Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
Anonymous wrote:I'm a NJ educator and I can tell you that the exact 'Social and Sexual Health' standards for grades K-2 are:
* Every individual has unique skills and qualities, which can include the activities they enjoy such as how they may dress, their mannerisms, things they like to do.
* Families shape the way we think about our bodies, our health and our behaviors.
* People have relationships with others in the local community and beyond.
* Communication is the basis for strengthening relationships and resolving conflict between people.
* Conflicts between people occur, and there are effective ways to resolve them.
What was shared in the original post of this thread is a 'sample lesson' - that is a click to an outside source - that nobody is forced to use. Our individual boards of education approve curriculum and individual schools or principals would approve lessons. Because we are big believers in local rule, the values of the community at large are usually well-represented.
Standards for grades 3-5 are:
* All individuals should feel welcome and included regardless of their gender, gender expression, or sexual orientation.
* Family members impact the development of their children physically, socially, and emotionally.
* People in healthy relationships share thoughts and feelings, as well as mutual respect.
The underlying theme is respectful functioning in society. That is not the same as 'leftist brainwashing indoctrination' into any kind of lifestyle.
I wish all the people ranting about this, including my co-teacher, would actually take time to read your post. The sample lessons they're so upset about are those provided by one outside organization, and are not the standards the state has set. One district looked at the resources provided by that organization, but did not adopt that curriculum (perhaps they will, perhaps they won't).
And just to be fully transparent, you've listed the "core ideas," - the health performance expectations for K-2 do include "List medically accurate names for body parts, including the genitals" and "2.1.2.SSH.2: Discuss the range of ways people express their gender and how gender role stereotypes may limit behavior." The 3-5 and 6-8 standards do include more sex education, with the idea that by the time puberty and adolescence hit, kids should be aware of how their bodies function, rather than waiting until they're sexually active to teach them about safe practices.
So let's stop pretending that NJ is trying to confuse children and turn them "trans. Personally, I wasn't aware that it was like catching the cooties - at least the right wing is no longer claiming that gay marriage makes kids gay. The sex education ones are simply preparing kids to understand how their own bodies work (Not quite sure why "penis" is more objectionable than 'pee-pee') and the gender identity ones are about accepting diversity in general.
-another NJ educator
I think the real issue is that people don't want their children to become confused about gender, leading to potentially catastrophic outcomes. In 2011, the Karolinksa Institute released the results of its study on people who underwent sex reassignment surgery, and the results were that they are 19 times more likely to kill themselves. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21364939/
Encouraging children to see any gender nonconforming traits as evidence they are not their natural sex can lead them to decide that they are transgender. And, gender dysphoria is still believed to be a mental illness despite the rebranding of "transgender identity." We still don't have evidence that people with vaginas can actually be male, and the best science that we have indicates that people generally are the gender that their body indicates that they are. This isn't to say that there are not intersex people, but it is to say that declaring something both at reality and a mental illness at the same time is alarming to people, especially when there is s focused effort to teach children that transgenderism is a real, natural phenomenon when the best science says it isn't.
Given that outcomes for the people who pursue this are generally awful- high risk for suicide, inability to experience orgasm, and quite often deep regret-- you really can't blame parents for balking. And you also can't claim that they are putting children at risk when the best science says that YOU are putting children at risk.
All this said, if the parents of NJ want this, go for it. I sincerely hope it works out for you. But please stop criticizing red states for outlawing it.
This is what they are teaching:
* All individuals should feel welcome and included regardless of their gender, gender expression, or sexual orientation
You disagree with this?
I'm the pp you're responding to. It's important to treat all people, regardless of their mental health status, with courtesy, respect, and a welcoming spirit. However, the question is to what extent we need to participate in and validate their belief that sex and gender are social constructs rather than a biological reality. I think we can respect people while disagreeing with them.
But our kids should still learn to “welcome and include” everyone, right? Which is what NJ is teaching.
I think if it were teaching kindness and acceptance, no one would have an issue. The problem is that it is teaching affirmation. There's a different between accepting someone as they are and affirming and validating their perceptions that may not align with reality or their best interests.
So teach kids to only be kind and respect SOME people.
On the contrary. I think the notion that the only way to respect someone is to agree with them is tearing at the fabric of our nation. People should be free to express their views, and people should be accepting of diversity of thought. You are the only one advocating for the concept that we can only respect someone by proactively validating their opinions and agreeing with them-- although I very much doubt this applies when it comes to people with more traditional value systems.
