Blake Lively- Jason Baldoni and NYT - False Light claims

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

But Blake is a middle aged billionaire. It's not the same thing as being young, it's just not. I worked in a field that is infamous for sexual assault and harassment. I was sexually harassed all the time and twice I had to literally fight a man off me. So I'm not naive about how bad things can be. But I'm Blake's age now, and I'm a lot harder to sexually harass. I still deal with inappropriate stuff (my boss always calls me beautiful, it's probably harmless but I'm over it). But the kind of pervasive sexual harassment Blake describes usually only occurs in a setting with a power differential. And in Blake's case, she was the powerful one. I think she's just full of crap and using this to get her way. Women can be evil, too.

Yes, back to square one where it’s Blake and Ryan working as a tag team taking down JB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

[Anonymous]

‘It is an amalgamation of contradictions’, as Blake Lively has said. Nothing in the filming of this movie is supposed to make sense. The actresses felt sexually harassed and yet sexually free, autonomous yet tethered to a man, claiming authorship but then being just an actress and standing on a pink sticker, stylish and also bag lady chic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

But Blake is a middle aged billionaire. It's not the same thing as being young, it's just not. I worked in a field that is infamous for sexual assault and harassment. I was sexually harassed all the time and twice I had to literally fight a man off me. So I'm not naive about how bad things can be. But I'm Blake's age now, and I'm a lot harder to sexually harass. I still deal with inappropriate stuff (my boss always calls me beautiful, it's probably harmless but I'm over it). But the kind of pervasive sexual harassment Blake describes usually only occurs in a setting with a power differential. And in Blake's case, she was the powerful one. I think she's just full of crap and using this to get her way. Women can be evil, too.

PP here. We're talking about Isabel Ferrer, who was in her early 20s and it was her first movie. There's an unsubstantiated rumor floating around that she filed an HR complaint that alleged some pretty bad behavior by Baldoni, and people are talking about whether that's plausible given that after she finished filming she sent Baldoni and effusive and highly complimentary text thanking him for the experience.

I'm not speaking to Lively's situation which is different than what I experienced. I'm simply stating that based on my experience as a young and low status worker who was sexually assaulted and harassed at work, I find it totally plausible that she would send a text like that anyway.

PP, I’m really sorry you experienced this. And thank you very much for explaining this in this thread. I totally understand what you’re saying. And I’ve also been saying in this thread that it is ABSOLUTELY common for victims of harassment and abuse to later make positive and even effusive comments about their harasser/abuser, so as not to raise flags, to keep things running as normal while they were still dealing with things in their head, and so as not to provoke retaliation by the harasser/abuser. Again, this is an observed phenomenon, it’s not unusual.

I’m sorry that the Baldoni supporters are treating you like some sort of anomaly or like your experience can’t possibly relate to Ferrer (if this is a real complaint). They are dug in. I’m sorry.

I’m not sure these are real allegations from Ferrer, but if they are I am not going to be persuaded that some happy post-production text that she sent about Baldoni means she wasn’t harassed. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

Make sure you brush your teeth because you are constantly throwing up in your mouth. Really not good for them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

The thing is JB is not in a position of power over Blake or Ryan. It’s the opposite, a contradiction of sorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

The thing is JB is not in a position of power over Blake or Ryan. It’s the opposite, a contradiction of sorts.

The male in the position of power is Ryan Reynolds and we even have a female in a position of power here in BlaKe Lively!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

The thing is JB is not in a position of power over Blake or Ryan. It’s the opposite, a contradiction of sorts.

This allegation isn’t about Blake or Ryan. It about Ferrer, and this was her first movie. I can certainly understand why she would make very positive comments about the director even if she had a bad experience with him. Some of you don’t seem to have the emotional intelligence or understanding of Hollywood to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

But Blake is a middle aged billionaire. It's not the same thing as being young, it's just not. I worked in a field that is infamous for sexual assault and harassment. I was sexually harassed all the time and twice I had to literally fight a man off me. So I'm not naive about how bad things can be. But I'm Blake's age now, and I'm a lot harder to sexually harass. I still deal with inappropriate stuff (my boss always calls me beautiful, it's probably harmless but I'm over it). But the kind of pervasive sexual harassment Blake describes usually only occurs in a setting with a power differential. And in Blake's case, she was the powerful one. I think she's just full of crap and using this to get her way. Women can be evil, too.

