Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any thoughts on when we’ll learn who got a ride in the BH before it crashed? I’m not even sure we should be using the term VIP. If it wasn’t scandalous, we’d already have an answer.

Good point!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Who was the ATC who left their shift early? Who was the supervisor who let them?

Maybe they had explosive diarrhea. You have no idea the circumstances.

Shouldn't they have a backup?

Have you missed all the coverage everywhere about how understaffed the ENTIRE FAA is, and has been for a long time? Magical "backups" don't just appear, PP. Maybe they should, but they aren't a given like you seem to assume. Not in such an understaffed environment. Keep up with the coverage better. Even the increasingly problematic Post has covered this.

Why’d the supe let the tower go shortstaffed just because some ATC asked to leave early? When I hear such a reckless favor granted I think: 1) idiots 2) unqualified 3) maybe a creepy boss trying to sleep with a female ATC and/or boss easily taken advantage of by female underlings.

Those are your first thoughts?? Flu and norovirus are rampant in the DC area. That was MY first thought: they weren’t feeling well.

If the ATC was allowed to leave early for a legit health crisis we would have already learned of it. It was almost certainly a frivolous reason.

Or it could be they were working their 15th straight day with a 10 hour shift. That's happening because of the shortages. No one can work well under the conditions they are expected to work.

Especially when getting abusive emails telling them they suck and should resign and take a “dream vacation.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the second ATC who left early (because of staff shortages) would have been more specific re where the plane was. Some pilots say absolutely should be been more specific in that air space. Anyone know what is actually required?

How much more specific could they have been? I’m sure the helicopter team would’ve been offended by being talked down to as if they didn’t know what they were doing. That happens all the time across all career paths. Additional instruction is taken as an insult to your abilities.

True. There have been plane crashes because a subordinate didn’t want to be “disrespectful” of a boss.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There needs to be deep look into qualifications of pilots. How is it that a pilot with only 450 hours flying and a couple yrs out of flight school gets tasked with flying around high profile government officials and is flying around DC air? This isn’t even enough experience to be hired as a commercial pilot.
Major airlines require 1500 hrs

No. There doesn’t. It’s the best training in the world for pilots. Pilots are still, however, human.

500 hours is not a rookie. Training and check flights are an ongoing process throughout careers. Every time you come back to flying after having a non flying job or from a professional school or change planes, you go through requal. And what she was doing is gaining hours which is also part of the regular training. The military is ALWAYS training. That’s literally their everyday job.

450 hrs is about 2 yrs out of flight school. That isn’t exactly highly experienced

Pilots get sent to war right out of flight school

True, but we don’t have a choice then. Pilots getting assigned VIP transportation in DC and flying special mission here in this air space should be the most experienced, not right from flight school.

So Navy Seals should be helo Uber drivers for Trump people?

Make that make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the second ATC who left early (because of staff shortages) would have been more specific re where the plane was. Some pilots say absolutely should be been more specific in that air space. Anyone know what is actually required?

How much more specific could they have been? I’m sure the helicopter team would’ve been offended by being talked down to as if they didn’t know what they were doing. That happens all the time across all career paths. Additional instruction is taken as an insult to your abilities.

Agree, not casting any blame, but appears the helo crew was quick to respond both times along the lines of "yeah yeah we got it, visual sep pls, thank you".

Some kind of a malfunction, maybe the altimeter will likely be the proximal cause.
We need to invest in finding ways to fail safely.

If you look on Reddit aviation, someone called this situation the most common ‘lie’ in flying. That a pilot is typically focused on their instruments and just reflexively says ‘plane in view’ or whatever and then gives themselves a second to adjust their view and get the object in site. I guess this time it didn’t work.

If the ATC had been more specific, it might have helped. If the airport wasn’t so busy, it might have helped. And most of all, clearly the rules about helo flying under heavy jet traffic with only visual separation has to be re thought. Hopefully the rules will change. This was an accident waiting to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the second ATC who left early (because of staff shortages) would have been more specific re where the plane was. Some pilots say absolutely should be been more specific in that air space. Anyone know what is actually required?