Right. Much better to call them mentally ill and tear down their identity. So “kind and respectful”.
Are you trolling on purpose? Or unintentionally?
Trying to tease out the “kindness and respect” of anti-trans bigots.
They want to teach kids to only be “kind and respectful” to some people.
It's not bigotry. It's literally listed as a mental illness in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. If you read my post upthread, you'll see my discussion of why the fact that science is saying it is a disorder is one of the main issues that stands in the way of people embracing transgenderism as natural and healthy. Additionally, while there is very little solid research on the topic, the research that exists generally does not support embracing the perceived identity as the most healthy path forward.
It’s only diagnosed as “mental illness” if it’s causing distress. If ALL people are treated with kindness and respect then maybe there will be less distress.
Calling every single transgender person “mentally ill” is, at best, ignorant.
Your second sentence is a solid point and I think you'd get no quarrels from the right if the lesson plans focused on respect for all regardless of their gender EXPRESSION. The bit about genitals being unrelated to sex or gender is just a step too far.
That isn’t part of the NJ standards.
I decided to read the text of the standards for myself in order to determine if your reading is correct and that the news is inaccurately reporting it, as it wouldn't be the first time the news has been inaccurate to whip up partisan fury and increase clicks. However, it appears that the standards have been deleted from the NJ website: https://www.nj.gov/education/standards/chp/Docs/2020NJSLS-CHPE_GradeBand_K-2.pdf
If you don't want to click, I'll tell you that it just gives an Error 404 (not found).
After reading these standards, I have no concerns. I don't like the "pink blue purple" lesson plan, but the standards seem to be on point. The standards may in fact be so vague and benign that they would cover most people's definition of age appropriate and normal, as well as far left "pink blue purple" lessons that I would take issue with. Since NJ said that they are reviewing lesson plans to make sure extreme content isn't taught to children, I'm satisfied that this has been brought under control.
Yup. Just fake news to spin up Rs and bigots.
I don't think it's fake news. The NJ governor ordered a review of the teaching materials. It looks like there is a genuine problem, but not with the standards. The issue is how the standards were interpreted and executed. But since the NJ governor seemed to realize this was all over the line, they are working to correct it. But that is not the same thing as "we didn't do it." The left needs to stop pretending that they never advocated for unpopular policies once they fail. It makes you look like you're sneaking around.
Now of course they claim these materials were somehow not the materials that were going to be used, but they were the materials handed out in meetings. The backtracking when caught is so typical. Next step, blame Rs and/or Donald Trump.
Materials were not handed out at the meeting. And they weren’t the materials that were going to be used. Your “news” source is crap.
Per your own linked article, the material was included as sample plans of what would possibly be incorporated into the curriculum. Why do you keep trying to deny that this was seriously considered and probably would have been incorporated into the curriculum had the parents not protested. Why would they include the materials on their website as a proposed curriculum if they didn't intend to use it? Are you purposely being obtuse? The intent was clear and obvious to anyone and the reason the parents were upset. Westfield votes Dem 2/1, and the parents were upset, so it is not a D/R issue, it is doing what is right for the kids, and they are the ones that spoke up. Do you not believe them?
This person is a trans-activist. You will only get double-speak
I’m a “facts activist”. OP’s post was misleading, at best. Question is: is she clueless or was it intentional? My guess is she was just parroting what she heard without fact checking.
OP here.
I stated facts. NJ is teaching gender lessons.
And, I linked to a tweet with a story about an organization providing lessons for teachers.
These are both facts.
OP, again, this person is an activist that shows up all over this board, pushing a narrative. I recognize the style and the screed. There’s no rational debate or discussion to be had with activists - their ‘job’ is to obfuscate fact.
Quite the opposite. I’m calling out the facts.
Again, we can all see how your post was misleading. Not sure why you are denying that.
OP, can you see the manipulation in the PP’s posts? As I said, it’s a game, a ruse.
I literally copied and pasted OP’s own words. How is that manipulation?
Your statements here to others are manipulative. You know it and I know it, and I’m holding you to it. Unfortunately for you, you are speaking to someone who sees through it.
Sees what exactly?
I’m not “manipulating” anything.
Games people play
Not interested in yours. You and I both know you are full of crap.
Whatever. You’re all venom, no substance.
I’m not “manipulating” anything. I literally copied and pasted.