PP here. We're talking about Isabel Ferrer, who was in her early 20s and it was her first movie. There's an unsubstantiated rumor floating around that she filed an HR complaint that alleged some pretty bad behavior by Baldoni, and people are talking about whether that's plausible given that after she finished filming she sent Baldoni and effusive and highly complimentary text thanking him for the experience.

I'm not speaking to Lively's situation which is different than what I experienced. I'm simply stating that based on my experience as a young and low status worker who was sexually assaulted and harassed at work, I find it totally plausible that she would send a text like that anyway.

PP, I’m really sorry you experienced this. And thank you very much for explaining this in this thread. I totally understand what you’re saying. And I’ve also been saying in this thread that it is ABSOLUTELY common for victims of harassment and abuse to later make positive and even effusive comments about their harasser/abuser, so as not to raise flags, to keep things running as normal while they were still dealing with things in their head, and so as not to provoke retaliation by the harasser/abuser. Again, this is an observed phenomenon, it’s not unusual.

I’m sorry that the Baldoni supporters are treating you like some sort of anomaly or like your experience can’t possibly relate to Ferrer (if this is a real complaint). They are dug in. I’m sorry.

I’m not sure these are real allegations from Ferrer, but if they are I am not going to be persuaded that some happy post-production text that she sent about Baldoni means she wasn’t harassed. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I’m sorry, too. This is an extremely serious topic, and Blake Lively who got graped in the neck on camera with and without audio (depends on who you ask! And uh what footage got submitted publicly) is -exactly- like PP. I am so gratified that you are so so so sorry. I am quite pleased that all claims matter, even ones that seem improbable as F based on a whole bunch of footage that showed Blake is dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

The thing is JB is not in a position of power over Blake or Ryan. It’s the opposite, a contradiction of sorts.

This allegation isn’t about Blake or Ryan. It about Ferrer, and this was her first movie. I can certainly understand why she would make very positive comments about the director even if she had a bad experience with him. Some of you don’t seem to have the emotional intelligence or understanding of Hollywood to do so.

Oh so we’ve moved on now to Ferrer vs. Baldoni?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if Freedman gets to cross Ferrar after those texts she sent JB.

This is a gross thing to say. What if the allegation here is true? Are you still gleeful at the idea of someone with Freedman's personality throwing Ferrar's texts in her face? As another poster pointed out, it's totally reasonable that someone in Ferrar's position would send a text like that even if she was treated very poorly on set because it was her first movie an her was the director and she would be scared to be viewed as a complainer or "hard to work with" so early in her career.

What’s the verified allegation? Stop getting hysterical.

Who's hysterical? If it's a real complaint, she should be treated respectfully and allowed to tell her story. If it's a fake complaint, she's not involved at all and won't testify. It's weird to think the complaint might be real but then to be thrilled by the prospect of her being dismantled on the stand by an aggressive attorney.

It’s called the art of cross examination.

Oh I know what it is. I think it's weird to be excited about it. We're not talking about a murderer or someone who extorted money or abused their family. We're talking about a young woman who may have felt very uncomfortable with her director's behavior towards her while filming a sex scene. It's weird to be excited about someone like that being subject to "the art of cross examination." This isn't someone who did anything wrong. There's no lie for her to be caught in. You're just excited about a lawyer known for being brash and kind of mean having a chance to go after her. That's weird.

I have respect for other attorneys that are masters at what they do.

She shouldn’t have written a gushing email after filming wrapped praising what a great director JB was and about how safe she felt if it wasn’t true. She’s an adult. She’s not some little girl.

If she did, does that mean that it's okay if Baldoni harassed her? Because she didn't do the perfect thing later? So even if he harassed her, she should be dragged over the coals for her subsequent text while he gets off with nothing?

