Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They might be intelligent, but they are attending school in the United States, where English is read, written and spoken in school. They should be able to do their school work in English. If they wanted to exhibit their intelligence in their native language, they should have stayed in their home country. So no, it is highly unlikely that an English language learner can do the work required by test-in magnet programs. If they can, they are by definition not an English language learner.

Thus speaks a Nativist.

We have no Official language in the US. Yes, English is the de facto one, but there's a reason MCPS produces stuff in many languages.

Our conversation is about MCPS magnet programs. They are offered in English. See the many comments above about why the conversation turned to language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL and wish to exclude? Do you understand that's racist?

It could also be argued that students whose parents can afford outside enrichment will be fine regardless of these programs and should be excluded also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL and wish to exclude? Do you understand that's racist?

It could also be argued that students whose parents can afford outside enrichment will be fine regardless of these programs and should be excluded also.

Yeah, the middle PP is basically arguing for abolishing the "gifted" magnet programs altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

This appears to be the big divide right here. Regular people believe the magnets are there to push the county's best kids as far as they can go so those kids can go on to do things like cure Covid, land people on Mars, etc. Progressives believe the magnets are there to save individual children. They want the magnet programs to be an escape for certain poor kids. And that's just nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL and wish to exclude? Do you understand that's racist?

It could also be argued that students whose parents can afford outside enrichment will be fine regardless of these programs and should be excluded also.

I think in your rush to be a white savior, you invented "So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL" because I find no evidence of PP saying or even hinting at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This appears to be the big divide right here. Regular people believe the magnets are there to push the county's best kids as far as they can go so those kids can go on to do things like cure Covid, land people on Mars, etc. Progressives believe the magnets are there to save individual children. They want the magnet programs to be an escape for certain poor kids. And that's just nuts.

No, that's just you.

"The county's best kids," ew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This appears to be the big divide right here. Regular people believe the magnets are there to push the county's best kids as far as they can go so those kids can go on to do things like cure Covid, land people on Mars, etc. Progressives believe the magnets are there to save individual children. They want the magnet programs to be an escape for certain poor kids. And that's just nuts.

No, that's just you.

"The county's best kids," ew.

Ya, they have the self-awareness of a stump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Yes, I agree that the magnet programs should be reserved for the kids who are BOTH intellectually capable AND academically prepared to benefit from the offering. The kids who are learning English should focus on learning English and if they are gifted, they will have plenty of opportunities to have a successful high school record and be recruited by high level colleges. Their now much firmer foundation in English will help them succeed more fully in college as well.

So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL and wish to exclude? Do you understand that's racist?

It could also be argued that students whose parents can afford outside enrichment will be fine regardless of these programs and should be excluded also.

I think in your rush to be a white savior, you invented "So you think all Hispanic children are in ESOL" because I find no evidence of PP saying or even hinting at that.

DP. Really? The question asked was about "Hispanic students." And the PP's answer was all about "kids who are learning English."

[Anonymous]

The Post's Jay Matthews weighs in on magnets:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/gifted-programs-slight-minorities-and-dont-accelerate-kids-why-have-them/2021/09/30/8528d188-2134-11ec-9309-b743b79abc59_story.html

A remarkable dissection of gifted education in Ohio that was just released reveals disturbing gaps in long-term learning for Black and impoverished students who were in the top 20 percent on third-grade tests.

The research done by Michigan State University economist Scott Imberman shows that students in the top 20 percent of those tested while third-graders were much less likely to be identified as gifted, stay among the highest achievers, take the ACT college admission test and attend college if they were Black or low-income students.

“Thousands of early high-achieving children — including smart kids of poor and working-class parents from places like Cincinnati, Dayton, or Mansfield, Ohio — are going adrift as they make their way through middle and high school,” Fordham Institute president Michael J. Petrilli and Ohio research director, Aaron Churchill said in a foreword to the report.

“This not only limits these kids’ opportunities to move up the social ladder, but also threatens the nation’s economic competitiveness and derails our aspirations for a more just society where children from all backgrounds can become inventors, doctors, and business leaders,” the officials said.

Imberman said that only 47 percent of low-income students and 41 percent of Black students in the top 20 percent of those tested in third grade later took ACT tests for college, compared with 71 percent of non-impoverished students in that group. Only 35 percent of low-income students and 26 percent of Black students in that group went to four-year colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

But they should be represented in the magnet programs according to their proportion of the population right?

