Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Our experience in the magnets for the past few years, at middle magnet and regional CES, is that there is a very significant immigrant population attending. Most kids have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant. They have families who value education as a path to stability and prosperity, and most are definitely not affluent.

It depends on how you define "affluent"...

In my west-county/upcounty anecdotal experience, most of the immigrant parents of children in the application magnet programs come from the more affluent parts of society in their countries of origin, have college degrees (either from their country of origin or from the colleges they came to the US to attend), and work in professional jobs in the US.

At least in my book if you can afford to drop $10k on prep classes to ensure your kid gets the scores necessary to appear gifted and access these limited opportunities then you're affluent.

Can we just set the "prepping" issue to the side, please? It's a vague word that does more harm than good and encompasses all sorts of activities, from Russian School of Math to STEM classes to robotics club, to Outschool book clubs.

Wokes can't drop the prepping issue. They have to keep pretending that this is Lake Wobegon and all children are above average and that the only thing keeping our poor minorities is $.

Maybe it's because the privileged class will do anything to cling to their unfair advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

So you're advocating for tracking? Isn't that considered harmful?

I think it is considered most harmful in elementary. By middle school, and when paired with real efforts to identify talented kids who might otherwise not be receiving acceleration, it makes more sense. MCPS actually does a pretty good job of pushing opportunities for talented kids in low-income schools, to be honest. Saturday School programs for "gifted" kids in Focus and Title I schools, ELO programs offer the summer, math and science camps only availalbe to FARMS-eligible kids. I agree with all of those, and think they are great, but the trade-off is that by 6th grade, MCPS needs to stop creating heterogenous classrooms that include both kids who can hardly read in English with kids capable of doing magnet-level work.

I'm really bothered by the racist undertones in many of the posts.
Being an English language learner has no bearing on your intelligence. There are kids who have limited English skills who are perfectly capable of doing magnet level work. There are actually several at Takoma this year.

DP. I don't think its racist. You are right that ESOL has no bearing on intelligence but it is difficult for an English learner to learn at the same rate in an immersion environment. It's just a matter of practicality.

I know you mean well..But it is not true at all. English language learning has nothing to do with doing magnet work. They can work hard and be as good or better than kids who can only speak one language. Most of the parents of the magnet kids are immigrants whose native language isn't English. Stop with the patronizing lotteries please.

What I also find patronizing is this stereotype that magnet kids are all children of immigrants, which is actually quite rare, most are the children of affluent families since these programs are effectively limited to only those who can afford expensive prep.

I think your experience is clouded by living in Takoma Park where most of the magnet kids are US born white kids. Over here in the W schools, most magnets are populated by poor(ish) Asian and Indian immigrants or 1st gen Asian and Indian kids.

So what are the W magnets? I hadn't heard of them before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

So you're advocating for tracking? Isn't that considered harmful?

I think it is considered most harmful in elementary. By middle school, and when paired with real efforts to identify talented kids who might otherwise not be receiving acceleration, it makes more sense. MCPS actually does a pretty good job of pushing opportunities for talented kids in low-income schools, to be honest. Saturday School programs for "gifted" kids in Focus and Title I schools, ELO programs offer the summer, math and science camps only availalbe to FARMS-eligible kids. I agree with all of those, and think they are great, but the trade-off is that by 6th grade, MCPS needs to stop creating heterogenous classrooms that include both kids who can hardly read in English with kids capable of doing magnet-level work.

I'm really bothered by the racist undertones in many of the posts.
Being an English language learner has no bearing on your intelligence. There are kids who have limited English skills who are perfectly capable of doing magnet level work. There are actually several at Takoma this year.

DP. I don't think its racist. You are right that ESOL has no bearing on intelligence but it is difficult for an English learner to learn at the same rate in an immersion environment. It's just a matter of practicality.

I know you mean well..But it is not true at all. English language learning has nothing to do with doing magnet work. They can work hard and be as good or better than kids who can only speak one language. Most of the parents of the magnet kids are immigrants whose native language isn't English. Stop with the patronizing lotteries please.

What I also find patronizing is this stereotype that magnet kids are all children of immigrants, which is actually quite rare, most are the children of affluent families since these programs are effectively limited to only those who can afford expensive prep.