I’m not interested in theory and word play. The video you handed out was a joke - you can’t even recognize it for the propaganda it is, sadly. I truly don’t care how you or others live your lives. Don’t do it on my lawn, I won’t do it on yours, m’kay? But when MY tax dollars are used to push YOUR agenda, it’s a bridge too far, which is why parents are coming for school boards.
The video is just an explanation of the terminology.
Do you live in Westfield, NJ? If not, you don’t get a say in what they do in their schools. Sit TF down.
Public schools take Fed dollars. I sure as heck do
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
You can teach kids to be kind and inclusive without letting them think it’s possible to change their sex and leading them down the primrose path of hormones and surgery and signing up for a lifetime as a medical patient.
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
You can teach kids to be kind and inclusive without letting them think it’s possible to change their sex and leading them down the primrose path of hormones and surgery and signing up for a lifetime as a medical patient.
Anonymous wrote:I'm a NJ educator and I can tell you that the exact 'Social and Sexual Health' standards for grades K-2 are:
* Every individual has unique skills and qualities, which can include the activities they enjoy such as how they may dress, their mannerisms, things they like to do.
* Families shape the way we think about our bodies, our health and our behaviors.
* People have relationships with others in the local community and beyond.
* Communication is the basis for strengthening relationships and resolving conflict between people.
* Conflicts between people occur, and there are effective ways to resolve them.
What was shared in the original post of this thread is a 'sample lesson' - that is a click to an outside source - that nobody is forced to use. Our individual boards of education approve curriculum and individual schools or principals would approve lessons. Because we are big believers in local rule, the values of the community at large are usually well-represented.
Standards for grades 3-5 are:
* All individuals should feel welcome and included regardless of their gender, gender expression, or sexual orientation.
* Family members impact the development of their children physically, socially, and emotionally.
* People in healthy relationships share thoughts and feelings, as well as mutual respect.
The underlying theme is respectful functioning in society. That is not the same as 'leftist brainwashing indoctrination' into any kind of lifestyle.
I wish all the people ranting about this, including my co-teacher, would actually take time to read your post. The sample lessons they're so upset about are those provided by one outside organization, and are not the standards the state has set. One district looked at the resources provided by that organization, but did not adopt that curriculum (perhaps they will, perhaps they won't).
And just to be fully transparent, you've listed the "core ideas," - the health performance expectations for K-2 do include "List medically accurate names for body parts, including the genitals" and "2.1.2.SSH.2: Discuss the range of ways people express their gender and how gender role stereotypes may limit behavior." The 3-5 and 6-8 standards do include more sex education, with the idea that by the time puberty and adolescence hit, kids should be aware of how their bodies function, rather than waiting until they're sexually active to teach them about safe practices.
So let's stop pretending that NJ is trying to confuse children and turn them "trans. Personally, I wasn't aware that it was like catching the cooties - at least the right wing is no longer claiming that gay marriage makes kids gay. The sex education ones are simply preparing kids to understand how their own bodies work (Not quite sure why "penis" is more objectionable than 'pee-pee') and the gender identity ones are about accepting diversity in general.
-another NJ educator
I think the real issue is that people don't want their children to become confused about gender, leading to potentially catastrophic outcomes. In 2011, the Karolinksa Institute released the results of its study on people who underwent sex reassignment surgery, and the results were that they are 19 times more likely to kill themselves. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21364939/
Encouraging children to see any gender nonconforming traits as evidence they are not their natural sex can lead them to decide that they are transgender. And, gender dysphoria is still believed to be a mental illness despite the rebranding of "transgender identity." We still don't have evidence that people with vaginas can actually be male, and the best science that we have indicates that people generally are the gender that their body indicates that they are. This isn't to say that there are not intersex people, but it is to say that declaring something both at reality and a mental illness at the same time is alarming to people, especially when there is s focused effort to teach children that transgenderism is a real, natural phenomenon when the best science says it isn't.
Given that outcomes for the people who pursue this are generally awful- high risk for suicide, inability to experience orgasm, and quite often deep regret-- you really can't blame parents for balking. And you also can't claim that they are putting children at risk when the best science says that YOU are putting children at risk.
All this said, if the parents of NJ want this, go for it. I sincerely hope it works out for you. But please stop criticizing red states for outlawing it.
This is what they are teaching:
* All individuals should feel welcome and included regardless of their gender, gender expression, or sexual orientation
You disagree with this?
