Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
The only ones who benefit are the politicians who will claim a win for political retaliation against anyone who questions what they want. This is a lose-lose for the residents of the two counties and Disney.
In addition to claiming the political win, the Republicans in power will also use this to intimidate smaller entities who disagree with their politics. Disney would be negatively impacted if this goes into effect, but it won't. If the Republicans don't back down, Disney and their legion of lawyers will have this law in court for years and will get injunctions to stop the enforcement of this law. Additionally the two counties are currently considering how to respond legally to this law as well and they may end up siding with Disney on trying to overturn the law in the court system. But while this is on-going the Republican politicians are going to use the threat of this to force smaller organizations and companies to toe the line with the Republican party or at a minimum stay out of state politics. Smaller organizations and companies are not going to have the financial resources to contend with the state.
So, this is how this feud is being messaged inside of Florida by the two main candidates trying to get the D nom
Seems like pretty good messaging to me
Yes except He will do a deal with Disney for the new reedy creek district. Get a few concessions. Some for show, some real. And then take credit for removing all of this debt from Orange County voters.
DeSantis is drunk on power. He is not going to negotiate with Disney. He has beaten Disney.
Disney won as soon as this started. He has to do a deal or loses support in Orange County. Money talks. Disney has everyone over a barrel.
I disagree. I own stock and Disney real estate and this action by Disney has trash the value of the stock and the brand. This will be part of a derivative lawsuit. Disney is publicly traded and answers to its shareholders. Disney is losing.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
No argument from me. Just to foot-stomp point above, I do think that many don't understand the impact of this for ALL Florida residents/taxpayers not just those in Orange/Osceola counties. The counties won't be able to manage this and the State (everyone in FL) will have to open up their wallets. IMO, economic/tax etc. experts should start doing some basic number crunching and get those figures out there.
"Money talks, b.s. walks." is a language that everyone understands. When Joe (who makes barely above minimum wage) who lives in a mobile home out in rural Collier County understands that his tax bill is going up X percent, it may give him pause for thought.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
Reedy Creek repeal could mean a huge tax increase for Orange County
Fla. —
Since the state legislature voted to dissolve Disney World's special Reedy Creek District, local officials say the responsibility to maintain and service the nearly 40 square mile area will fall onto Orange County.
"The moment that it dissolves, that money's gone. Just gone. And instead, what happens is all the debts and obligations of Reedy Creek get transferred over to Orange County government," Scott Randolph, Orange County tax collector, said.
It is an over $160,000,000 obligation, which officials say they do not have the money to cover.
"Worst case scenario, Orange County's going to find themselves in a $163 million dollar hole that they've got to fill that they may not even be able to fill with property taxes even if they raised it to the maximum level allowed," Randolph said.
Anonymous wrote:DeSantis hasn't put Disney out of business, nor restricted their speech. Disney's not Constitutionally guaranteed a carve out.
You are utterly delusional. This is law school text book restricted speech via government retaliation. Putting out of business isn't the only ramification in play.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
Lol yes keep sock puppeting till you get answer you like?
I am a different poster. No one has identified a benefit to this yet.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
So, this is how this feud is being messaged inside of Florida by the two main candidates trying to get the D nom
Seems like pretty good messaging to me
Yes except He will do a deal with Disney for the new reedy creek district. Get a few concessions. Some for show, some real. And then take credit for removing all of this debt from Orange County voters.
DeSantis is drunk on power. He is not going to negotiate with Disney. He has beaten Disney.
Disney won as soon as this started. He has to do a deal or loses support in Orange County. Money talks. Disney has everyone over a barrel.
I disagree. I own stock and Disney real estate and this action by Disney has trash the value of the stock and the brand. This will be part of a derivative lawsuit. Disney is publicly traded and answers to its shareholders. Disney is losing.
Nope -- not even close. A few days of bad press. No one at Disney is sweating over this because they have Florida by the balls because of the debt that would fall to Orang County. Just a couple of days bad PR. There are no damages for your suit if this is all worked out.
So, this is how this feud is being messaged inside of Florida by the two main candidates trying to get the D nom
Seems like pretty good messaging to me
Yes except He will do a deal with Disney for the new reedy creek district. Get a few concessions. Some for show, some real. And then take credit for removing all of this debt from Orange County voters.
DeSantis is drunk on power. He is not going to negotiate with Disney. He has beaten Disney.
Disney won as soon as this started. He has to do a deal or loses support in Orange County. Money talks. Disney has everyone over a barrel.
I disagree. I own stock and Disney real estate and this action by Disney has trash the value of the stock and the brand. This will be part of a derivative lawsuit. Disney is publicly traded and answers to its shareholders. Disney is losing.
Nope -- not even close. A few days of bad press. No one at Disney is sweating over this because they have Florida by the balls because of the debt that would fall to Orang County. Just a couple of days bad PR. There are no damages for your suit if this is all worked out.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
DP. What are those benefits? Who specifically do you believe will benefit and how? You wrote a lot of words but have not answered the question. Do you believe Florida taxpayers will beenfit? Will Disney employees benefit? Will the tourism industry benefit? Who?
