2 houses is not more expensive?

One with a $5K mortgage vs 2 with a 3K mortgage. Sure if you wanna split hairs. We also have to take 2 trashes out, the horror.

Sounds like you really are having your cake and eating it too.

By having two lame houses instead of one good one? Good luck on the dating scene to the divorcee with kids. Her ex-husband will probably get snapped up fairly quickly.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Dating now mid 40s with kids is vastly easier than it was 20 years ago without kids. Apps have changed everything. Women have more options than men.

“The options” being divorced dads lugging around kids with behavioral problems, who were either cheaters or total do-nothings…or never-been-married 40somethings who were never married for a reason, maybe the type to prey upon your daughters…sounds great. So many OPTIONS!

Hey, idiot: you need to read the research--the vast majority of kids do fine with divorce and do not suffer any more than their peers with married parents. This is well documented. You are so rude to say kids must have behaviorial problems.
Two: many people do not want kids...40 something men who never had kids are not necessarily damaged.
Also, dating is not cohabitation or remarriage. Kids have nothing to do with it. Many divorced people do not introduce members of the opposite sex to their kids. It is not at all necessary unless there is cohabitation or remarriage. In my case...not happening.

Maybe it is because the kids we know going through it are suffering and not fine at all. I am sure kids can grow up and become well adjusted adults. This can be the case if a parent dies, kid suffers abuse and any other traumatic event. These kids are in elementary and middle school.

Dh’s parents divorced when he went to college so he was already out of the house.

My elementary kids are fine. The research says most kids are completely fine and adjusted within 2 years. Stop with the divorce horror stories. It all depends on how the parents handle a divorce…not the divorce itself.

Sure, "fine and adjusted" for now until life dynamics come up when they are adults. My brother's partner told us at Thanksgiving how stressful it is for him to twist himself into knots this Christmas, trying to see mom's family and dad/stepmom's family and splitting holidays in general...it sounded fraught and is literally something he still talks to his therapist about.

Married people do the same with in laws.

Part of being amicable is we don’t fight over holidays or we do them together specifically to not put it on the kids.

We do our together and only expect Xmas eve dinner and breakfast … they do dinners with in laws/whoever they are dating family… sometimes dinner with us too. But we can change it if needed.

It’s flexible, once we just did something the Saturday after Xmas. (Because of travel)

Being amicable spreads to many facets of life.

I mean yes, married people do the same with in-laws. And that's enough splitting and expectations and sharing and not being able to please. Now you throw in multiple divorcees and remarriages and ay yi yi...

Yea that’s why amicable people either do holidays together or just pick a day close by because they don’t want to cause that type of situation.

You assume that all these divorced people are going to be amicable. It’s been 35 years, and I’m still waiting for my parents not to be having sh*t fits over spending time with one or the other for various holidays. I’m not the only person I know dealing with the dynamics like this so many years post divorce.

DH is a well adjusted very successful man. Both he and his brother are an emotional mess when it comes to their parents. If you met them, you would never know. The parents only come together for very important events like college graduations, med school graduation, our wedding, etc. Them being there ruins the happy moment for DH. I only know because he is my husband but I can feel his heavy heart.

The kids may not be crying and yelling but that doesn’t mean that they are not feeling it.

It's not at all clear that he would be better off if they had stayed together, though. That's the problem with divorce - it's impossible to know what the alternative would have looked like, but people in a bad situation always assume they would have been better off if the situation were different. It may just be bad in a different way, or bad in the same way with a different set of events leading to it.

Still would have sucked for most of us, but then at least Christmas only sucks at one celebration, not two. Divorced parents often lay it on the kids to manage the logistics of their split. The divorced couple are rarely as inconvenienced as the children involved. Look at 50/50 custody: kids get to do all the schlepping.

We are not talking about those divorces we are talking about amicable ones where holidays/birthdays/graduation are not split.

A lot of these “amicable” situations involve parents insisting “everything is fine,” while the kids quietly hate some aspect of what is going on. The parents seem to need to convince the world that everything is perfect. A Christmas card from a divorced couple screams “trying to hard.” Most people would side eye it.

When a couple breaks up, it is never actually mutual. Usually one party wanted to leave first and other party was broken up with. When a divorce happens, it is never truly happy and amicable. I mean you are breaking up a family.

I’m sure some parents try to keep it together for the kids. The people who may be the most upset are the kids.

[Anonymous]

Amicable = guilty ex tries to be polite and make everyone not hate him/her. Ex and kids just tolerate the party who caused the divorce.

Young kids may not know but the kids usually know if mom left dad for another guy. Or if dad treated mom bad. There is always a party at fault or at least in the eyes of the children.

For my in laws, FIL wanted a divorce. He dated and married much younger women. He is the nicest and friendliest at all our meetings. MIL, DH and BIL don’t think he is nice or kind. They think he is selfish but they just tolerate him.

[Anonymous]

FIL chose his own sexual happiness over keeping his family together.

[Anonymous]

It’s usually a huge mess.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of us who find a joint Christmas card odd, I think the general consensus is that this doesn’t seem like a thing you are doing for the kids. It seems like a thing you are doing for yourselves. It also doesn’t seem particularly healthy for the kids. I am a child of an amicable divorce. My parents went to all of my events together and I really appreciated it. They also brought their significant others (once they were married), so there was no confusion on our end about the situation. The idea that there is never room for other significant others in your life leaves a lot of room for confusion with your kids. People showing up amicably for their kids’ events does not have to be mutually exclusive with moving on with new relationships. In fact, that’s what divorce is most of the time.

