Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s all so strange to me that that the highest ranking person on board was not the most experienced, nor the doing the evaluating. The Army is effed up.

The military rank structure probably seems odd to someone who is not familiar with it.

I thought most educated people know what an rotc or a service academy grad comes in at.
Oh well.

Most people don’t understand what a warrant officer is.

It’s weird that she outranks him and he must evaluate her, no?

It is shocking how many Americans know so little about the military. There was a time when most adults had either served in the military themselves or had close family or friends who had served. But today, most adults haven’t served and might not even know anyone who has served.

And, yes, the rank of warrant officer can be confusing, but once someone explained it to me when I was in my twenties, I understood it. I wasn’t even in the military myself, but had a good friend who was serving at the time.

This thread really illustrates how little adults in our society understand about the basics of how the military services operate.

How on earth would non military understand this? It’s convoluted.

It is, somewhat. But there was a time when people had been in the military, or their parent or sibling or spouse or even good friend had been, so there was a level of knowledge about how the military worked. So even non-military had some knowledge of how the military operated, and they at least knew the names of the different rates/ranks. That no longer exists, so we get a lot of adults making comments about people and situations where they don’t have even a basic grasp of the context- but that doesn’t stop them from opining.

This happens with everything. You think Trump and his supporters knows what the people do who they are firing?

I don't need to know about the military to understand that helicopters shouldn't be around national unless they are simulating something specifically relative to maneuvering around an airport or around DC in an emergency.

In which case, they failed miserably.

[Anonymous]

Any idea when we will hear anything preliminary from the flight recorders?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s all so strange to me that that the highest ranking person on board was not the most experienced, nor the doing the evaluating. The Army is effed up.

The military rank structure probably seems odd to someone who is not familiar with it.

I thought most educated people know what an rotc or a service academy grad comes in at.
Oh well.

Most people don’t understand what a warrant officer is.

It’s weird that she outranks him and he must evaluate her, no?

It is shocking how many Americans know so little about the military. There was a time when most adults had either served in the military themselves or had close family or friends who had served. But today, most adults haven’t served and might not even know anyone who has served.

And, yes, the rank of warrant officer can be confusing, but once someone explained it to me when I was in my twenties, I understood it. I wasn’t even in the military myself, but had a good friend who was serving at the time.

This thread really illustrates how little adults in our society understand about the basics of how the military services operate.

How on earth would non military understand this? It’s convoluted.

It is, somewhat. But there was a time when people had been in the military, or their parent or sibling or spouse or even good friend had been, so there was a level of knowledge about how the military worked. So even non-military had some knowledge of how the military operated, and they at least knew the names of the different rates/ranks. That no longer exists, so we get a lot of adults making comments about people and situations where they don’t have even a basic grasp of the context- but that doesn’t stop them from opining.

This happens with everything. You think Trump and his supporters knows what the people do who they are firing?

I don't need to know about the military to understand that helicopters shouldn't be around national unless they are simulating something specifically relative to maneuvering around an airport or around DC in an emergency.

There are posters on this thread insisting that there were "three qualified pilots" on board, and that the crew chief is responsible for the pilot's error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Yes, I am pretty sure it is just one person. No one else cares as it isn't relevant at all to the crash. You and only you are obsessed with names. It is just a broken record about nothing. I could ask 20 times on every page but what colour was the paint on the bottom of the plane. But I don't. Repeatedly asking pointless questions like a broken record just makes the thread boring and breaks up the productive discussions and comments from people with critical thinking.

DP here. I haven’t posted as often but there are definitely at least two of us who think a VIP drop off was involved. It’s not a pointless question to me. That is subjective.

Can you explain how you think the name of the VIP who was dropped off is essential to understanding this crash. Thousand of VIP are picked up and dropped off each year but you think there was some great conspiracy with this VIP that caused the plane to crash and if you obsessively and repeatedly ask about their name over and over and over and over and over and over and over, then it is going to give you answers as to what happened?

NP here. I would like to know bc if initially it was a VIP drop off, then it would have been the reason the BH was flying in the first place and we wouldn’t even be discussing this because the BH wouldn’t have been where it was when the AA jet was trying to land.

How can it not be relevant? The BH was doing a training exercise possibly to make use of the travel coming back after dropping off a VIP. Just like avoiding naming the third solider in the BH, delaying answering this question IMO makes the situation worse.

My understanding, I think from CNN reporting this morning, is that the family asked for her name to be held back because she was a woman and they feared her being blamed and vilified as an unqualified DEI hire.

CNN said the family stated things the reasons they withheld the name: blah blah z

Or CNN said the family withheld the name for awhile, “we at cnn think it’s because X, y or z.”

Big difference.

OpED garbage needs to get out of journalism reporting on tv and online/print. Back to its own opinion section, the plebes can’t distinguish between fact and opinion. They’ve been dumbed down too much, on both sides.