How much more specific could they have been? I’m sure the helicopter team would’ve been offended by being talked down to as if they didn’t know what they were doing. That happens all the time across all career paths. Additional instruction is taken as an insult to your abilities.

True. There have been plane crashes because a subordinate didn’t want to be “disrespectful” of a boss.

This is ATC. they’re not anyone’s boss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There needs to be deep look into qualifications of pilots. How is it that a pilot with only 450 hours flying and a couple yrs out of flight school gets tasked with flying around high profile government officials and is flying around DC air? This isn’t even enough experience to be hired as a commercial pilot.
Major airlines require 1500 hrs

No. There doesn’t. It’s the best training in the world for pilots. Pilots are still, however, human.

500 hours is not a rookie. Training and check flights are an ongoing process throughout careers. Every time you come back to flying after having a non flying job or from a professional school or change planes, you go through requal. And what she was doing is gaining hours which is also part of the regular training. The military is ALWAYS training. That’s literally their everyday job.

450 hrs is about 2 yrs out of flight school. That isn’t exactly highly experienced

Pilots get sent to war right out of flight school

True, but we don’t have a choice then. Pilots getting assigned VIP transportation in DC and flying special mission here in this air space should be the most experienced, not right from flight school.

So Navy Seals should be helo Uber drivers for Trump people?

Make that make sense.

Agree. Huh? Silly. It’s a helo taxi service.

[Anonymous]

More important than all the stupid bickering, they've recovered everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More important than all the stupid bickering, they've recovered everyone.

Excellent. Tragic but great recovery work in Feb weather Potomac River .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Who was the ATC who left their shift early? Who was the supervisor who let them?

Maybe they had explosive diarrhea. You have no idea the circumstances.

Shouldn't they have a backup?

Have you missed all the coverage everywhere about how understaffed the ENTIRE FAA is, and has been for a long time? Magical "backups" don't just appear, PP. Maybe they should, but they aren't a given like you seem to assume. Not in such an understaffed environment. Keep up with the coverage better. Even the increasingly problematic Post has covered this.

This. It sounds like many of you people either never read the news or never travel. We recently flew into and out of Newark on our way out of the country and the flights had to circle for HOURS because they couldn't land all the planes they had up there safely with so few ATCs.

That is strange as those planes should never have taken off if it was known about congestion during landing time. Perhaps weather happened? I am doubting the pilot announced there was not enough ATC.

Agree. When weather shuts an airport for 1-3 hours all the landings delay and he. Pile up, thus holding patterns. aTC headcount doesn’t matter.c you can only land a plane every minute on a run way or every couple minutes if also doing take offs on same runway

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

LOL at your trying to pretend like the current administration gives a crap about national security. They are selling all our secrets to the highest bidder.

Sorry but the administration has nothing to do with a Blackhawk flying at the wrong altitude and position over the river, near an airport.

We see you changing the topic because you know you’re wrong.

Lol

Does some loon here think the helo was off course and off altitude b/c of the Trump administration?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who was the ATC who left their shift early? Who was the supervisor who let them?

Maybe they had explosive diarrhea. You have no idea the circumstances.

Shouldn't they have a backup?

They'd just received an email asking them to resign. They are already understaffed. But maybe you can ask the Peter Thiel boy toys helping Elon Musk break into the government computer systems.

They have access to classified info already, so maybe the 19 yo who goes by "bigballs" can help you or maybe Luke Farritor can let you know why they didn't have backup.

After all, they are in charge at OPM now!

ATC is not allowed to resign. They aren't part of that deal that's being offered.

As someone else pointed out, they received an email suggesting they resign.

This crash is Trump’s fault.

The crash was not due to an ATC staffing issue (which has been short for YEARS). We already know several of the multiple errors that have led to the crash, and none of them are a problem with ATC. But you know that..