You are only held accountable for sexual harassment if your victim makes zero mistakes after it happens, is that it?

The point is not that it makes it okay for Baldoni to have harassed her. The point is that it makes her CLAIM less credible.
If she wanted her claim ti be credible/believed by others, sending a glowingly complimentary text gushing to your harasser about how safe he made you feel during the entire filming experience does not help to underscire your claim. In fact, it negates it or at the very least, introduces confusion about whether or not it actually occurred.
Because the natural reaction of most people who have been harassed is NOT to voluntarily send an effusively glowing text to their abuser out of the blue.
It’s one thing to keep the peace and not make waves. It’s another thing entirely for her to go out of her way to thank him specifically for the environment and safe space he created since that would completely negate her prior(?) claim.

I was sexually harassed and assaulted at work. The person was a direct supervisor and very powerful within my organization. I was young and at a very low level at the company -- one of the lowest paid people there. I know I said effusive things to that supervisor, multiple times, while working there, even after the incident where they assaulted me. Some might even have been in writing.

The thing was -- that's how everyone spoke there, especially to this supervisor. It was the culture. You said effusively complimentary things about everyone but especially people in management. This particular supervisor was incredibly insecure and when they didn't feel "supported," they could be vindictive and vicious. It was how you protected yourself. It's how you got through the day, deflected unwanted attention or criticism, etc.

If I was treated the same way now, I would speak up immediately and I wouldn't compliment that person. I'd report it to HR. I'd quit. Back then, I didn't feel like I had the right. I doubted myself. I thought things like "maybe I'm overreacting" or "maybe this is what it's like everywhere, and I need to toughen up." I didn't understand my rights. I was also really insecure and I just wanted people to like me.

I’m sorry you had this experience, PP.
And it doesn’t negate what happened to you.
But I’m sure you can objectively understand that anyone’s participation (even for a completely defensible reason) in heaping compliments upon an individual would muddy the waters of credibility regarding which of your unsolicited opinions of said person were truthful and which were not.
Surely you understand that a jury (or anyone who didn’t witness the events of the claim) must consider all of your statements about the person, and it is not reasonable for them to believe both. And you agree, because you’re basically saying no one should believe the complements you gave to that person. They should only believe your claim of abuse.

And this makes sense. Life is messy.
But surely you can see where it would be much easier if the only statements or unsolicited opinions you had made on record regarding this person‘s character were negative. ?
The fact remains that in order to believe the harassment claim, you have to disbelieve the compliments are genuine. And in order to believe the compliments are genuine, you have to disbelieve the harassment claim.
Both cannot be credible and true opinions, and that complicates matters for a jury.

Throwing up in my mouth a little. Seems like you’re having trouble processing why women would feel it necessary to reassure a male in a position of power over them that they were not going to make waves for them.

The thing is JB is not in a position of power over Blake or Ryan. It’s the opposite, a contradiction of sorts.

This allegation isn’t about Blake or Ryan. It about Ferrer, and this was her first movie. I can certainly understand why she would make very positive comments about the director even if she had a bad experience with him. Some of you don’t seem to have the emotional intelligence or understanding of Hollywood to do so.

I can see what Isabel would make up a story now to please the powerful BL and RR due to promises from them to further her career.

[Anonymous]

Can we start a new thread on Ferrer vs. Baldoni? We’ve moved on from Lively vs. Baldoni, too many contradictions to make sense.

[Anonymous]

Everyone is totally arguing different things.

In this current debate, the person “not in power” is the actress who played young Lily.

The premise is that if Baldoni grabbed her thighs and made her act out a fake orgasm because it was sooo hot (I’m sorry this sounds so unbelievable) she might still feel compelled to say nice things about him after the fact. (Although, if she reported the event to HR, that seems less likely).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we start a new thread on Ferrer vs. Baldoni? We’ve moved on from Lively vs. Baldoni, too many contradictions to make sense.

Please don't do that. Besides which they aren't even confirmed allegations at this point.