Nobody, talking about normal mature people, are doing Xmas cards for a reason other than to say happy holidays. It’s not advertising, it’s not a PR stunt.

You find a picture in your phone… sometimes just kids, sometimes everybody and you make card.

Nobody is not moving on. We are talking about 2 holidays, birthdays, weddings and graduations. Don’t be a d!ck take a simple pic.

Lol! This is why men think women are crazy they think everything is a move or has a meaning.

I really truly don’t think my Dh cares about sending a card to anyone.

If the mom wants to send a holiday greeting, fine. Send one. Her ex husband doesn’t have to be in it. Same for the dad. If he wants to make and send out a holiday card, also great. Just don’t send it out together. You are not married anymore. You are no longer a family that should be sending a holiday card together.

So every man is exactly like your H? My H sent me the pic, hey here’s a good one from graduation. Cool, 15 min later Xmas card complete. I even put “his” dog on the card, so sue me.

Maybe I should stop celebrating holidays and birthdays too because I’m “not a family” lol, you got mad takes.

Send your broken happy family photo card. do whatever you want. You asked. We answered. Send the picture of your dh’s dog. You can laugh at me. I’m laughing at you.

enjoy your disconnect disinterested H. I'm laughing all the way while I reach for the martini my ex just made me.

NP. Enjoy that martini. It’s a very costly one when you think of the legal fees, lost income, split assets…yikes!

Not PP. divorce is as expensive as people make it. Mine was less than 5k. No lost income. Split assets not an issue with equal earners.

Paying for 2 houses is not more expensive?

One with a $5K mortgage vs 2 with a 3K mortgage. Sure if you wanna split hairs. We also have to take 2 trashes out, the horror.

Sounds like you really are having your cake and eating it too.

By having two lame houses instead of one good one? Good luck on the dating scene to the divorcee with kids. Her ex-husband will probably get snapped up fairly quickly.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Dating now mid 40s with kids is vastly easier than it was 20 years ago without kids. Apps have changed everything. Women have more options than men.

“The options” being divorced dads lugging around kids with behavioral problems, who were either cheaters or total do-nothings…or never-been-married 40somethings who were never married for a reason, maybe the type to prey upon your daughters…sounds great. So many OPTIONS!

Hey, idiot: you need to read the research--the vast majority of kids do fine with divorce and do not suffer any more than their peers with married parents. This is well documented. You are so rude to say kids must have behaviorial problems.
Two: many people do not want kids...40 something men who never had kids are not necessarily damaged.
Also, dating is not cohabitation or remarriage. Kids have nothing to do with it. Many divorced people do not introduce members of the opposite sex to their kids. It is not at all necessary unless there is cohabitation or remarriage. In my case...not happening.

Maybe it is because the kids we know going through it are suffering and not fine at all. I am sure kids can grow up and become well adjusted adults. This can be the case if a parent dies, kid suffers abuse and any other traumatic event. These kids are in elementary and middle school.

Dh’s parents divorced when he went to college so he was already out of the house.

My elementary kids are fine. The research says most kids are completely fine and adjusted within 2 years. Stop with the divorce horror stories. It all depends on how the parents handle a divorce…not the divorce itself.

Sure, "fine and adjusted" for now until life dynamics come up when they are adults. My brother's partner told us at Thanksgiving how stressful it is for him to twist himself into knots this Christmas, trying to see mom's family and dad/stepmom's family and splitting holidays in general...it sounded fraught and is literally something he still talks to his therapist about.

Married people do the same with in laws.

Part of being amicable is we don’t fight over holidays or we do them together specifically to not put it on the kids.

We do our together and only expect Xmas eve dinner and breakfast … they do dinners with in laws/whoever they are dating family… sometimes dinner with us too. But we can change it if needed.

It’s flexible, once we just did something the Saturday after Xmas. (Because of travel)

Being amicable spreads to many facets of life.

I mean yes, married people do the same with in-laws. And that's enough splitting and expectations and sharing and not being able to please. Now you throw in multiple divorcees and remarriages and ay yi yi...

Yea that’s why amicable people either do holidays together or just pick a day close by because they don’t want to cause that type of situation.

You assume that all these divorced people are going to be amicable. It’s been 35 years, and I’m still waiting for my parents not to be having sh*t fits over spending time with one or the other for various holidays. I’m not the only person I know dealing with the dynamics like this so many years post divorce.

DH is a well adjusted very successful man. Both he and his brother are an emotional mess when it comes to their parents. If you met them, you would never know. The parents only come together for very important events like college graduations, med school graduation, our wedding, etc. Them being there ruins the happy moment for DH. I only know because he is my husband but I can feel his heavy heart.

The kids may not be crying and yelling but that doesn’t mean that they are not feeling it.

It's not at all clear that he would be better off if they had stayed together, though. That's the problem with divorce - it's impossible to know what the alternative would have looked like, but people in a bad situation always assume they would have been better off if the situation were different. It may just be bad in a different way, or bad in the same way with a different set of events leading to it.

Still would have sucked for most of us, but then at least Christmas only sucks at one celebration, not two. Divorced parents often lay it on the kids to manage the logistics of their split. The divorced couple are rarely as inconvenienced as the children involved. Look at 50/50 custody: kids get to do all the schlepping.

We are not talking about those divorces we are talking about amicable ones where holidays/birthdays/graduation are not split.

A lot of these “amicable” situations involve parents insisting “everything is fine,” while the kids quietly hate some aspect of what is going on. The parents seem to need to convince the world that everything is perfect. A Christmas card from a divorced couple screams “trying to hard.” Most people would side eye it.