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
You know there are other businesses with their own special districts, like Reedy Creek. This is something that any business can petition for - most don't want it because the burden of providing government services isn't something they can actually manage, unlike, say, Disney, or The Villages.
Anonymous wrote:This should make everyone afraid, regardless of party affiliation. A company disagrees with a politician on a [insert description here] issue and within weeks has a 50+ year deal revoked. That doesn't scare the crap out of you people???
So now you are ok with big companies getting tax breaks? Everyone was all for taxing them before. Which is it? Companies need to pay their fair share, or the breaks are good?
Just stop it with the "tax breaks". There are no tax breaks. Disney pays more taxes to the state of Florida than any other entity in the state. They are biggest tax revenue for the state, bigger than any other part of the huge tourism industry.
And even if they were getting tax breaks, the law that was just past has nothing to do with taxes. It is about the creation and dissolution of special districts. In this case, a special district was created for the Walt Disney World land unit essentially setting it up like a local township or county. There are no tax breaks involved. Reedy Creek Improvement District allows Disney to manage the properties like a town, they have their own internal security (instead of police), they have fire and emergency services, they run a health clinic which is like a large Urgent Care facility and the medical services are administered by AdventHealth which is the group that maintains many of the hospitals in the greater Orlando region. They handle traffic, roadways, infrastructure, public transit, trash, utilities including water and sewage. Disney covers all of that without taxing any of the county residents or the <100 residents of the RDIC (Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake communities).
Now, if RDIC is dissolved, the two counties, Orange and Osceola will then become responsible for providing all of those services to WDW. The counties are going to have to create a tax structure to tax the corporation for services, then they are going to have to create the infrastructure to start providing all of those services or take over the management of the facilities that WDW already owns and maintains. If they take over the existing facilities, they are going to have to come up with contracts to cover renting and leasing the facilities. And they are going to have to start providing services to the company immediately. Additionally, they are going to have the create the bureaucracy to administer and manage all of the above and permitting, inspection, review of all existing and future construction.
It's been estimated that it will cost about $2200-2800 per county resident in the two counties to cover the costs of assuming all of that infrastructure. Even if they start to tax WDW for the services, with the renting and leasing of Disney facilities, it is still going to cost the residents of the county a lot of money to provide all of the services. They will be lucky if they can create a tax structure that will halve the increased costs to the county residences for Disney. And they are going to need to create all of that and get things in place by summer 2023 (about 15-16 months) before the new law takes effect. These two counties are going to be destroyed and county residents are going to have to put up with a complete breakdown of county services as the country tries to get things under control in time.
As I posted above, this is not going to happen. Disney will be able to get legal injunctions to stop the enforcement of the new law. But if you think this is in any way good for the state, state residents, counties or county residents, you just don't have any idea what just happened. The only ones who will reap any gain from this are politicians who have fleeced their constituents into thinking this was good. Financially this is horrible for the state.
Why would Disney block this? Is it bad for Disney?
Yes. Disney makes decisions on how to handle all of the administration from a purely business/profit standpoint. They provide all those services and they do so at far higher standards that the local counties and state require. This way they give a better experience and continue to keep their standards high. If the administration reverted back to the counties, the counties would do things to cost rather than to the higher standards. The counties already cannot afford to provide services and would not be able to maintain the standards that Disney maintains. Quality would go way down and Disney would have a problem maintaining the experience that has made them the go-to vacation destination in the nation. Additionally, as a special district they can do things to a timetable that they set themselves. If control reverts back to the county, you would add huge layers of bureaucratic red tape to any type of development and infrastructure. Think of it this way. When Disney decides to make renovations to the parks or build new facilities, they get to set the timetable. If you want to add an addition to your house, how much control do you and your contractors have on the timetable? In most construction, the biggest limitations on time are applications, permits, inspections, etc. All government red tape designed to document everything that goes on. Right? Add those costs in and Disney deciding to open a new park or hotel or renovate features and suddenly instead of 2-5 years, it will be 8-10 years to get things done. It would be horrible for their business model if services were dropped to the most costly solutions and if they were forced to have to abide by local bureaucracy to get everything done. And they can't just throw money at a problem. Now, if things aren't moving fast enough, throw money at the problem and resolve issues right away and get back on schedule. Add in government bureaucracy and you're suddenly slowed to a snail's pace and everything is out of your hands and control.
The combination of loss of higher standards and worse, the time added for bureaucratic red tape would be horrific for Disney.
Time for Disney to start looking for a WDW 2.0.
I suggest Georgia.
I would suggest nowhere with a Republican majority.
I live in Florida and I feel like the Republicans here are the dogs who caught the car. What do they think is going to happen now? I have to assume there will be some sort of negotiated compromise that lets Rs tell everyone they've really stuck it to Disney - STUCK IT TO DISNEY - while still allowing Disney to operate as it is, more or less. It is just impossible - completely untenable - for Orange and Osceola Counties to take over the functions Disney is now providing for its own properties. It won't work. And as much as Rs suddenly hate Disney - I still can't believe I am writing those words - Disney is a massive employer, and a HUGE driver of tourism, and what in the actual :OIHNECF LUEH are they playing at here? Not enough to ban math books and punish trans kids anymore - now we're going to destroy tourism and big employers, too?
