Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

If the thing that they offer is diversity, then the higher scoring students are being denied admission based on race. If this case goes the way people expect it to, those scores will either turn into acceptances next year or very expensive settlements

Agree with you on what the Supreme Court will do, but not on the consequences. All these schools will go test optional (conveniently many are already there with Covid) and then the disparate racial standards will never be so clear and quantifiable again. No more lawsuits.

PP posted MCAT scores. Medical schools will not go test optional. Some will stop trying to achieve a diverse class. Those that don't will start getting sued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

If the thing that they offer is diversity, then the higher scoring students are being denied admission based on race. If this case goes the way people expect it to, those scores will either turn into acceptances next year or very expensive settlements

Agree with you on what the Supreme Court will do, but not on the consequences. All these schools will go test optional (conveniently many are already there with Covid) and then the disparate racial standards will never be so clear and quantifiable again. No more lawsuits.

PP posted MCAT scores. Medical schools will not go test optional. Some will stop trying to achieve a diverse class. Those that don't will start getting sued.

Yes they will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

+1 especially all-women/ all-men schools will see lawsuits, especially considering the politics around LGBTQ rights.

It came up in the oral argument.

Are there single sex publicly funded colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Might have made a mistake w/ the code:

I can understand having a different metric based on income level, but not on race. That is by definition, racism, as the PP noted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

If the thing that they offer is diversity, then the higher scoring students are being denied admission based on race. If this case goes the way people expect it to, those scores will either turn into acceptances next year or very expensive settlements

Agree with you on what the Supreme Court will do, but not on the consequences. All these schools will go test optional (conveniently many are already there with Covid) and then the disparate racial standards will never be so clear and quantifiable again. No more lawsuits.

PP posted MCAT scores. Medical schools will not go test optional. Some will stop trying to achieve a diverse class. Those that don't will start getting sued.

Yes they will.

DP.. I prefer going to a doctor who had decent MCAT scores, not one would've failed MCAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

They don't have to say, but the numbers clearly show that their actual actions are stating otherwise. Asians have to score higher on the MCAT and have a significantly higher GPA. It is clearly based on their race.

So you think entire teams of admissions officers, plus all the other officials who are aware of their policies, are in on a secret plot to deny admission to Asians? And not one member of those teams has the integrity to come forth and speak the truth, which would lead to a very quick loss in court? If so, you're worse than QAnon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

+1 especially all-women/ all-men schools will see lawsuits, especially considering the politics around LGBTQ rights.

It came up in the oral argument.

Are there single sex publicly funded colleges?

Hampden Sydney takes federal student loans. As far as I know, Hillsdale is the only college in the country that will not accept any federal money.

[Anonymous]

Amazing these people think no standard and randomizing is better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

They don't have to say, but the numbers clearly show that their actual actions are stating otherwise. Asians have to score higher on the MCAT and have a significantly higher GPA. It is clearly based on their race.

So you think entire teams of admissions officers, plus all the other officials who are aware of their policies, are in on a secret plot to deny admission to Asians? And not one member of those teams has the integrity to come forth and speak the truth, which would lead to a very quick loss in court? If so, you're worse than QAnon.

Not PP. I think admissions departments are under tremendous pressure to admit diverse classes. As long as admissions is zero sum, that means that more qualified applicants who are not the correct race get denied admission in favor of less qualified applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

If the thing that they offer is diversity, then the higher scoring students are being denied admission based on race. If this case goes the way people expect it to, those scores will either turn into acceptances next year or very expensive settlements

Agree with you on what the Supreme Court will do, but not on the consequences. All these schools will go test optional (conveniently many are already there with Covid) and then the disparate racial standards will never be so clear and quantifiable again. No more lawsuits.

PP posted MCAT scores. Medical schools will not go test optional. Some will stop trying to achieve a diverse class. Those that don't will start getting sued.

Yes they will.

DP.. I prefer going to a doctor who had decent MCAT scores, not one would've failed MCAT.

Go to whatever doctor you choose. That is fine.

But I am just saying that these educational institution are not going to just give up on diversity if they think it is an integral part of their educational mission. If they can't consider race they will adjust and find other criteria to use to fulfill their mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

+1 especially all-women/ all-men schools will see lawsuits, especially considering the politics around LGBTQ rights.

It came up in the oral argument.