We are not talking about that, we are talking about amicable people that don't put unneeded stress on their kids. You are doing a lot of projecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amicable = guilty ex tries to be polite and make everyone not hate him/her. Ex and kids just tolerate the party who caused the divorce.

Young kids may not know but the kids usually know if mom left dad for another guy. Or if dad treated mom bad. There is always a party at fault or at least in the eyes of the children.

For my in laws, FIL wanted a divorce. He dated and married much younger women. He is the nicest and friendliest at all our meetings. MIL, DH and BIL don’t think he is nice or kind. They think he is selfish but they just tolerate him.

Create your own thread that is a different situation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread got really long. So to summarize for newbies trying to follow….

Dcmoms: kids of divorced are traumatized because their lives have been turned upside down
Also Dcmoms: you MUST get rid of all family traditions after a divorce, this makes me feel more secure in my marriage

LOL to summarize:

Divorced moms: being divorced is just a minor thing like being right or left-handed; anyone who thinks it's weird to act married while being divorced lives in the stone ages;
Everyone else: you look thirsty AF when you advertise how much of a family you still are thru cards and social media
Divorced moms: NO!! LOOK AT US! We are better people and parents because of not in spite of divorce. BELIEVE US!! HAPPY AF!!

Research finds divorced women are happier https://www.womansday.com/relationships/datin...ppier-after-divorce/

Also, it is better for kids to grow up with divorced parents than in a home with abuse. Abuse is major contributor to the initiation of divorces. Lastly, when children are young and divorce occurs they typically are not eager to break family traditions. Most divorced parents are very familiar with this. They get questions like…can we still A, B, C.

Women deserve happiness and love abuse free. Children deserve to live in homes with happy parents and free of abuse. Love conquers all. Some divorced people can still have love for one another and not want to be romantically linked. There should no shame in loving yourself and your family.

None of these conclusions should upset the married people on this board. Just as gay marriage didn’t unravel your sacred institution, neither with cooperative divorces. It just means there will be more happiness to go around. Have a great day!

The question is not whether the parents are happier, but whether the children are happier. And I'm not talking about getting out of abusive relationships. That makes sense that everyone is happier. I'm talking about the divorce over chores, sex, etc. With gay marriage, that was increasing family stability, so it makes total sense to support it. With divorce, it is decreasing it, no matter what the gleefully divorced want to think.

You can’t say X (married) is happier or Y (divorced) is happier. What we know is some marriages are happy, some are not. Some divorces are happier, some are not.

This thread is about an amicable marriage. Is it good for the kids to be amicable? Or is it better to be not amicable?

Some thing being amicable is confusing for kids. So if you’re going to be amicable you should stay married.

So if you’re not abused stay married. Really?

Actually, yes. You stay married to stay a family. Minus abuse, you put the needs of your kids and family over marginal personal wants.

No you don’t. I know you need to believe that to justify your choices but no you don’t have to stay in an unhappy marriage. But obviously an amicable divorce is better than a toxic one.

You don’t stay in an unhappy marriage, you might have tough time you work through but you don’t stay in a broken marriage.

No, you work on your unhappiness and find a way to be happy, or at least fix the "broken" marriage, because there are others who are affected by your decisions. This is called being a responsible parent, a well functioning grown up. If there is abuse, that's a different story. If you are married with no kids, a different story.

Some people believe in their marriage vows. Getting married isn’t some temporary relationship. You got married and created a family. No situation is perfect. Both parties have to be willing to put in the effort and be committed.

Children of divorce seem more willing to accept divorce and part ways.

In my experience, almost all divorces have some sort of infidelity. One or both parties not attracted to one another anymore sexually. One party has an emotional or physical affair or wants to have one or wants more. One or both spouses are selfish and put their happiness above their spouse and family. The selfish party may believe that it was better for everyone that they divorced but it was likely only better for the selfish party.

There are people who do not do their part in the agreement of the terms of the marriage, and in that case it is not worth staying. When you violate the terms of the agreement to getting married, then you shouldn’t be married.

No infidelity in my divorce or any I know. Some people have different life goals, and philosophies and lie about them. It is far better to divorce, then spend a lifetime and share miserably with somebody who has incompatible goals or lied about them to begin with.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of us who find a joint Christmas card odd, I think the general consensus is that this doesn’t seem like a thing you are doing for the kids. It seems like a thing you are doing for yourselves. It also doesn’t seem particularly healthy for the kids. I am a child of an amicable divorce. My parents went to all of my events together and I really appreciated it. They also brought their significant others (once they were married), so there was no confusion on our end about the situation. The idea that there is never room for other significant others in your life leaves a lot of room for confusion with your kids. People showing up amicably for their kids’ events does not have to be mutually exclusive with moving on with new relationships. In fact, that’s what divorce is most of the time.

Nobody, talking about normal mature people, are doing Xmas cards for a reason other than to say happy holidays. It’s not advertising, it’s not a PR stunt.

You find a picture in your phone… sometimes just kids, sometimes everybody and you make card.

Nobody is not moving on. We are talking about 2 holidays, birthdays, weddings and graduations. Don’t be a d!ck take a simple pic.

Lol! This is why men think women are crazy they think everything is a move or has a meaning.

I really truly don’t think my Dh cares about sending a card to anyone.

If the mom wants to send a holiday greeting, fine. Send one. Her ex husband doesn’t have to be in it. Same for the dad. If he wants to make and send out a holiday card, also great. Just don’t send it out together. You are not married anymore. You are no longer a family that should be sending a holiday card together.