I'm the pp you're responding to. It's important to treat all people, regardless of their mental health status, with courtesy, respect, and a welcoming spirit. However, the question is to what extent we need to participate in and validate their belief that sex and gender are social constructs rather than a biological reality. I think we can respect people while disagreeing with them.
But our kids should still learn to “welcome and include” everyone, right? Which is what NJ is teaching.
I think if it were teaching kindness and acceptance, no one would have an issue. The problem is that it is teaching affirmation. There's a different between accepting someone as they are and affirming and validating their perceptions that may not align with reality or their best interests.
So teach kids to only be kind and respect SOME people.
On the contrary. I think the notion that the only way to respect someone is to agree with them is tearing at the fabric of our nation. People should be free to express their views, and people should be accepting of diversity of thought. You are the only one advocating for the concept that we can only respect someone by proactively validating their opinions and agreeing with them-- although I very much doubt this applies when it comes to people with more traditional value systems.
Right. Much better to call them mentally ill and tear down their identity. So “kind and respectful”.
Are you trolling on purpose? Or unintentionally?
Trying to tease out the “kindness and respect” of anti-trans bigots.
They want to teach kids to only be “kind and respectful” to some people.
It's not bigotry. It's literally listed as a mental illness in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. If you read my post upthread, you'll see my discussion of why the fact that science is saying it is a disorder is one of the main issues that stands in the way of people embracing transgenderism as natural and healthy. Additionally, while there is very little solid research on the topic, the research that exists generally does not support embracing the perceived identity as the most healthy path forward.
It’s only diagnosed as “mental illness” if it’s causing distress. If ALL people are treated with kindness and respect then maybe there will be less distress.
Calling every single transgender person “mentally ill” is, at best, ignorant.
Your second sentence is a solid point and I think you'd get no quarrels from the right if the lesson plans focused on respect for all regardless of their gender EXPRESSION. The bit about genitals being unrelated to sex or gender is just a step too far.
That isn’t part of the NJ standards.
I decided to read the text of the standards for myself in order to determine if your reading is correct and that the news is inaccurately reporting it, as it wouldn't be the first time the news has been inaccurate to whip up partisan fury and increase clicks. However, it appears that the standards have been deleted from the NJ website: https://www.nj.gov/education/standards/chp/Docs/2020NJSLS-CHPE_GradeBand_K-2.pdf
If you don't want to click, I'll tell you that it just gives an Error 404 (not found).
After reading these standards, I have no concerns. I don't like the "pink blue purple" lesson plan, but the standards seem to be on point. The standards may in fact be so vague and benign that they would cover most people's definition of age appropriate and normal, as well as far left "pink blue purple" lessons that I would take issue with. Since NJ said that they are reviewing lesson plans to make sure extreme content isn't taught to children, I'm satisfied that this has been brought under control.
Yup. Just fake news to spin up Rs and bigots.
I don't think it's fake news. The NJ governor ordered a review of the teaching materials. It looks like there is a genuine problem, but not with the standards. The issue is how the standards were interpreted and executed. But since the NJ governor seemed to realize this was all over the line, they are working to correct it. But that is not the same thing as "we didn't do it." The left needs to stop pretending that they never advocated for unpopular policies once they fail. It makes you look like you're sneaking around.
Now of course they claim these materials were somehow not the materials that were going to be used, but they were the materials handed out in meetings. The backtracking when caught is so typical. Next step, blame Rs and/or Donald Trump.
Materials were not handed out at the meeting. And they weren’t the materials that were going to be used. Your “news” source is crap.
Per your own linked article, the material was included as sample plans of what would possibly be incorporated into the curriculum. Why do you keep trying to deny that this was seriously considered and probably would have been incorporated into the curriculum had the parents not protested. Why would they include the materials on their website as a proposed curriculum if they didn't intend to use it? Are you purposely being obtuse? The intent was clear and obvious to anyone and the reason the parents were upset. Westfield votes Dem 2/1, and the parents were upset, so it is not a D/R issue, it is doing what is right for the kids, and they are the ones that spoke up. Do you not believe them?
This person is a trans-activist. You will only get double-speak
I’m a “facts activist”. OP’s post was misleading, at best. Question is: is she clueless or was it intentional? My guess is she was just parroting what she heard without fact checking.
OP here.
I stated facts. NJ is teaching gender lessons.
And, I linked to a tweet with a story about an organization providing lessons for teachers.
These are both facts.
