Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
For anyone interested, the other five districts which will be impacted are:
Bradford County Development Authority, Bradford County
Sunshine Water Control District, Broward County
Eastpoint Water and Sewer District, Franklin County
Hamilton County Development Authority, Hamilton County
Marion County Law Library, Marion County
"...this harsh reaction to corporate speech should give pause to any company thinking about moving here. The tax climate is great. But the political climate can turn on you in an instant."
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
DP. Okay, you're going to keep dodging the question because you know there is no benefit to anyone from doing this. They counties aren't losing any payoff, they are going to keep getting the same amount of tax revenue from Disney that they did before but will have to take on the cost of providing all of Disney's municipal services and will will become responsible for its debt service. That is not a trivial change. Orange County is predicting it would have to increase local property taxes 15-20% to cover the burden. Disney is paying about $160 million a year for the benefit of its "own rules" and apparently thinks that's a good deal overall. But if the district goes away, Disney gets to keep that $160 million and the counties will have to pay it instead.
What is going to happen when DeSantis becomes president? Scary. It will be like Putin after 4 years. We all know if DeSantis becomes President that will be the last election we ever have.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
This will hurt Floridians, with zero benefit. And may DeSantis roast on this idiotic spit.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
Do you, as someone on the left I assume, believe it is good that companies be allowed to govern themselves? I have no real opinion on it. But do you honestly believe for profit companies should be allowed to make their own rules?
Disney should announce a significant round of layoffs. They can secretly ship in employees from CA so business proceeds as usual. In a battle between DeSantis and Disney I’m on Disney’s side.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
Do you, as someone on the left I assume, believe it is good that companies be allowed to govern themselves? I have no real opinion on it. But do you honestly believe for profit companies should be allowed to make their own rules?
NP here:
Well, it depends on the track record of the company and the scope of what they want to do. Disney's standards for facilities, maintenance, buildings, minimum wage, etc are HIGHER than what the local governments require of private businesses in their jurisdictions. Disney pays property taxes, sales taxes, and pays for policing to the local governments.
Disney has the special municipal entity for the purposes of SPEED - they can renovate, fix stuff, make improvements much faster than would be the case if they had to get local government sign-off for all this stuff. The current status quo is that Disney goes above and beyond local government standards and requirements and in exchange it doesn't have to deal with much red tape and can get things done FAST. Disney seemingly has a track record of living up to the end of its bargain.
Personally, I feel that if a company acts lawfully and goes beyond what is required, they can enjoy the privilege of a bit less oversight and red tape. Disney doesn't cut corners, doesn't needlessly endanger customers or workers. Responsible companies should be rewarded for being good actors, IMHO.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
Do you, as someone on the left I assume, believe it is good that companies be allowed to govern themselves? I have no real opinion on it. But do you honestly believe for profit companies should be allowed to make their own rules?
PP here. I’m on the left. I’m a strong proponent of property rights and individual rights. I also believe that an individual’s rights stop where another’s begins.
My theories on the proper role of government are completely irrelevant here, because this was a bad faith move to punish Disney because they dared to speak out against DeSantis. This was not a considered decision with full understanding of the potential costs and benefits, but rather a knee jerk reaction intended to rile up the Fox News crowd.
Reminds me of Brexit. DeSantis and the Florida GOP better hope someone comes to their rescue soon. It was a cynical power play and early analysis says this is going to cost Florida taxpayers a lot of money for nothing.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
Do you, as someone on the left I assume, believe it is good that companies be allowed to govern themselves? I have no real opinion on it. But do you honestly believe for profit companies should be allowed to make their own rules?
NP here:
Well, it depends on the track record of the company and the scope of what they want to do. Disney's standards for facilities, maintenance, buildings, minimum wage, etc are HIGHER than what the local governments require of private businesses in their jurisdictions. Disney pays property taxes, sales taxes, and pays for policing to the local governments.
Disney has the special municipal entity for the purposes of SPEED - they can renovate, fix stuff, make improvements much faster than would be the case if they had to get local government sign-off for all this stuff. The current status quo is that Disney goes above and beyond local government standards and requirements and in exchange it doesn't have to deal with much red tape and can get things done FAST. Disney seemingly has a track record of living up to the end of its bargain.