So every man is exactly like your H? My H sent me the pic, hey here’s a good one from graduation. Cool, 15 min later Xmas card complete. I even put “his” dog on the card, so sue me.

Maybe I should stop celebrating holidays and birthdays too because I’m “not a family” lol, you got mad takes.

Send your broken happy family photo card. do whatever you want. You asked. We answered. Send the picture of your dh’s dog. You can laugh at me. I’m laughing at you.

enjoy your disconnect disinterested H. I'm laughing all the way while I reach for the martini my ex just made me.

NP. Enjoy that martini. It’s a very costly one when you think of the legal fees, lost income, split assets…yikes!

Not PP. divorce is as expensive as people make it. Mine was less than 5k. No lost income. Split assets not an issue with equal earners.

Paying for 2 houses is not more expensive?

One with a $5K mortgage vs 2 with a 3K mortgage. Sure if you wanna split hairs. We also have to take 2 trashes out, the horror.

Sounds like you really are having your cake and eating it too.

By having two lame houses instead of one good one? Good luck on the dating scene to the divorcee with kids. Her ex-husband will probably get snapped up fairly quickly.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Dating now mid 40s with kids is vastly easier than it was 20 years ago without kids. Apps have changed everything. Women have more options than men.

“The options” being divorced dads lugging around kids with behavioral problems, who were either cheaters or total do-nothings…or never-been-married 40somethings who were never married for a reason, maybe the type to prey upon your daughters…sounds great. So many OPTIONS!

Hey, idiot: you need to read the research--the vast majority of kids do fine with divorce and do not suffer any more than their peers with married parents. This is well documented. You are so rude to say kids must have behaviorial problems.
Two: many people do not want kids...40 something men who never had kids are not necessarily damaged.
Also, dating is not cohabitation or remarriage. Kids have nothing to do with it. Many divorced people do not introduce members of the opposite sex to their kids. It is not at all necessary unless there is cohabitation or remarriage. In my case...not happening.

Maybe it is because the kids we know going through it are suffering and not fine at all. I am sure kids can grow up and become well adjusted adults. This can be the case if a parent dies, kid suffers abuse and any other traumatic event. These kids are in elementary and middle school.

Dh’s parents divorced when he went to college so he was already out of the house.

My elementary kids are fine. The research says most kids are completely fine and adjusted within 2 years. Stop with the divorce horror stories. It all depends on how the parents handle a divorce…not the divorce itself.

Sure, "fine and adjusted" for now until life dynamics come up when they are adults. My brother's partner told us at Thanksgiving how stressful it is for him to twist himself into knots this Christmas, trying to see mom's family and dad/stepmom's family and splitting holidays in general...it sounded fraught and is literally something he still talks to his therapist about.

Married people do the same with in laws.

Part of being amicable is we don’t fight over holidays or we do them together specifically to not put it on the kids.

We do our together and only expect Xmas eve dinner and breakfast … they do dinners with in laws/whoever they are dating family… sometimes dinner with us too. But we can change it if needed.

It’s flexible, once we just did something the Saturday after Xmas. (Because of travel)

Being amicable spreads to many facets of life.

I mean yes, married people do the same with in-laws. And that's enough splitting and expectations and sharing and not being able to please. Now you throw in multiple divorcees and remarriages and ay yi yi...

Yea that’s why amicable people either do holidays together or just pick a day close by because they don’t want to cause that type of situation.

You assume that all these divorced people are going to be amicable. It’s been 35 years, and I’m still waiting for my parents not to be having sh*t fits over spending time with one or the other for various holidays. I’m not the only person I know dealing with the dynamics like this so many years post divorce.

DH is a well adjusted very successful man. Both he and his brother are an emotional mess when it comes to their parents. If you met them, you would never know. The parents only come together for very important events like college graduations, med school graduation, our wedding, etc. Them being there ruins the happy moment for DH. I only know because he is my husband but I can feel his heavy heart.

The kids may not be crying and yelling but that doesn’t mean that they are not feeling it.

It's not at all clear that he would be better off if they had stayed together, though. That's the problem with divorce - it's impossible to know what the alternative would have looked like, but people in a bad situation always assume they would have been better off if the situation were different. It may just be bad in a different way, or bad in the same way with a different set of events leading to it.

Still would have sucked for most of us, but then at least Christmas only sucks at one celebration, not two. Divorced parents often lay it on the kids to manage the logistics of their split. The divorced couple are rarely as inconvenienced as the children involved. Look at 50/50 custody: kids get to do all the schlepping.

We are not talking about those divorces we are talking about amicable ones where holidays/birthdays/graduation are not split.

A lot of these “amicable” situations involve parents insisting “everything is fine,” while the kids quietly hate some aspect of what is going on. The parents seem to need to convince the world that everything is perfect. A Christmas card from a divorced couple screams “trying to hard.” Most people would side eye it.

When a couple breaks up, it is never actually mutual. Usually one party wanted to leave first and other party was broken up with. When a divorce happens, it is never truly happy and amicable. I mean you are breaking up a family.

I’m sure some parents try to keep it together for the kids. The people who may be the most upset are the kids.

It can start that way, but still and amicably. Once the other partner comes to the understanding that they should not be married. And then they can, indeed, both act like civil adults…even if one resisted the divorce originally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread got really long. So to summarize for newbies trying to follow….

Dcmoms: kids of divorced are traumatized because their lives have been turned upside down
Also Dcmoms: you MUST get rid of all family traditions after a divorce, this makes me feel more secure in my marriage

LOL to summarize:

Divorced moms: being divorced is just a minor thing like being right or left-handed; anyone who thinks it's weird to act married while being divorced lives in the stone ages;
Everyone else: you look thirsty AF when you advertise how much of a family you still are thru cards and social media
Divorced moms: NO!! LOOK AT US! We are better people and parents because of not in spite of divorce. BELIEVE US!! HAPPY AF!!