Are there single sex publicly funded colleges?

Hampden Sydney takes federal student loans. As far as I know, Hillsdale is the only college in the country that will not accept any federal money.

That’s not the same thing - that’s money going to the student. I believe we understood publicly funded colleges couldn’t discriminate on sex years ago, the exact reason the Citadel opened to women. SCOTUS said they had to lose state funds or admit women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

They don't have to say, but the numbers clearly show that their actual actions are stating otherwise. Asians have to score higher on the MCAT and have a significantly higher GPA. It is clearly based on their race.

So you think entire teams of admissions officers, plus all the other officials who are aware of their policies, are in on a secret plot to deny admission to Asians? And not one member of those teams has the integrity to come forth and speak the truth, which would lead to a very quick loss in court? If so, you're worse than QAnon.

They are. You are not allowed to speak out against the diversity machine. We're so progressive that we've become racist. Why don't you look into why Asians have been denied at top universities. Soft reasons for why Asians have been denied by admissions officers at Harvard were due to 'personality scores' based on perceptions that an Asian student would probably 'study too much and not do well with team work' or that an Asian student basically had 'no sense of humor'. Basically, Asian students being denied because they were perceived as 'not being able to keep it real'. I mean what kind of BS nonsense is that, other than stereotyping Asian students based on their race. Yes, there is absolutely systemic racism at universities because university admins have no spine to stand up to the diversity and social justice warriors. Diversity doesn't really mean diversity....it only means apply exceptions to the rule for a very, very select group while discriminating against others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

If the thing that they offer is diversity, then the higher scoring students are being denied admission based on race. If this case goes the way people expect it to, those scores will either turn into acceptances next year or very expensive settlements

Agree with you on what the Supreme Court will do, but not on the consequences. All these schools will go test optional (conveniently many are already there with Covid) and then the disparate racial standards will never be so clear and quantifiable again. No more lawsuits.

PP posted MCAT scores. Medical schools will not go test optional. Some will stop trying to achieve a diverse class. Those that don't will start getting sued.

Why won't medical schools go test optional? What makes them different from any other educational institution? They absolutely care about diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

There is not one school in the country that is saying Asians must have higher scores and GPAs in order to be admitted. Because that WOULD be racism. You're just making that assumption based on others with lower numbers being admitted. But the reason they're admitted is because they offer something else the college values, not because they're not Asian.

If the thing that they offer is diversity, then the higher scoring students are being denied admission based on race. If this case goes the way people expect it to, those scores will either turn into acceptances next year or very expensive settlements

Agree with you on what the Supreme Court will do, but not on the consequences. All these schools will go test optional (conveniently many are already there with Covid) and then the disparate racial standards will never be so clear and quantifiable again. No more lawsuits.

PP posted MCAT scores. Medical schools will not go test optional. Some will stop trying to achieve a diverse class. Those that don't will start getting sued.

Yes they will.

DP.. I prefer going to a doctor who had decent MCAT scores, not one would've failed MCAT.

Go to whatever doctor you choose. That is fine.

But I am just saying that these educational institution are not going to just give up on diversity if they think it is an integral part of their educational mission. If they can't consider race they will adjust and find other criteria to use to fulfill their mission.

ok but they have to have *some* standards, so why not MCAT? Why drop it.

BTW, my previous PCP was a black lady. Loved her, but she quit practice to go into policy dealing with holistic care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

+1 especially all-women/ all-men schools will see lawsuits, especially considering the politics around LGBTQ rights.

It came up in the oral argument.

Are there single sex publicly funded colleges?

Hampden Sydney takes federal student loans. As far as I know, Hillsdale is the only college in the country that will not accept any federal money.

That’s not the same thing - that’s money going to the student. I believe we understood publicly funded colleges couldn’t discriminate on sex years ago, the exact reason the Citadel opened to women. SCOTUS said they had to lose state funds or admit women.

I don't think there has ever been a lawsuit attempting to tie federal student aid to public funding. I wouldn't be positive that accepting pell grants (which are checks from the treasury to schools) wouldn't open schools to discrimination claim. VMI and the Citadel were clearly public schools, so that part was open and shut. Has anyone ever sued one of the 7 sister of an all male school (is Hampden Sydney the only one left?) over gender discrimination? Smith was sued in the 80s under Mass state law, but I don't think any have been sued under federal law.