Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

finance + selling stock in an IPO

"Upper Middle Class" isn't a thing. It's a story affluent working people tell to themselves and their children. Having $5m in the bank (particularly if you also own an expensive home, etc) means you're not any level of middle class. You may not feel that way because you're usually looking up and not down, and because your nest egg isn't so big that you can stop working (given current lifestyle) or guarantee the same level of success for your children, but it's true. Figure out how to describe yourself to yourself without leaning on the words "middle class" because doing so contributes to generations of little assholes who think they've bootstrapped themselves into life as a debt-free college grad because they were "upper middle class."

Also the classiest thing imo is a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest, preferably in an accessory building.

Holy crap, my in-laws have a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest. She helps care for their horses, she was a professional equestrian at one time on the national team.

The destitute, socially-prominent houseguest is a real thing???? I’ve never heard of that.

PP with the inlaws who have one...AMA. She is from a prominent family with money, hence being able to afford becoming a professional equestrian in her teens and twenties. But I think she doesn't have the best relationship with her own family, hence becoming destitute and moving in with my in laws.

That is kind of your inlaws. Are they UC people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

finance + selling stock in an IPO

"Upper Middle Class" isn't a thing. It's a story affluent working people tell to themselves and their children. Having $5m in the bank (particularly if you also own an expensive home, etc) means you're not any level of middle class. You may not feel that way because you're usually looking up and not down, and because your nest egg isn't so big that you can stop working (given current lifestyle) or guarantee the same level of success for your children, but it's true. Figure out how to describe yourself to yourself without leaning on the words "middle class" because doing so contributes to generations of little assholes who think they've bootstrapped themselves into life as a debt-free college grad because they were "upper middle class."

Also the classiest thing imo is a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest, preferably in an accessory building.

Holy crap, my in-laws have a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest. She helps care for their horses, she was a professional equestrian at one time on the national team.

The destitute, socially-prominent houseguest is a real thing???? I’ve never heard of that.

PP with the inlaws who have one...AMA. She is from a prominent family with money, hence being able to afford becoming a professional equestrian in her teens and twenties. But I think she doesn't have the best relationship with her own family, hence becoming destitute and moving in with my in laws.

That is kind of your inlaws. Are they UC people?

Eh, I mean, they fit a lot of the WASP stereotypes described here--they're of English stock, in the US for generations, show dogs and horses, have a vacation home on the water, but are frugal and drive older American cars and wear LL Bean and eat boring food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

finance + selling stock in an IPO

"Upper Middle Class" isn't a thing. It's a story affluent working people tell to themselves and their children. Having $5m in the bank (particularly if you also own an expensive home, etc) means you're not any level of middle class. You may not feel that way because you're usually looking up and not down, and because your nest egg isn't so big that you can stop working (given current lifestyle) or guarantee the same level of success for your children, but it's true. Figure out how to describe yourself to yourself without leaning on the words "middle class" because doing so contributes to generations of little assholes who think they've bootstrapped themselves into life as a debt-free college grad because they were "upper middle class."

Also the classiest thing imo is a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest, preferably in an accessory building.

Holy crap, my in-laws have a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest. She helps care for their horses, she was a professional equestrian at one time on the national team.

The destitute, socially-prominent houseguest is a real thing???? I’ve never heard of that.

PP with the inlaws who have one...AMA. She is from a prominent family with money, hence being able to afford becoming a professional equestrian in her teens and twenties. But I think she doesn't have the best relationship with her own family, hence becoming destitute and moving in with my in laws.

That is kind of your inlaws. Are they UC people?

Eh, I mean, they fit a lot of the WASP stereotypes described here--they're of English stock, in the US for generations, show dogs and horses, have a vacation home on the water, but are frugal and drive older American cars and wear LL Bean and eat boring food.

Income-wise, they don't have tech or wall street type money. But they're comfortably retired and can afford travel/second home, their dogs and horses, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

finance + selling stock in an IPO

"Upper Middle Class" isn't a thing. It's a story affluent working people tell to themselves and their children. Having $5m in the bank (particularly if you also own an expensive home, etc) means you're not any level of middle class. You may not feel that way because you're usually looking up and not down, and because your nest egg isn't so big that you can stop working (given current lifestyle) or guarantee the same level of success for your children, but it's true. Figure out how to describe yourself to yourself without leaning on the words "middle class" because doing so contributes to generations of little assholes who think they've bootstrapped themselves into life as a debt-free college grad because they were "upper middle class."

Also the classiest thing imo is a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest, preferably in an accessory building.