Research finds divorced women are happier https://www.womansday.com/relationships/datin...ppier-after-divorce/

Also, it is better for kids to grow up with divorced parents than in a home with abuse. Abuse is major contributor to the initiation of divorces. Lastly, when children are young and divorce occurs they typically are not eager to break family traditions. Most divorced parents are very familiar with this. They get questions like…can we still A, B, C.

Women deserve happiness and love abuse free. Children deserve to live in homes with happy parents and free of abuse. Love conquers all. Some divorced people can still have love for one another and not want to be romantically linked. There should no shame in loving yourself and your family.

None of these conclusions should upset the married people on this board. Just as gay marriage didn’t unravel your sacred institution, neither with cooperative divorces. It just means there will be more happiness to go around. Have a great day!

The question is not whether the parents are happier, but whether the children are happier. And I'm not talking about getting out of abusive relationships. That makes sense that everyone is happier. I'm talking about the divorce over chores, sex, etc. With gay marriage, that was increasing family stability, so it makes total sense to support it. With divorce, it is decreasing it, no matter what the gleefully divorced want to think.

You can’t say X (married) is happier or Y (divorced) is happier. What we know is some marriages are happy, some are not. Some divorces are happier, some are not.

This thread is about an amicable marriage. Is it good for the kids to be amicable? Or is it better to be not amicable?

Some thing being amicable is confusing for kids. So if you’re going to be amicable you should stay married.

So if you’re not abused stay married. Really?

Actually, yes. You stay married to stay a family. Minus abuse, you put the needs of your kids and family over marginal personal wants.

No you don’t. I know you need to believe that to justify your choices but no you don’t have to stay in an unhappy marriage. But obviously an amicable divorce is better than a toxic one.

You don’t stay in an unhappy marriage, you might have tough time you work through but you don’t stay in a broken marriage.

No, you work on your unhappiness and find a way to be happy, or at least fix the "broken" marriage, because there are others who are affected by your decisions. This is called being a responsible parent, a well functioning grown up. If there is abuse, that's a different story. If you are married with no kids, a different story.

Not every marriage is fixable. But once people move on it’s easier to get along not having the marital drama. Even when there is abuse/infidelity.

Being a responsible parent is knowing when to call it quits instead of staying in a broken situation.

Amen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread got really long. So to summarize for newbies trying to follow….

Dcmoms: kids of divorced are traumatized because their lives have been turned upside down
Also Dcmoms: you MUST get rid of all family traditions after a divorce, this makes me feel more secure in my marriage

LOL to summarize:

Divorced moms: being divorced is just a minor thing like being right or left-handed; anyone who thinks it's weird to act married while being divorced lives in the stone ages;
Everyone else: you look thirsty AF when you advertise how much of a family you still are thru cards and social media
Divorced moms: NO!! LOOK AT US! We are better people and parents because of not in spite of divorce. BELIEVE US!! HAPPY AF!!

Research finds divorced women are happier https://www.womansday.com/relationships/datin...ppier-after-divorce/

Also, it is better for kids to grow up with divorced parents than in a home with abuse. Abuse is major contributor to the initiation of divorces. Lastly, when children are young and divorce occurs they typically are not eager to break family traditions. Most divorced parents are very familiar with this. They get questions like…can we still A, B, C.

Women deserve happiness and love abuse free. Children deserve to live in homes with happy parents and free of abuse. Love conquers all. Some divorced people can still have love for one another and not want to be romantically linked. There should no shame in loving yourself and your family.

None of these conclusions should upset the married people on this board. Just as gay marriage didn’t unravel your sacred institution, neither with cooperative divorces. It just means there will be more happiness to go around. Have a great day!

The question is not whether the parents are happier, but whether the children are happier. And I'm not talking about getting out of abusive relationships. That makes sense that everyone is happier. I'm talking about the divorce over chores, sex, etc. With gay marriage, that was increasing family stability, so it makes total sense to support it. With divorce, it is decreasing it, no matter what the gleefully divorced want to think.

You can’t say X (married) is happier or Y (divorced) is happier. What we know is some marriages are happy, some are not. Some divorces are happier, some are not.

This thread is about an amicable marriage. Is it good for the kids to be amicable? Or is it better to be not amicable?

Some thing being amicable is confusing for kids. So if you’re going to be amicable you should stay married.

So if you’re not abused stay married. Really?

Actually, yes. You stay married to stay a family. Minus abuse, you put the needs of your kids and family over marginal personal wants.

No you don’t. I know you need to believe that to justify your choices but no you don’t have to stay in an unhappy marriage. But obviously an amicable divorce is better than a toxic one.

You don’t stay in an unhappy marriage, you might have tough time you work through but you don’t stay in a broken marriage.

No, you work on your unhappiness and find a way to be happy, or at least fix the "broken" marriage, because there are others who are affected by your decisions. This is called being a responsible parent, a well functioning grown up. If there is abuse, that's a different story. If you are married with no kids, a different story.

Not every marriage is fixable. But once people move on it’s easier to get along not having the marital drama. Even when there is abuse/infidelity.

Being a responsible parent is knowing when to call it quits instead of staying in a broken situation.

Amen!

Totally agree, but TBH I don't care to receive a photo of you posing with your formerly abusive husband at Xmas. Yes, you should divorce abusive men. No, you don't need to make some desperate showing that you still support him as the father of your kids. Focus on your kids, not randoms you might mail a card to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread got really long. So to summarize for newbies trying to follow….