No one disclosed WHY the family wanted more time. People are just making things up, and if CNN speculated on air or online, that's them speculating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a local who regularly flies in and out of DCA, I’m furious they were conducting a training exercise at night in the busy airspace of DCA. They killed a bunch of local kids in the process. So yeah, we want the whole picture. The “why” behind the location and timing of this training exercise is a directly relevant question. If it turns out it was an inappropriate VIP taxi ride and there was otherwise no legitimate military purpose for conducting “training” at this time/place, it compounds the culpability of the Army in the death of all these civilians. Anyone who tells you otherwise has an agenda to either protect the military or the privacy of the individual(s) who got a BH taxi ride that night. (The last time I posted was probably dozens if not 100 pages ago, so just stop with the “it’s just one poster” nonsense).

Exactly.

+1. It is completely relevant. And only made more so by the secrecy. PR fail for sure. Would have been much better just to say the BH “was returning to Belvoir after dropping off Senator Blah blah. He/she is horrified by the tragedy.”

Would be old news now.

How about: BH needed training hours, anyone want a pick up from Andrews AFB to Langley, we leave at 7pm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

False equivalence. None of that needs to be disclosed to say who was on the flight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

It is not a matter of national security to know who WAS on a BH flight a couple of days ago. Unless the truth is so embarrassing that faith in our leaders crumbles (even more).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so disappointed that no one is discussing the need to reduce the traffic at DCA. The airport was never meant to have 25 million passengers flying in and out every minute every day with military helicopters crossing the airspace constantly. Unless they move pentagon and the white house and the hundreds and thousands of VIPs away, you will never be able to get rid of the helicopter flights. The restrictions on the nearby airspace won't be changed either. They need to reduce the traffic at DCA by at least half, and get dedicated ATCs for both commercial flights and helicopters. If there weren't a line of planes waiting to land, the helicopter could have held its position and wait for an opening to cross safely - no need for these altitude rules with razor thin margin of error. And THAT should be the solution, NOT to bend to the selfish wishes of some politicians who want 20 minutes less of commute to the airport.

People are talking about this. It was the first thing everyone brought up. Right now it is not front and center because everything airport/commercial airline-wise seems to have gone according to plan. I agree that this question should be addressed, though.

I totally disagree about the helo traffic, though. That needs to be reassessed : who uses them? how often? why? and which routes? I am betting all of these can be adjusted. I can't imagine why ANYONE except maybe president and vice president need to travel by helicopter ever. Bad for the environment, bad for taxpayers, and it turns out a huge safety issue. Stop the helicopters and sit in traffic on the phone or on your laptop like everyone else.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

Who are you people & why are you so against disclosing the VIP's name?

[Anonymous]

I also think the people saying that the heavy volume of traffic at DCA is irrelevant are absolutely off their rocker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a local who regularly flies in and out of DCA, I’m furious they were conducting a training exercise at night in the busy airspace of DCA. They killed a bunch of local kids in the process. So yeah, we want the whole picture. The “why” behind the location and timing of this training exercise is a directly relevant question. If it turns out it was an inappropriate VIP taxi ride and there was otherwise no legitimate military purpose for conducting “training” at this time/place, it compounds the culpability of the Army in the death of all these civilians. Anyone who tells you otherwise has an agenda to either protect the military or the privacy of the individual(s) who got a BH taxi ride that night. (The last time I posted was probably dozens if not 100 pages ago, so just stop with the “it’s just one poster” nonsense).

Exactly.

+1. It is completely relevant. And only made more so by the secrecy. PR fail for sure. Would have been much better just to say the BH “was returning to Belvoir after dropping off Senator Blah blah. He/she is horrified by the tragedy.”

Would be old news now.

How about: BH needed training hours, anyone want a pick up from Andrews AFB to Langley, we leave at 7pm?

This is at least a plausible scenario, but something tells me if it happened like this we would at least have already hear whispers to that effect. More likely that it was an unnecessary VIP trip and the return route became a training mission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think the people saying that the heavy volume of traffic at DCA is irrelevant are absolutely off their rocker.

No one with a functioning brain could be saying that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't go back reading 200 pages. What is the VIP thing? They dropped one off at National? Were supposed to pick one up at National? Taking one somewhere and there are 4 on the Blackhawk? Or what? Thanks.

The Black Hawk helicopter turned on it's transponder just outside of Langley. It's home location is Ft. Belvoir in Alexandria. It was never going to DCA. It dropped someone at Langley and then was returning to Belvoir along the Helo route that passes DCA.

Wait if there was a VIP, they can’t be bothered to travel by car from Alexandria to Langley?? That’s like 20 minutes. This is what our country is using these black hawks for? Unreal.

Well we don't know where the person was picked up. Only that they were dropped at Langley. The soldiers were based at Belvoir. But yes this is absolutely what DC area Black Hawks are used for.

Right, that's why people are saying the whole day of the helicopter and who was in it, where did it go, was relevant. The BH could have left Ft Belvoir, flown to the WH, picked someone up, and ferried them to Langley. All we know for 100% certain is that it left Langley (and the ONLY reason for this kind of flight to do that would be a VIP drop off) and was headed back to Ft Belvoir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

LOL at your trying to pretend like the current administration gives a crap about national security. They are selling all our secrets to the highest bidder.