I think your experience is clouded by living in Takoma Park where most of the magnet kids are US born white kids. Over here in the W schools, most magnets are populated by poor(ish) Asian and Indian immigrants or 1st gen Asian and Indian kids.

So what are the W magnets? I hadn't heard of them before.

The poster is confused. There are none. Those kids basically fight tooth and nail to get into the ones in Takoma Park.

[Anonymous]

What I also find patronizing is this stereotype that magnet kids are all children of immigrants, which is actually quite rare, most are the children of affluent families since these programs are effectively limited to only those who can afford expensive prep.

I think your experience is clouded by living in Takoma Park where most of the magnet kids are US born white kids. Over here in the W schools, most magnets are populated by poor(ish) Asian and Indian immigrants or 1st gen Asian and Indian kids.

This doesn't make any sense at all, particularly if we are talking about MS magnets. Even if PP lived in TP/SS, they are still meeting kids from the (affluent) western half of the county, and noting that those kids are at least middle class and predominantly drawn from groups that are high status back in their country of origin, either by caste, political affiliation, or ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Our experience in the magnets for the past few years, at middle magnet and regional CES, is that there is a very significant immigrant population attending. Most kids have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant. They have families who value education as a path to stability and prosperity, and most are definitely not affluent.

It depends on how you define "affluent"...

In my west-county/upcounty anecdotal experience, most of the immigrant parents of children in the application magnet programs come from the more affluent parts of society in their countries of origin, have college degrees (either from their country of origin or from the colleges they came to the US to attend), and work in professional jobs in the US.

At least in my book if you can afford to drop $10k on prep classes to ensure your kid gets the scores necessary to appear gifted and access these limited opportunities then you're affluent.

Can we just set the "prepping" issue to the side, please? It's a vague word that does more harm than good and encompasses all sorts of activities, from Russian School of Math to STEM classes to robotics club, to Outschool book clubs.

Wokes can't drop the prepping issue. They have to keep pretending that this is Lake Wobegon and all children are above average and that the only thing keeping our poor minorities is $.

Maybe it's because the privileged class will do anything to cling to their unfair advantages.

Unfair advantages. You mean like 2-parent households, reading to our kids, and generally just being around?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What I also find patronizing is this stereotype that magnet kids are all children of immigrants, which is actually quite rare, most are the children of affluent families since these programs are effectively limited to only those who can afford expensive prep.

I think your experience is clouded by living in Takoma Park where most of the magnet kids are US born white kids. Over here in the W schools, most magnets are populated by poor(ish) Asian and Indian immigrants or 1st gen Asian and Indian kids.

This doesn't make any sense at all, particularly if we are talking about MS magnets. Even if PP lived in TP/SS, they are still meeting kids from the (affluent) western half of the county, and noting that those kids are at least middle class and predominantly drawn from groups that are high status back in their country of origin, either by caste, political affiliation, or ethnicity.

Sorry. I meant GT/CES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Our experience in the magnets for the past few years, at middle magnet and regional CES, is that there is a very significant immigrant population attending. Most kids have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant. They have families who value education as a path to stability and prosperity, and most are definitely not affluent.

It depends on how you define "affluent"...

In my west-county/upcounty anecdotal experience, most of the immigrant parents of children in the application magnet programs come from the more affluent parts of society in their countries of origin, have college degrees (either from their country of origin or from the colleges they came to the US to attend), and work in professional jobs in the US.

At least in my book if you can afford to drop $10k on prep classes to ensure your kid gets the scores necessary to appear gifted and access these limited opportunities then you're affluent.

Can we just set the "prepping" issue to the side, please? It's a vague word that does more harm than good and encompasses all sorts of activities, from Russian School of Math to STEM classes to robotics club, to Outschool book clubs.

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

[Anonymous]

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

FWIW, I agree with this. I've had two Eastern kids, and neither went to "prep" classes. But both engaged in other activities that absolutely made them stronger candidates. The read-throughs of new scripts at drama class exposed them to new words and to literary analysis, music lessons strengthened the part of their brains that processes math, and "book clubs" with friends made them stronger readers.