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but: An ATC in the DCA tower was handling both plane and helicopter traffic, earlier in the evening than was standard practice, apparently because another controller left work early. The two types of aircraft were supposed to be handled by separate ATCs until 9:30 p.m. But on that night, a solo ATC was handling both about an hour earlier than normal. This is according to reporting in the Post and many other outlets.

No one is saying yet whether this change caused or even affected the crash at all; that is for the investigators to decide. But it is foolish and extremely premature of you to insist at this time that ATC staffing and/or actions had nothing to do with events that night.

They handled the one helicopter that hour and the normal 8-9pm plane landings just fine.

The Blackhawk had the issues, investigation will uncover what the issues were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who was the ATC who left their shift early? Who was the supervisor who let them?

Maybe they had explosive diarrhea. You have no idea the circumstances.

Shouldn't they have a backup?

They'd just received an email asking them to resign. They are already understaffed. But maybe you can ask the Peter Thiel boy toys helping Elon Musk break into the government computer systems.

They have access to classified info already, so maybe the 19 yo who goes by "bigballs" can help you or maybe Luke Farritor can let you know why they didn't have backup.

After all, they are in charge at OPM now!

ATC is not allowed to resign. They aren't part of that deal that's being offered.

As someone else pointed out, they received an email suggesting they resign.

This crash is Trump’s fault.

The crash was not due to an ATC staffing issue (which has been short for YEARS). We already know several of the multiple errors that have led to the crash, and none of them are a problem with ATC. But you know that..

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but: An ATC in the DCA tower was handling both plane and helicopter traffic, earlier in the evening than was standard practice, apparently because another controller left work early. The two types of aircraft were supposed to be handled by separate ATCs until 9:30 p.m. But on that night, a solo ATC was handling both about an hour earlier than normal. This is according to reporting in the Post and many other outlets.

No one is saying yet whether this change caused or even affected the crash at all; that is for the investigators to decide. But it is foolish and extremely premature of you to insist at this time that ATC staffing and/or actions had nothing to do with events that night.

It can be done by two, but combining the roles to one person is also within the current safety standards of FAA. No safety protocols were broken

Protocol aside, you think it is ok for just one person to man the entire DCA airspace?
Would you want that job?
Would you want to be on a plane or helo with just one ATC directing 5 different aircraft simultaneously?

Dude one ATC can safely queue up 100s of planes an hour. Have you been to an airport before? Check out LHR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm starting to think most of the fault lies with FAA approving the helicopter flight path. Only 100 feet of vertical clearance with a landing plane is insane (and this is with everyone following directions exactly). And I didn't realize until I watched an expert video just how many blind spots there are on the BH and the fact that helicopters fly slightly tilted down, so that inhibits pilots ability to see upwards. This was really a disaster waiting to happen.

True, nose down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There needs to be deep look into qualifications of pilots. How is it that a pilot with only 450 hours flying and a couple yrs out of flight school gets tasked with flying around high profile government officials and is flying around DC air? This isn’t even enough experience to be hired as a commercial pilot.
Major airlines require 1500 hrs

No. There doesn’t. It’s the best training in the world for pilots. Pilots are still, however, human.

500 hours is not a rookie. Training and check flights are an ongoing process throughout careers. Every time you come back to flying after having a non flying job or from a professional school or change planes, you go through requal. And what she was doing is gaining hours which is also part of the regular training. The military is ALWAYS training. That’s literally their everyday job.

Agree.

500 hours in a non combat time military jet or helo is solid.

They aren’t doing transatlantic or bicoastal commercial jet hours, which are 90% gps driving the aircraft.

Can’t compare hours like that, commercial v militarize

The only way my sibling got a big boost was flying and relocating an f-16 from Osan AFB Korea to Florida or something with multiple refuelings in the air and a stop in Guam and LA area.

Usually you’re up and down in 30-60 mins for training.