So you believe that Hispanic students have no place in these programs because many struggle? Do you grasp that there are many who are also gifted and would benefit from these opportunities far more than someone whose parents will ensure they receive outside enrichment and tutors throughout their development. For them these opportunities are likely life changing.

Life changing? If they are not prepared for the experience - soul crushing. I have two kids in the high school magnets.
PP seems to be saying that MCPS should be more focused on helping kids improve their math skills and be prepared for life/high school/magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Post's Jay Matthews weighs in on magnets:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/gifted-programs-slight-minorities-and-dont-accelerate-kids-why-have-them/2021/09/30/8528d188-2134-11ec-9309-b743b79abc59_story.html

A remarkable dissection of gifted education in Ohio that was just released reveals disturbing gaps in long-term learning for Black and impoverished students who were in the top 20 percent on third-grade tests.

The research done by Michigan State University economist Scott Imberman shows that students in the top 20 percent of those tested while third-graders were much less likely to be identified as gifted, stay among the highest achievers, take the ACT college admission test and attend college if they were Black or low-income students.

“Thousands of early high-achieving children — including smart kids of poor and working-class parents from places like Cincinnati, Dayton, or Mansfield, Ohio — are going adrift as they make their way through middle and high school,” Fordham Institute president Michael J. Petrilli and Ohio research director, Aaron Churchill said in a foreword to the report.

“This not only limits these kids’ opportunities to move up the social ladder, but also threatens the nation’s economic competitiveness and derails our aspirations for a more just society where children from all backgrounds can become inventors, doctors, and business leaders,” the officials said.

Imberman said that only 47 percent of low-income students and 41 percent of Black students in the top 20 percent of those tested in third grade later took ACT tests for college, compared with 71 percent of non-impoverished students in that group. Only 35 percent of low-income students and 26 percent of Black students in that group went to four-year colleges.

I really have no idea what exactly is the argument and conclusion in this article. It seems to have some data and ends with a dig on kids and their parents. No real connection between the arguments/data and conclusion. It may very well be that my comprehension skills need help though...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Post's Jay Matthews weighs in on magnets:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/gifted-programs-slight-minorities-and-dont-accelerate-kids-why-have-them/2021/09/30/8528d188-2134-11ec-9309-b743b79abc59_story.html

A remarkable dissection of gifted education in Ohio that was just released reveals disturbing gaps in long-term learning for Black and impoverished students who were in the top 20 percent on third-grade tests.

The research done by Michigan State University economist Scott Imberman shows that students in the top 20 percent of those tested while third-graders were much less likely to be identified as gifted, stay among the highest achievers, take the ACT college admission test and attend college if they were Black or low-income students.

“Thousands of early high-achieving children — including smart kids of poor and working-class parents from places like Cincinnati, Dayton, or Mansfield, Ohio — are going adrift as they make their way through middle and high school,” Fordham Institute president Michael J. Petrilli and Ohio research director, Aaron Churchill said in a foreword to the report.

“This not only limits these kids’ opportunities to move up the social ladder, but also threatens the nation’s economic competitiveness and derails our aspirations for a more just society where children from all backgrounds can become inventors, doctors, and business leaders,” the officials said.

Imberman said that only 47 percent of low-income students and 41 percent of Black students in the top 20 percent of those tested in third grade later took ACT tests for college, compared with 71 percent of non-impoverished students in that group. Only 35 percent of low-income students and 26 percent of Black students in that group went to four-year colleges.

This is worth understanding and rectifying, but this isn’t awesome reporting.
On one hand, he is arguing that kids designated as gifted aren’t getting the “energetic learning” they deserve as they move through the school system, and on the other, is asking why we even have gifted programs when they are so anemic. That’s like asking why people are starving, so why do we even have food aid programs when the logistics make them so ineffective.

Why do so many poorer gifted kids (and one could argue that the top 20% is a pretty lavish gifted designation) not go to college? Well, duh. Laying it all on weak and racist gifted programming seems a bit disingenuous, considering all the other factors involved.

But, yeah, gifted programming that focuses on enrichment but refuses to provide acceleration tends to serve the needs of a bureaucratic system and not the needs of kids who are ready to fly.