They didn't do those activities to prepare for a magnet test - they did them because that's where their hearts were. The fact that it may have made the test easier was just a byproduct of them pursuing their true passions. I don't have any STEM-oriented kids, but I'd imagine the same is true for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Our experience in the magnets for the past few years, at middle magnet and regional CES, is that there is a very significant immigrant population attending. Most kids have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant. They have families who value education as a path to stability and prosperity, and most are definitely not affluent.

It depends on how you define "affluent"...

In my west-county/upcounty anecdotal experience, most of the immigrant parents of children in the application magnet programs come from the more affluent parts of society in their countries of origin, have college degrees (either from their country of origin or from the colleges they came to the US to attend), and work in professional jobs in the US.

At least in my book if you can afford to drop $10k on prep classes to ensure your kid gets the scores necessary to appear gifted and access these limited opportunities then you're affluent.

Can we just set the "prepping" issue to the side, please? It's a vague word that does more harm than good and encompasses all sorts of activities, from Russian School of Math to STEM classes to robotics club, to Outschool book clubs.

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

Actually it's a safe bet that over 50% of those getting in attended the various prep mills. A year or two ago there was the whole Curie scandal in VA when just one of the prep centers posted the last names of 30% of TJ's entering class as their alumni,. This stuff is very common in this area and it's a safe bet if it's going on a few miles from here in VA it goes on here too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

FWIW, I agree with this. I've had two Eastern kids, and neither went to "prep" classes. But both engaged in other activities that absolutely made them stronger candidates. The read-throughs of new scripts at drama class exposed them to new words and to literary analysis, music lessons strengthened the part of their brains that processes math, and "book clubs" with friends made them stronger readers.

They didn't do those activities to prepare for a magnet test - they did them because that's where their hearts were. The fact that it may have made the test easier was just a byproduct of them pursuing their true passions. I don't have any STEM-oriented kids, but I'd imagine the same is true for them.

My kids didn't either but almost every one of their friends at the RMIB did. Some want to deny it for some reason, but I assure you this is very real. These centers are all over the place and their classes are often sold out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Our experience in the magnets for the past few years, at middle magnet and regional CES, is that there is a very significant immigrant population attending. Most kids have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant. They have families who value education as a path to stability and prosperity, and most are definitely not affluent.

It depends on how you define "affluent"...

In my west-county/upcounty anecdotal experience, most of the immigrant parents of children in the application magnet programs come from the more affluent parts of society in their countries of origin, have college degrees (either from their country of origin or from the colleges they came to the US to attend), and work in professional jobs in the US.

At least in my book if you can afford to drop $10k on prep classes to ensure your kid gets the scores necessary to appear gifted and access these limited opportunities then you're affluent.

Can we just set the "prepping" issue to the side, please? It's a vague word that does more harm than good and encompasses all sorts of activities, from Russian School of Math to STEM classes to robotics club, to Outschool book clubs.

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

Actually it's a safe bet that over 50% of those getting in attended the various prep mills. A year or two ago there was the whole Curie scandal in VA when just one of the prep centers posted the last names of 30% of TJ's entering class as their alumni,. This stuff is very common in this area and it's a safe bet if it's going on a few miles from here in VA it goes on here too.

I’d take that bet because there is NO way you are correct! My kid is at TPMS. He also got into Eastern and he certainly didn’t prep and neither did any one else. He also has never had any extra curriculars that would give him a leg up for either magnet, though he was academically precocious. He’s just a normal kid and so is his peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

FWIW, I agree with this. I've had two Eastern kids, and neither went to "prep" classes. But both engaged in other activities that absolutely made them stronger candidates. The read-throughs of new scripts at drama class exposed them to new words and to literary analysis, music lessons strengthened the part of their brains that processes math, and "book clubs" with friends made them stronger readers.

They didn't do those activities to prepare for a magnet test - they did them because that's where their hearts were. The fact that it may have made the test easier was just a byproduct of them pursuing their true passions. I don't have any STEM-oriented kids, but I'd imagine the same is true for them.

My kids didn't either but almost every one of their friends at the RMIB did. Some want to deny it for some reason, but I assure you this is very real. These centers are all over the place and their classes are often sold out.