This is completely untrue. Disney can operate in the same manner as the other parks, many of which have special tax breaks and other benefits but not a complete district. Disney will be fine either way. It doesn’t need this district anymore.
No, they can't operate in the same manner as the other parks - and they certainly can't operate as they have.
I just cannot with you gd idiots. You are so stupid, so short-sighted, so ignorant and determined to burn down everything the second your newest Dear Leader says to light the match.
I don’t care what happens in Florida. But Disney absolutely can operate just fine without their special district. Disney World will be fine no matter the outcome.
DP. I don't think you understand how much Disney relies upon Reedy Creek to operate the way it does. Did you know that the Disney monorail is actually Reedy Creek public transit system? If Reedy Creek disappears, it will be controlled by the localities that take over the former district, and Disney will lose control over its operation. They will no longer be able to staff it with Disney employees and dictate the standards of conduct for employees, it will be all local government employees. Maintenance is a major factor here for the Disney experience. A big part of why service disruptions on the monorail system are so infrequent and brief is that Disney has mechanics and other maintenance workers on site around the clock to do maintenance on the system every night and then immediately respond to any issues that may come up during the day. No other level of government in the U.S. puts a comparable level of resources into maintenance of their mass transit systems to Disney.
Are you going to pay premium Disney prices to stay at a Disney resort and buy tickets to Disney parks if the monorail system functions the way the DC Metro does, constant breakdowns, shutting down entire lines for maintenance for weeks at a time, running limited trains so you might have to wait 20 minutes or more for one to arrive, and service delays that could last hours until can get a maintenance crew there? Of course not. And the same goes for the Skyliner, which would kill the Disney resorts relying on that for easy park access.
Not to mention that every time they want to build a new ride, they are now going to have to have government safety inspectors approving and monitoring the process. Should do wonderers for Disney's impeccable safety record once the same people who approved this operation are in charge of things in Disney.
It'll probably be a seamless process when Disney's quest to innovate is caught up in local red tape. I bet fire and emergency services will be awesome, too, once Disney is stripped of its powers.
Disney will have to play by the same rules as its competitors. (A level playing field. Oh no )
Set aside spite and pettiness for a moment. Who do you think will benefit from this if it goes forward? Not Florida residents - they will get hit with additional tax bills to pay for the Reedy Creek debt and all of the municipal services Reedy Creek currently manages itself. It will reduce employment opportunities in that region of Florida because the surrounding local governments aren't going to staff those functions at the same level Disney does, and probably will pay lower wages. Local businesses will be hurt when tourism declines because Disney becomes a lesser experience, and also from the reduced wages flowing to local residents. Other parks will be hurt as well. You think anyone is going to travel to Florida just to go to Legoland? No, but plenty of people who travel to Florida to go to Disney also add a day trip to see Legoland. Not to mention all of the other tourism-related businesses that will suffer from decreased tourism in the state. This all will lead to reduced state-level taxes, so citizens across the state will lose out when Florida has to make budget cuts as a result.
So who benefits?
Hmm, no one has an answer to this?
What you wrote is nothing but speculation. If you think there are clear benefits for Disney to be relatively and uniquely independent of government interference, I kind of get that perception, but why not everyone else too? Are the local governments near Orlando less effective at hauling trash and running sewage treatment plants than Reedy Creek? Probably, yes, in some cases. Will that kill Disney World in any significant way? No.
The big concern would be zoning restrictions, and development approvals, and Disney not necessarily getting most everything it wants on its land. Yes, that is a risk for Disney. Will it materially harm Disney World? Maybe slightly. But Disney operates successfully with local governments it does not control around the world. I guarantee whatever is worked out, Disney World will continue to be an awesome destination. As someone who's gone there 12 times, and is a big fan, I'm not at all concerned what happens to Reedy Creek... not one bit.
But who benefits? This is going to create turmoil and cost if it goes forward. Even if you dispute the extent of that cost, you cannot deny it will happen. What benefit is there to offset that cost? You keep refusing to answer that question, and I can only assume that’s because you know there is no benefit.
There is a benefit to all that businesses in a community all follow the same rules and regulations, and both contribute to the system, and become beholden to it. Disney World will need to pay their fair share. If this means the tax structure for example needs to change, so be it. Reedy Creek operates at a small loss, but receives direct payments from Disney to provide certain services. Disney could also offer to take some of these burdens on directly, which they can do.
Although the incentives at the beginning were very different, this Reedy Creek thing today is actually kind of a payoff scheme to local jurisdictions. Disney gets to do whatever it wants more or less, and not follow local rules, and the counties get a little bit of extra revenue for which they don't need to provide services. Reedy Creek takes a small loss, and Disney makes direct payments to fund some of these services directly. If you believe companies should be able to get away with whatever they want, then I guess that is a benefit.
So do you think The Villages’ special district should be terminated as well?
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