Dcmoms: kids of divorced are traumatized because their lives have been turned upside down
Also Dcmoms: you MUST get rid of all family traditions after a divorce, this makes me feel more secure in my marriage

LOL to summarize:

Divorced moms: being divorced is just a minor thing like being right or left-handed; anyone who thinks it's weird to act married while being divorced lives in the stone ages;
Everyone else: you look thirsty AF when you advertise how much of a family you still are thru cards and social media
Divorced moms: NO!! LOOK AT US! We are better people and parents because of not in spite of divorce. BELIEVE US!! HAPPY AF!!

Research finds divorced women are happier https://www.womansday.com/relationships/datin...ppier-after-divorce/

Also, it is better for kids to grow up with divorced parents than in a home with abuse. Abuse is major contributor to the initiation of divorces. Lastly, when children are young and divorce occurs they typically are not eager to break family traditions. Most divorced parents are very familiar with this. They get questions like…can we still A, B, C.

Women deserve happiness and love abuse free. Children deserve to live in homes with happy parents and free of abuse. Love conquers all. Some divorced people can still have love for one another and not want to be romantically linked. There should no shame in loving yourself and your family.

None of these conclusions should upset the married people on this board. Just as gay marriage didn’t unravel your sacred institution, neither with cooperative divorces. It just means there will be more happiness to go around. Have a great day!

The question is not whether the parents are happier, but whether the children are happier. And I'm not talking about getting out of abusive relationships. That makes sense that everyone is happier. I'm talking about the divorce over chores, sex, etc. With gay marriage, that was increasing family stability, so it makes total sense to support it. With divorce, it is decreasing it, no matter what the gleefully divorced want to think.

You can’t say X (married) is happier or Y (divorced) is happier. What we know is some marriages are happy, some are not. Some divorces are happier, some are not.

This thread is about an amicable marriage. Is it good for the kids to be amicable? Or is it better to be not amicable?

Some thing being amicable is confusing for kids. So if you’re going to be amicable you should stay married.

So if you’re not abused stay married. Really?

Actually, yes. You stay married to stay a family. Minus abuse, you put the needs of your kids and family over marginal personal wants.

No you don’t. I know you need to believe that to justify your choices but no you don’t have to stay in an unhappy marriage. But obviously an amicable divorce is better than a toxic one.

You don’t stay in an unhappy marriage, you might have tough time you work through but you don’t stay in a broken marriage.

No, you work on your unhappiness and find a way to be happy, or at least fix the "broken" marriage, because there are others who are affected by your decisions. This is called being a responsible parent, a well functioning grown up. If there is abuse, that's a different story. If you are married with no kids, a different story.

Not every marriage is fixable. But once people move on it’s easier to get along not having the marital drama. Even when there is abuse/infidelity.

Being a responsible parent is knowing when to call it quits instead of staying in a broken situation.

Amen!

Totally agree, but TBH I don't care to receive a photo of you posing with your formerly abusive husband at Xmas. Yes, you should divorce abusive men. No, you don't need to make some desperate showing that you still support him as the father of your kids. Focus on your kids, not randoms you might mail a card to.

My thoughts as well. I'd rather see my friend moving on, not holding on to a photo-perfect version of a family that caused her (or him) so much misery that they decided to divorce. No to the joint Christmas card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who find a joint Christmas card odd, I think the general consensus is that this doesn’t seem like a thing you are doing for the kids. It seems like a thing you are doing for yourselves. It also doesn’t seem particularly healthy for the kids. I am a child of an amicable divorce. My parents went to all of my events together and I really appreciated it. They also brought their significant others (once they were married), so there was no confusion on our end about the situation. The idea that there is never room for other significant others in your life leaves a lot of room for confusion with your kids. People showing up amicably for their kids’ events does not have to be mutually exclusive with moving on with new relationships. In fact, that’s what divorce is most of the time.

Nobody, talking about normal mature people, are doing Xmas cards for a reason other than to say happy holidays. It’s not advertising, it’s not a PR stunt.

You find a picture in your phone… sometimes just kids, sometimes everybody and you make card.

Nobody is not moving on. We are talking about 2 holidays, birthdays, weddings and graduations. Don’t be a d!ck take a simple pic.

Lol! This is why men think women are crazy they think everything is a move or has a meaning.

I really truly don’t think my Dh cares about sending a card to anyone.

If the mom wants to send a holiday greeting, fine. Send one. Her ex husband doesn’t have to be in it. Same for the dad. If he wants to make and send out a holiday card, also great. Just don’t send it out together. You are not married anymore. You are no longer a family that should be sending a holiday card together.

So every man is exactly like your H? My H sent me the pic, hey here’s a good one from graduation. Cool, 15 min later Xmas card complete. I even put “his” dog on the card, so sue me.

Maybe I should stop celebrating holidays and birthdays too because I’m “not a family” lol, you got mad takes.

Send your broken happy family photo card. do whatever you want. You asked. We answered. Send the picture of your dh’s dog. You can laugh at me. I’m laughing at you.

enjoy your disconnect disinterested H. I'm laughing all the way while I reach for the martini my ex just made me.

NP. Enjoy that martini. It’s a very costly one when you think of the legal fees, lost income, split assets…yikes!

Not PP. divorce is as expensive as people make it. Mine was less than 5k. No lost income. Split assets not an issue with equal earners.

Paying for 2 houses is not more expensive?