Actually, UMC is a thing that’s been documented by sociologists like Paul Fussell and many, many others. It’s a mindset about choices (education and a piano vs. a new car) and values. The mindset can be free of asset amounts. If you don’t want to raise little assholes, banning the words “UMC” won’t help, just don’t talk about your money and make them get jobs in high school, etc....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

finance + selling stock in an IPO

"Upper Middle Class" isn't a thing. It's a story affluent working people tell to themselves and their children. Having $5m in the bank (particularly if you also own an expensive home, etc) means you're not any level of middle class. You may not feel that way because you're usually looking up and not down, and because your nest egg isn't so big that you can stop working (given current lifestyle) or guarantee the same level of success for your children, but it's true. Figure out how to describe yourself to yourself without leaning on the words "middle class" because doing so contributes to generations of little assholes who think they've bootstrapped themselves into life as a debt-free college grad because they were "upper middle class."

Also the classiest thing imo is a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest, preferably in an accessory building.

Holy crap, my in-laws have a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest. She helps care for their horses, she was a professional equestrian at one time on the national team.

The destitute, socially-prominent houseguest is a real thing???? I’ve never heard of that.

PP with the inlaws who have one...AMA. She is from a prominent family with money, hence being able to afford becoming a professional equestrian in her teens and twenties. But I think she doesn't have the best relationship with her own family, hence becoming destitute and moving in with my in laws.

That is kind of your inlaws. Are they UC people?

Eh, I mean, they fit a lot of the WASP stereotypes described here--they're of English stock, in the US for generations, show dogs and horses, have a vacation home on the water, but are frugal and drive older American cars and wear LL Bean and eat boring food.

Income-wise, they don't have tech or wall street type money. But they're comfortably retired and can afford travel/second home, their dogs and horses, etc.

Your in-laws fit my personal stereotype of old money/UC people. The old, modest cars and LL Bean clothes especially. Mayflower families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

You do need big, drooly dogs of the kind your family has had for generations when they used to hunt, but you don’t hunt yourself. This works because you have lots of land on the country. Breeding show dogs, pffft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Poster.

I have to say, I don't get people's attraction to Old Money WASP culture. It sounds so...stuffy and stingy! I feel like saying, "live a little people!" There's lots of fun out there to be had if you are willing to spend a little money.

I suppose you would say we are "nouveau riche" and I like it! It's fun to splurge when you can! I don't want to live like a miser when I don't have to. Luxury cars, luxury vacations, eating out at nice restaurants all the time, sign me up! (of course we still save so don't @ me)

Old Money WASP culture is derived from Puritan culture. Puritanism, as the old saying goes, is the fear that somewhere, someone is having fun.

We don't just love our dogs, we have to put them in stuffy dog shows with a lot of standing around waiting. And there's usually a lot of bland food and washing aluminum foil to re-use (even though the food is served on good china with a very traditional pattern, nothing modern) at family dinners.

Old money WASPs get their fun in other ways—it isn’t all about self-denial. Great travel, walking the dog (it isn’t about dog shows), entertaining and offering great food (they hire caterers) on their inherited and actually pretty attractive china, together with decent wine. Conversation is a very important skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

You do need big, drooly dogs of the kind your family has had for generations when they used to hunt, but you don’t hunt yourself. This works because you have lots of land on the country. Breeding show dogs, pffft.

I'm the one whose in laws took in a socially-prominent-but-destitute person.

My in laws have many acres and have always had big, drooly hunting dogs of a specific breed or two.

I live in a little townhouse but we have paintings of a couple of their former dogs hanging in our house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

finance + selling stock in an IPO

"Upper Middle Class" isn't a thing. It's a story affluent working people tell to themselves and their children. Having $5m in the bank (particularly if you also own an expensive home, etc) means you're not any level of middle class. You may not feel that way because you're usually looking up and not down, and because your nest egg isn't so big that you can stop working (given current lifestyle) or guarantee the same level of success for your children, but it's true. Figure out how to describe yourself to yourself without leaning on the words "middle class" because doing so contributes to generations of little assholes who think they've bootstrapped themselves into life as a debt-free college grad because they were "upper middle class."

Also the classiest thing imo is a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest, preferably in an accessory building.

Holy crap, my in-laws have a destitute but socially prominent long-term houseguest. She helps care for their horses, she was a professional equestrian at one time on the national team.

The destitute, socially-prominent houseguest is a real thing???? I’ve never heard of that.

PP with the inlaws who have one...AMA. She is from a prominent family with money, hence being able to afford becoming a professional equestrian in her teens and twenties. But I think she doesn't have the best relationship with her own family, hence becoming destitute and moving in with my in laws.

That is kind of your inlaws. Are they UC people?

Eh, I mean, they fit a lot of the WASP stereotypes described here--they're of English stock, in the US for generations, show dogs and horses, have a vacation home on the water, but are frugal and drive older American cars and wear LL Bean and eat boring food.

Income-wise, they don't have tech or wall street type money. But they're comfortably retired and can afford travel/second home, their dogs and horses, etc.

Your in-laws fit my personal stereotype of old money/UC people. The old, modest cars and LL Bean clothes especially. Mayflower families.

They really like to drive Chevrolets, and drive them into the ground. They also have had a Subaru and liked it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

I think horses are a somewhat regional thing. Some older parts of this country have a strong horse/riding heritage, other equally old parts less so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.