OP, again, this person is an activist that shows up all over this board, pushing a narrative. I recognize the style and the screed. There’s no rational debate or discussion to be had with activists - their ‘job’ is to obfuscate fact.
Quite the opposite. I’m calling out the facts.
Again, we can all see how your post was misleading. Not sure why you are denying that.
OP, can you see the manipulation in the PP’s posts? As I said, it’s a game, a ruse.
I literally copied and pasted OP’s own words. How is that manipulation?
Your statements here to others are manipulative. You know it and I know it, and I’m holding you to it. Unfortunately for you, you are speaking to someone who sees through it.
Sees what exactly?
I’m not “manipulating” anything.
Games people play
Not interested in yours. You and I both know you are full of crap.
Whatever. You’re all venom, no substance.
I’m not “manipulating” anything. I literally copied and pasted.
I’m not interested in theory and word play. The video you handed out was a joke - you can’t even recognize it for the propaganda it is, sadly. I truly don’t care how you or others live your lives. Don’t do it on my lawn, I won’t do it on yours, m’kay? But when MY tax dollars are used to push YOUR agenda, it’s a bridge too far, which is why parents are coming for school boards.
The video is just an explanation of the terminology.
Do you live in Westfield, NJ? If not, you don’t get a say in what they do in their schools. Sit TF down.
Public schools take Fed dollars. I sure as heck do
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
LOL. Nice try. As if the only option is to foist a bunch of hocus pocus "theories" about "gender" is the only option for teaching kids to be kind and inclusive. This is degenerate trash pushed by people with evil intentions and should be called out as such.
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
LOL. Nice try. As if the only option is to foist a bunch of hocus pocus "theories" about "gender" is the only option for teaching kids to be kind and inclusive. This is degenerate trash pushed by people with evil intentions and should be called out as such.
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
Show us examples where little kids in early elementary aren't kind and inclusive when it comes to gender. Prove that there WAS an issue before that this is supposed to correct. How many kids in early elementary had gender issues and were bullied somehow because of it?
Anonymous wrote:Transgender people are only 0.06 % of the population.
Thank you, I asked for the stats earlier, I am guessing they aren't coming from the PP that I asked to define the "problem space" here. While I agree that our society as a whole should become more tolerant to LGBTQ issues and embrace trans people, this refers usually to adults and those past puberty, where these issues first become supremely relevant. I am not sure that this problem existed in early elementary school where most kids aren't overly concerned about traditional or non traditional gender roles and definitely shouldn't be concerned about topics like sexuality and various forms of sexual activities. I do have issues with putting an idea into extremely vulnerable little kid's minds that they should start questioning their gender and must think about "picking" gender identity. This isn't about being tolerant towards OTHER ADULTS or sexually active teens, this is about starting to think about THEIR OWN bodies and gender identity and subsequently sexuality at a little earlier age for my comfort. I also notice a trend where non-cis gender options are increasingly considered more interesting and "cool" and desirable for kids who naturally like to explore and conform to their peers.
Anonymous wrote:I'm a NJ educator and I can tell you that the exact 'Social and Sexual Health' standards for grades K-2 are:
* Every individual has unique skills and qualities, which can include the activities they enjoy such as how they may dress, their mannerisms, things they like to do.
* Families shape the way we think about our bodies, our health and our behaviors.
* People have relationships with others in the local community and beyond.
* Communication is the basis for strengthening relationships and resolving conflict between people.
* Conflicts between people occur, and there are effective ways to resolve them.
What was shared in the original post of this thread is a 'sample lesson' - that is a click to an outside source - that nobody is forced to use. Our individual boards of education approve curriculum and individual schools or principals would approve lessons. Because we are big believers in local rule, the values of the community at large are usually well-represented.
Standards for grades 3-5 are:
* All individuals should feel welcome and included regardless of their gender, gender expression, or sexual orientation.
* Family members impact the development of their children physically, socially, and emotionally.
* People in healthy relationships share thoughts and feelings, as well as mutual respect.
The underlying theme is respectful functioning in society. That is not the same as 'leftist brainwashing indoctrination' into any kind of lifestyle.
I wish all the people ranting about this, including my co-teacher, would actually take time to read your post. The sample lessons they're so upset about are those provided by one outside organization, and are not the standards the state has set. One district looked at the resources provided by that organization, but did not adopt that curriculum (perhaps they will, perhaps they won't).