One with a $5K mortgage vs 2 with a 3K mortgage. Sure if you wanna split hairs. We also have to take 2 trashes out, the horror.

Sounds like you really are having your cake and eating it too.

By having two lame houses instead of one good one? Good luck on the dating scene to the divorcee with kids. Her ex-husband will probably get snapped up fairly quickly.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Dating now mid 40s with kids is vastly easier than it was 20 years ago without kids. Apps have changed everything. Women have more options than men.

“The options” being divorced dads lugging around kids with behavioral problems, who were either cheaters or total do-nothings…or never-been-married 40somethings who were never married for a reason, maybe the type to prey upon your daughters…sounds great. So many OPTIONS!

Hey, idiot: you need to read the research--the vast majority of kids do fine with divorce and do not suffer any more than their peers with married parents. This is well documented. You are so rude to say kids must have behaviorial problems.
Two: many people do not want kids...40 something men who never had kids are not necessarily damaged.
Also, dating is not cohabitation or remarriage. Kids have nothing to do with it. Many divorced people do not introduce members of the opposite sex to their kids. It is not at all necessary unless there is cohabitation or remarriage. In my case...not happening.

Maybe it is because the kids we know going through it are suffering and not fine at all. I am sure kids can grow up and become well adjusted adults. This can be the case if a parent dies, kid suffers abuse and any other traumatic event. These kids are in elementary and middle school.

Dh’s parents divorced when he went to college so he was already out of the house.

My elementary kids are fine. The research says most kids are completely fine and adjusted within 2 years. Stop with the divorce horror stories. It all depends on how the parents handle a divorce…not the divorce itself.

Sure, "fine and adjusted" for now until life dynamics come up when they are adults. My brother's partner told us at Thanksgiving how stressful it is for him to twist himself into knots this Christmas, trying to see mom's family and dad/stepmom's family and splitting holidays in general...it sounded fraught and is literally something he still talks to his therapist about.

Married people do the same with in laws.

Part of being amicable is we don’t fight over holidays or we do them together specifically to not put it on the kids.

We do our together and only expect Xmas eve dinner and breakfast … they do dinners with in laws/whoever they are dating family… sometimes dinner with us too. But we can change it if needed.

It’s flexible, once we just did something the Saturday after Xmas. (Because of travel)

Being amicable spreads to many facets of life.

I mean yes, married people do the same with in-laws. And that's enough splitting and expectations and sharing and not being able to please. Now you throw in multiple divorcees and remarriages and ay yi yi...

Yea that’s why amicable people either do holidays together or just pick a day close by because they don’t want to cause that type of situation.

You assume that all these divorced people are going to be amicable. It’s been 35 years, and I’m still waiting for my parents not to be having sh*t fits over spending time with one or the other for various holidays. I’m not the only person I know dealing with the dynamics like this so many years post divorce.

DH is a well adjusted very successful man. Both he and his brother are an emotional mess when it comes to their parents. If you met them, you would never know. The parents only come together for very important events like college graduations, med school graduation, our wedding, etc. Them being there ruins the happy moment for DH. I only know because he is my husband but I can feel his heavy heart.

The kids may not be crying and yelling but that doesn’t mean that they are not feeling it.

It's not at all clear that he would be better off if they had stayed together, though. That's the problem with divorce - it's impossible to know what the alternative would have looked like, but people in a bad situation always assume they would have been better off if the situation were different. It may just be bad in a different way, or bad in the same way with a different set of events leading to it.

Still would have sucked for most of us, but then at least Christmas only sucks at one celebration, not two. Divorced parents often lay it on the kids to manage the logistics of their split. The divorced couple are rarely as inconvenienced as the children involved. Look at 50/50 custody: kids get to do all the schlepping.

We are not talking about those divorces we are talking about amicable ones where holidays/birthdays/graduation are not split.

A lot of these “amicable” situations involve parents insisting “everything is fine,” while the kids quietly hate some aspect of what is going on. The parents seem to need to convince the world that everything is perfect. A Christmas card from a divorced couple screams “trying to hard.” Most people would side eye it.

When a couple breaks up, it is never actually mutual. Usually one party wanted to leave first and other party was broken up with. When a divorce happens, it is never truly happy and amicable. I mean you are breaking up a family.

I’m sure some parents try to keep it together for the kids. The people who may be the most upset are the kids.

It can start that way, but still and amicably. Once the other partner comes to the understanding that they should not be married. And then they can, indeed, both act like civil adults…even if one resisted the divorce originally.

Being resigned to one’s fate when your spouse forces your hand is not the same as an amicable end. Life has to go on at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who find a joint Christmas card odd, I think the general consensus is that this doesn’t seem like a thing you are doing for the kids. It seems like a thing you are doing for yourselves. It also doesn’t seem particularly healthy for the kids. I am a child of an amicable divorce. My parents went to all of my events together and I really appreciated it. They also brought their significant others (once they were married), so there was no confusion on our end about the situation. The idea that there is never room for other significant others in your life leaves a lot of room for confusion with your kids. People showing up amicably for their kids’ events does not have to be mutually exclusive with moving on with new relationships. In fact, that’s what divorce is most of the time.

Nobody, talking about normal mature people, are doing Xmas cards for a reason other than to say happy holidays. It’s not advertising, it’s not a PR stunt.

You find a picture in your phone… sometimes just kids, sometimes everybody and you make card.

Nobody is not moving on. We are talking about 2 holidays, birthdays, weddings and graduations. Don’t be a d!ck take a simple pic.

Lol! This is why men think women are crazy they think everything is a move or has a meaning.

I really truly don’t think my Dh cares about sending a card to anyone.