I understand the issue, but I'm kind of with the PP. One of my kids was very into learning math. Unfortunately, the school was far too slow for them. Initially, they did things on their own and quickly were far beyond even other advanced kids at their grade level. I'm not able to help develop this skill as well as some places like RSM are so my mathy kid started taking classes. They'd do this regardless if it helped them get into some program. They basically just want to learn things that interest them and are bored at school. Alternatively, I could let them be bored for years on end, but don't see that as a good answer either.

[Anonymous]

There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. Our experience in the magnets for the past few years, at middle magnet and regional CES, is that there is a very significant immigrant population attending. Most kids have at least one parent who is a first generation immigrant. They have families who value education as a path to stability and prosperity, and most are definitely not affluent.

It depends on how you define "affluent"...

In my west-county/upcounty anecdotal experience, most of the immigrant parents of children in the application magnet programs come from the more affluent parts of society in their countries of origin, have college degrees (either from their country of origin or from the colleges they came to the US to attend), and work in professional jobs in the US.

At least in my book if you can afford to drop $10k on prep classes to ensure your kid gets the scores necessary to appear gifted and access these limited opportunities then you're affluent.

Can we just set the "prepping" issue to the side, please? It's a vague word that does more harm than good and encompasses all sorts of activities, from Russian School of Math to STEM classes to robotics club, to Outschool book clubs.

+1. I think this person who keeps bringing up prepping has never had a kid in the middle school magnets. I have older kids, so two went through the pre-universal screening process, one went through the universal screening with COGAT, and then the last one went through the lottery.

There is really no way to know how many kids "prepped" for the magnet. My own anecdotal data after having one in TP and two in Eastern is that only first gen immigrant families prep (as in attending weekly prep classes for many months such as APlus) and these folks are really after TP, not Eastern. Not all kids who prep get into the magnets. These parents know this. They see these prep classes as an activity that is time better spent than sports--and, it is a social thing since all their friends are doing it. They are intense, involved parents, but also very nice and willing to share information about study tips, programs, internships, etc.

I never met an American or European family (of any race) who would admit to going to one of the weekly schools to prep, though I'm sure plenty of these families do enrichment too. We prefer to pretend to be shocked and delighted that our kids are "naturally" gifted even though they are most likely receiving enrichment of some sort at home or through various extra-curricular activities (just not something as blatant as APlus).

My own thoughts are that even in the pre-universal screening days, I doubt a majority of the kids prepped at places like APlus. I might believe that a significant portion (15% percent of so) of kids at TP prepped at some sort of specific program (if you showed me actual data), but I don't think a significant portion at Eastern were prepped this way.

Actually it's a safe bet that over 50% of those getting in attended the various prep mills. A year or two ago there was the whole Curie scandal in VA when just one of the prep centers posted the last names of 30% of TJ's entering class as their alumni,. This stuff is very common in this area and it's a safe bet if it's going on a few miles from here in VA it goes on here too.

I’d take that bet because there is NO way you are correct! My kid is at TPMS. He also got into Eastern and he certainly didn’t prep and neither did any one else. He also has never had any extra curriculars that would give him a leg up for either magnet, though he was academically precocious. He’s just a normal kid and so is his peer group.

One of my kid's at TPMS too. Pretty much everyone they know in the 8th grade prepped to get in. We were kind of shocked but it seems to be the norm these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is one person who constantly talks about "prepping".

Let me tell you that "prepping" is not the biggest problem MCPS faces.

The fastest growing populations in MCPS are ESOL and FARMS students.

ESOL and FARMS students are only 11.8% and 12% proficient in middle school math, according to Maryland State Report Card.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

21.9% of AAs and 18.7% of Hispanics are proficient in middle school math, as compared to 70.9% of Asians and 65.4% of Whites.

In other words, 9 out of 10 ESOL and FARMS and 8 out of 10 AA and Hispanic students are not proficient in middle school math.

MCPS should do some serious "prepping" for these kids.

Those are some shocking numbers. Solving for these problems will mean real progress but will take time and prep. We are looking for lazy, tokenist solutions. Malign groups with Goebbel like repetition of talking points. Get some short term results and move on destroy something else.