Personally, I feel that if a company acts lawfully and goes beyond what is required, they can enjoy the privilege of a bit less oversight and red tape. Disney doesn't cut corners, doesn't needlessly endanger customers or workers. Responsible companies should be rewarded for being good actors, IMHO.
+1. Big picture, laws and regulations are needed to govern conduct when people and/or entities will not engage in a socially appropriate way without those regulations. Stepping away from Disney at the moment, think about environmental regulations. No one imposes environmental regulations when no one is polluting or harming the environment. They get put into place when, for instance, a manufacturer starts dumping pollution into the local waterway that hurts the community but not the company executives who live well up river of the pollution. In this case, Disney has demonstrated over more than 50 years that they will govern themselves appropriately when it comes to things like building codes and safety services, so there is no problem with allowing them to do it for themselves on a more efficient basis than the local government could. If Disney proved that it could not or would not conduct itself appropriately in those areas, then of course the district should be dissolved and oversight returned to the counties.
But what Disney is being punished for here has nothing to do with its responsibilities for the Reedy Creek improvement district.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
What does any company or individual benefit from being subject to the rules, regulations and services of the community in which they inhabit? Are there any benefits to all being subject to the same system? If not, then why do these systems exist?
I'm not defending this as some massively beneficial OR harmful policy. It is a trivial change other than the counties losing their payoff and Disney losing it's ability to make it's own rules. If you feel companies should be allowed to make their own rules, and that is beneficial for communities, that is certainly true... for some.
I think there is a benefit to average taxpayers of not having the entirety of their government in service to one big corporate resident. Minor zoning changes for an individual homeowner are always going to be second fiddle to whatever Disney has on the agenda. This is going to be especially true once Disney has incentive to promote the election of candidates that are going to prioritize Disney interests and Disney needs over those of the average taxpayer.
I’m not really sure what benefit average Floridians are going to get out of this arrangement. But some are going to feel good and I guess that’s all that matters to the right wing, low information crowd.
Do you, as someone on the left I assume, believe it is good that companies be allowed to govern themselves? I have no real opinion on it. But do you honestly believe for profit companies should be allowed to make their own rules?
NP here:
Well, it depends on the track record of the company and the scope of what they want to do. Disney's standards for facilities, maintenance, buildings, minimum wage, etc are HIGHER than what the local governments require of private businesses in their jurisdictions. Disney pays property taxes, sales taxes, and pays for policing to the local governments.
Disney has the special municipal entity for the purposes of SPEED - they can renovate, fix stuff, make improvements much faster than would be the case if they had to get local government sign-off for all this stuff. The current status quo is that Disney goes above and beyond local government standards and requirements and in exchange it doesn't have to deal with much red tape and can get things done FAST. Disney seemingly has a track record of living up to the end of its bargain.
Personally, I feel that if a company acts lawfully and goes beyond what is required, they can enjoy the privilege of a bit less oversight and red tape. Disney doesn't cut corners, doesn't needlessly endanger customers or workers. Responsible companies should be rewarded for being good actors, IMHO.
+1. Big picture, laws and regulations are needed to govern conduct when people and/or entities will not engage in a socially appropriate way without those regulations. Stepping away from Disney at the moment, think about environmental regulations. No one imposes environmental regulations when no one is polluting or harming the environment. They get put into place when, for instance, a manufacturer starts dumping pollution into the local waterway that hurts the community but not the company executives who live well up river of the pollution. In this case, Disney has demonstrated over more than 50 years that they will govern themselves appropriately when it comes to things like building codes and safety services, so there is no problem with allowing them to do it for themselves on a more efficient basis than the local government could. If Disney proved that it could not or would not conduct itself appropriately in those areas, then of course the district should be dissolved and oversight returned to the counties.
But what Disney is being punished for here has nothing to do with its responsibilities for the Reedy Creek improvement district.
This is it. Everything else is deflection and window dressing. Whether Reedy Creek is a good idea or not, it shouldn’t be decided at gunpoint.
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