If the mom wants to send a holiday greeting, fine. Send one. Her ex husband doesn’t have to be in it. Same for the dad. If he wants to make and send out a holiday card, also great. Just don’t send it out together. You are not married anymore. You are no longer a family that should be sending a holiday card together.

So every man is exactly like your H? My H sent me the pic, hey here’s a good one from graduation. Cool, 15 min later Xmas card complete. I even put “his” dog on the card, so sue me.

Maybe I should stop celebrating holidays and birthdays too because I’m “not a family” lol, you got mad takes.

Send your broken happy family photo card. do whatever you want. You asked. We answered. Send the picture of your dh’s dog. You can laugh at me. I’m laughing at you.

enjoy your disconnect disinterested H. I'm laughing all the way while I reach for the martini my ex just made me.

NP. Enjoy that martini. It’s a very costly one when you think of the legal fees, lost income, split assets…yikes!

Not PP. divorce is as expensive as people make it. Mine was less than 5k. No lost income. Split assets not an issue with equal earners.

Paying for 2 houses is not more expensive?

One with a $5K mortgage vs 2 with a 3K mortgage. Sure if you wanna split hairs. We also have to take 2 trashes out, the horror.

Sounds like you really are having your cake and eating it too.

By having two lame houses instead of one good one? Good luck on the dating scene to the divorcee with kids. Her ex-husband will probably get snapped up fairly quickly.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Dating now mid 40s with kids is vastly easier than it was 20 years ago without kids. Apps have changed everything. Women have more options than men.

“The options” being divorced dads lugging around kids with behavioral problems, who were either cheaters or total do-nothings…or never-been-married 40somethings who were never married for a reason, maybe the type to prey upon your daughters…sounds great. So many OPTIONS!

Hey, idiot: you need to read the research--the vast majority of kids do fine with divorce and do not suffer any more than their peers with married parents. This is well documented. You are so rude to say kids must have behaviorial problems.
Two: many people do not want kids...40 something men who never had kids are not necessarily damaged.
Also, dating is not cohabitation or remarriage. Kids have nothing to do with it. Many divorced people do not introduce members of the opposite sex to their kids. It is not at all necessary unless there is cohabitation or remarriage. In my case...not happening.

Maybe it is because the kids we know going through it are suffering and not fine at all. I am sure kids can grow up and become well adjusted adults. This can be the case if a parent dies, kid suffers abuse and any other traumatic event. These kids are in elementary and middle school.

Dh’s parents divorced when he went to college so he was already out of the house.

My elementary kids are fine. The research says most kids are completely fine and adjusted within 2 years. Stop with the divorce horror stories. It all depends on how the parents handle a divorce…not the divorce itself.

Sure, "fine and adjusted" for now until life dynamics come up when they are adults. My brother's partner told us at Thanksgiving how stressful it is for him to twist himself into knots this Christmas, trying to see mom's family and dad/stepmom's family and splitting holidays in general...it sounded fraught and is literally something he still talks to his therapist about.

Married people do the same with in laws.

Part of being amicable is we don’t fight over holidays or we do them together specifically to not put it on the kids.

We do our together and only expect Xmas eve dinner and breakfast … they do dinners with in laws/whoever they are dating family… sometimes dinner with us too. But we can change it if needed.

It’s flexible, once we just did something the Saturday after Xmas. (Because of travel)

Being amicable spreads to many facets of life.

I mean yes, married people do the same with in-laws. And that's enough splitting and expectations and sharing and not being able to please. Now you throw in multiple divorcees and remarriages and ay yi yi...

Yea that’s why amicable people either do holidays together or just pick a day close by because they don’t want to cause that type of situation.

You assume that all these divorced people are going to be amicable. It’s been 35 years, and I’m still waiting for my parents not to be having sh*t fits over spending time with one or the other for various holidays. I’m not the only person I know dealing with the dynamics like this so many years post divorce.

DH is a well adjusted very successful man. Both he and his brother are an emotional mess when it comes to their parents. If you met them, you would never know. The parents only come together for very important events like college graduations, med school graduation, our wedding, etc. Them being there ruins the happy moment for DH. I only know because he is my husband but I can feel his heavy heart.

The kids may not be crying and yelling but that doesn’t mean that they are not feeling it.

It's not at all clear that he would be better off if they had stayed together, though. That's the problem with divorce - it's impossible to know what the alternative would have looked like, but people in a bad situation always assume they would have been better off if the situation were different. It may just be bad in a different way, or bad in the same way with a different set of events leading to it.

Still would have sucked for most of us, but then at least Christmas only sucks at one celebration, not two. Divorced parents often lay it on the kids to manage the logistics of their split. The divorced couple are rarely as inconvenienced as the children involved. Look at 50/50 custody: kids get to do all the schlepping.

We are not talking about those divorces we are talking about amicable ones where holidays/birthdays/graduation are not split.

A lot of these “amicable” situations involve parents insisting “everything is fine,” while the kids quietly hate some aspect of what is going on. The parents seem to need to convince the world that everything is perfect. A Christmas card from a divorced couple screams “trying to hard.” Most people would side eye it.

We are not talking about that, we are talking about amicable people that don't put unneeded stress on their kids. You are doing a lot of projecting.

As a 20something product of an “amicable divorce,” I have very mixed feelings about this whole perspective. My divorced parents paling around and wanting to vacation as a family fueled years of hoping and believing they’d remarry. When my dad met someone else and moved on, it was even more devastating than the divorce, but even my mom dismissed my feelings about it because “we are divorced but the bestest of friends” was her mantra.