And just to be fully transparent, you've listed the "core ideas," - the health performance expectations for K-2 do include "List medically accurate names for body parts, including the genitals" and "2.1.2.SSH.2: Discuss the range of ways people express their gender and how gender role stereotypes may limit behavior." The 3-5 and 6-8 standards do include more sex education, with the idea that by the time puberty and adolescence hit, kids should be aware of how their bodies function, rather than waiting until they're sexually active to teach them about safe practices.
So let's stop pretending that NJ is trying to confuse children and turn them "trans. Personally, I wasn't aware that it was like catching the cooties - at least the right wing is no longer claiming that gay marriage makes kids gay. The sex education ones are simply preparing kids to understand how their own bodies work (Not quite sure why "penis" is more objectionable than 'pee-pee') and the gender identity ones are about accepting diversity in general.
-another NJ educator
I think the real issue is that people don't want their children to become confused about gender, leading to potentially catastrophic outcomes. In 2011, the Karolinksa Institute released the results of its study on people who underwent sex reassignment surgery, and the results were that they are 19 times more likely to kill themselves. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21364939/
Encouraging children to see any gender nonconforming traits as evidence they are not their natural sex can lead them to decide that they are transgender. And, gender dysphoria is still believed to be a mental illness despite the rebranding of "transgender identity." We still don't have evidence that people with vaginas can actually be male, and the best science that we have indicates that people generally are the gender that their body indicates that they are. This isn't to say that there are not intersex people, but it is to say that declaring something both at reality and a mental illness at the same time is alarming to people, especially when there is s focused effort to teach children that transgenderism is a real, natural phenomenon when the best science says it isn't.
Given that outcomes for the people who pursue this are generally awful- high risk for suicide, inability to experience orgasm, and quite often deep regret-- you really can't blame parents for balking. And you also can't claim that they are putting children at risk when the best science says that YOU are putting children at risk.
All this said, if the parents of NJ want this, go for it. I sincerely hope it works out for you. But please stop criticizing red states for outlawing it.
This is what they are teaching:
* All individuals should feel welcome and included regardless of their gender, gender expression, or sexual orientation
You disagree with this?
I'm the pp you're responding to. It's important to treat all people, regardless of their mental health status, with courtesy, respect, and a welcoming spirit. However, the question is to what extent we need to participate in and validate their belief that sex and gender are social constructs rather than a biological reality. I think we can respect people while disagreeing with them.
But our kids should still learn to “welcome and include” everyone, right? Which is what NJ is teaching.
I think if it were teaching kindness and acceptance, no one would have an issue. The problem is that it is teaching affirmation. There's a different between accepting someone as they are and affirming and validating their perceptions that may not align with reality or their best interests.
So teach kids to only be kind and respect SOME people.
On the contrary. I think the notion that the only way to respect someone is to agree with them is tearing at the fabric of our nation. People should be free to express their views, and people should be accepting of diversity of thought. You are the only one advocating for the concept that we can only respect someone by proactively validating their opinions and agreeing with them-- although I very much doubt this applies when it comes to people with more traditional value systems.
Right. Much better to call them mentally ill and tear down their identity. So “kind and respectful”.
Are you trolling on purpose? Or unintentionally?
Trying to tease out the “kindness and respect” of anti-trans bigots.
They want to teach kids to only be “kind and respectful” to some people.
It's not bigotry. It's literally listed as a mental illness in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. If you read my post upthread, you'll see my discussion of why the fact that science is saying it is a disorder is one of the main issues that stands in the way of people embracing transgenderism as natural and healthy. Additionally, while there is very little solid research on the topic, the research that exists generally does not support embracing the perceived identity as the most healthy path forward.
It’s only diagnosed as “mental illness” if it’s causing distress. If ALL people are treated with kindness and respect then maybe there will be less distress.
Calling every single transgender person “mentally ill” is, at best, ignorant.
Your second sentence is a solid point and I think you'd get no quarrels from the right if the lesson plans focused on respect for all regardless of their gender EXPRESSION. The bit about genitals being unrelated to sex or gender is just a step too far.
That isn’t part of the NJ standards.
I decided to read the text of the standards for myself in order to determine if your reading is correct and that the news is inaccurately reporting it, as it wouldn't be the first time the news has been inaccurate to whip up partisan fury and increase clicks. However, it appears that the standards have been deleted from the NJ website: https://www.nj.gov/education/standards/chp/Docs/2020NJSLS-CHPE_GradeBand_K-2.pdf
If you don't want to click, I'll tell you that it just gives an Error 404 (not found).
After reading these standards, I have no concerns. I don't like the "pink blue purple" lesson plan, but the standards seem to be on point. The standards may in fact be so vague and benign that they would cover most people's definition of age appropriate and normal, as well as far left "pink blue purple" lessons that I would take issue with. Since NJ said that they are reviewing lesson plans to make sure extreme content isn't taught to children, I'm satisfied that this has been brought under control.
Yup. Just fake news to spin up Rs and bigots.
I don't think it's fake news. The NJ governor ordered a review of the teaching materials. It looks like there is a genuine problem, but not with the standards. The issue is how the standards were interpreted and executed. But since the NJ governor seemed to realize this was all over the line, they are working to correct it. But that is not the same thing as "we didn't do it." The left needs to stop pretending that they never advocated for unpopular policies once they fail. It makes you look like you're sneaking around.
Now of course they claim these materials were somehow not the materials that were going to be used, but they were the materials handed out in meetings. The backtracking when caught is so typical. Next step, blame Rs and/or Donald Trump.
Materials were not handed out at the meeting. And they weren’t the materials that were going to be used. Your “news” source is crap.
Per your own linked article, the material was included as sample plans of what would possibly be incorporated into the curriculum. Why do you keep trying to deny that this was seriously considered and probably would have been incorporated into the curriculum had the parents not protested. Why would they include the materials on their website as a proposed curriculum if they didn't intend to use it? Are you purposely being obtuse? The intent was clear and obvious to anyone and the reason the parents were upset. Westfield votes Dem 2/1, and the parents were upset, so it is not a D/R issue, it is doing what is right for the kids, and they are the ones that spoke up. Do you not believe them?
This person is a trans-activist. You will only get double-speak
I’m a “facts activist”. OP’s post was misleading, at best. Question is: is she clueless or was it intentional? My guess is she was just parroting what she heard without fact checking.
OP here.
I stated facts. NJ is teaching gender lessons.
And, I linked to a tweet with a story about an organization providing lessons for teachers.
These are both facts.
OP, again, this person is an activist that shows up all over this board, pushing a narrative. I recognize the style and the screed. There’s no rational debate or discussion to be had with activists - their ‘job’ is to obfuscate fact.
Quite the opposite. I’m calling out the facts.
Again, we can all see how your post was misleading. Not sure why you are denying that.
OP, can you see the manipulation in the PP’s posts? As I said, it’s a game, a ruse.
I literally copied and pasted OP’s own words. How is that manipulation?
Your statements here to others are manipulative. You know it and I know it, and I’m holding you to it. Unfortunately for you, you are speaking to someone who sees through it.
Sees what exactly?
I’m not “manipulating” anything.
Games people play
Not interested in yours. You and I both know you are full of crap.
Whatever. You’re all venom, no substance.
I’m not “manipulating” anything. I literally copied and pasted.
I’m not interested in theory and word play. The video you handed out was a joke - you can’t even recognize it for the propaganda it is, sadly. I truly don’t care how you or others live your lives. Don’t do it on my lawn, I won’t do it on yours, m’kay? But when MY tax dollars are used to push YOUR agenda, it’s a bridge too far, which is why parents are coming for school boards.
The video is just an explanation of the terminology.
Do you live in Westfield, NJ? If not, you don’t get a say in what they do in their schools. Sit TF down.
Public schools take Fed dollars. I sure as heck do
Anonymous wrote:Exactly. We were never lucky enough to have these issues discussed matter of factly in a school. We were on our own. This is progress.
Progress? This is social degeneration and an abuse of authority by a previously trusted social institution. Really, that is a favorite game of the left. Infiltrate an institution that has built up social trust over long periods of time, and then use it to subvert the community and do things nobody wants before people have the time to catch on. Hopefully, it won't work this time.
“Social degeneration”
“Subvert the community”
Teaching kids to be kind and inclusive is not the problem here. You are.
LOL. Nice try. As if the only option is to foist a bunch of hocus pocus "theories" about "gender" is the only option for teaching kids to be kind and inclusive. This is degenerate trash pushed by people with evil intentions and should be called out as such.
Exactly my point too. Was there ever a huge problem with little KIDS not being inclusive to trans and non-binary adults around them? Did this little kid "intolerance" created humongous issues for these adults or older teens? Were these people discriminated, bullied, and denied rights to work, attend college, marry, etc. BY LITTLE KIDS?
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