Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We don't really care in this context because that is not what this discussion is about. Here, again, is a description of the thread topic:

You are categorically dead wrong. Title of this thread reads: AAP: "Bad news for test prep parents". Therefore, the distinction between an ability and an aptitude test may be pertinent to the issue of test prep.

We get it. You are obviously enamored with yourself hence the repeated self-reference.

Thread Topic: AAP: "Bad News for Test Prep Parents"

and if you read the OP, the author was trying to convince people that FCPS is now asking who has seen the test, the implication apparently being that they are seeing who has been naughty and nice. And maybe taking names? And maybe acting accordingly?

[Anonymous]

Right, and here's what FCPS says about this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

[Anonymous]

FCPS knows that these scores are less reliable for kids who have studied old versions of the test. That is why they changed to a different version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like it could be just another data point to keep in mind. It would be interesting when the scores come back to know who had seen the questions before and might be helpful in evaluating what the scores mean.

If I were a researcher in this field, I think it would be interesting to do a study comparing test scores and GBRS scores of kids who had prepped for the test and then see a similar comparison of the scores of kids who take the test without test prep. A study like that would be useful to the school district in deciding whether these scores are reliable in identifying which kids need which programs.

I would like to see the results of this study, just out of interest. I don't think the school district would use the results in the identification process, but it may be useful in making future decisions about the process and whether changes should be made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have never hired a tutor for my child. There are tutors in FCPS, but I think it is a minority of people that do that.

Is this true for SAT and ACT prep services for your children in preparation for College. You forgot to answer my question -- you artful dodger cuty pie.

And I am not equating prep for the SAT, which is largely vocabulary for college-bound HS students to a general test given to 7 year olds that is to measure intelligence. SAT is supposed to measure the likelyhood of success in college. CogAT measures the inate ability of a 7 yo. Different things, different strategies.

But then, I must be privaliged, as I am multigenerational american. And worse, I am Jewish. So I do not have to work, nor does my kid. Things are handed to me.

Source please. The CogAt is to measure intelligence? I thought one couldn't prep for an intelligence test; if so, what's the big problem with letting people waste their time prepping?

The CogAt is not an intelligence test. It's simply a test of reasoning ability. Kids who score high on the CogAt are not necessarily any smarter than those who don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have never hired a tutor for my child. There are tutors in FCPS, but I think it is a minority of people that do that.

Is this true for SAT and ACT prep services for your children in preparation for College. You forgot to answer my question -- you artful dodger cuty pie.

And I am not equating prep for the SAT, which is largely vocabulary for college-bound HS students to a general test given to 7 year olds that is to measure intelligence. SAT is supposed to measure the likelyhood of success in college. CogAT measures the inate ability of a 7 yo. Different things, different strategies.

But then, I must be privaliged, as I am multigenerational american. And worse, I am Jewish. So I do not have to work, nor does my kid. Things are handed to me.

Source please. The CogAt is to measure intelligence? I thought one couldn't prep for an intelligence test; if so, what's the big problem with letting people waste their time prepping?

fine, but some poster keeps saying it is supposed to measure intelligence, raw intelligence etc.
The CogAt is not an intelligence test. It's simply a test of reasoning ability. Kids who score high on the CogAt are not necessarily any smarter than those who don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have never hired a tutor for my child. There are tutors in FCPS, but I think it is a minority of people that do that.

Is this true for SAT and ACT prep services for your children in preparation for College. You forgot to answer my question -- you artful dodger cuty pie.

And I am not equating prep for the SAT, which is largely vocabulary for college-bound HS students to a general test given to 7 year olds that is to measure intelligence. SAT is supposed to measure the likelyhood of success in college. CogAT measures the inate ability of a 7 yo. Different things, different strategies.

But then, I must be privaliged, as I am multigenerational american. And worse, I am Jewish. So I do not have to work, nor does my kid. Things are handed to me.

Source please. The CogAt is to measure intelligence? I thought one couldn't prep for an intelligence test; if so, what's the big problem with letting people waste their time prepping?

fine, but some poster keeps saying it is supposed to measure intelligence, raw intelligence etc.
The CogAt is not an intelligence test. It's simply a test of reasoning ability. Kids who score high on the CogAt are not necessarily any smarter than those who don't.

The CogAT is not an Intelligence test. But FCPS is using as a proxy for intelligence, as they have no better measure that is affordable. The CogAT scores should scale with intelligence, but also be impacted by other factors, such as prep. That is why fcps does not want prep: it makes the CogAT less reliable in measuring Intelligence.

(I am the poster that said it is being used as an intelligence test).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have never hired a tutor for my child. There are tutors in FCPS, but I think it is a minority of people that do that.

Is this true for SAT and ACT prep services for your children in preparation for College. You forgot to answer my question -- you artful dodger cuty pie.

And I am not equating prep for the SAT, which is largely vocabulary for college-bound HS students to a general test given to 7 year olds that is to measure intelligence. SAT is supposed to measure the likelyhood of success in college. CogAT measures the inate ability of a 7 yo. Different things, different strategies.

But then, I must be privaliged, as I am multigenerational american. And worse, I am Jewish. So I do not have to work, nor does my kid. Things are handed to me.

Source please. The CogAt is to measure intelligence? I thought one couldn't prep for an intelligence test; if so, what's the big problem with letting people waste their time prepping?

fine, but some poster keeps saying it is supposed to measure intelligence, raw intelligence etc.
The CogAt is not an intelligence test. It's simply a test of reasoning ability. Kids who score high on the CogAt are not necessarily any smarter than those who don't.

The CogAT is not an Intelligence test. But FCPS is using as a proxy for intelligence, as they have no better measure that is affordable. The CogAT scores should scale with intelligence, but also be impacted by other factors, such as prep. That is why fcps does not want prep: it makes the CogAT less reliable in measuring Intelligence.

(I am the poster that said it is being used as an intelligence test).

so you're saying that someone can prep for an intelligence test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
so you're saying that someone can prep for an intelligence test?

I am saying that it is possible to increase the number of correct answers on an intelligence test. But it does not increase the intelligence; rather, it indicates that the tests are not perfect. A test like the CogAT/FxAT is easier to prepare for than an individually administered test like the WISC, but any test/measurement can be skewed. Just like I can make most quartz watches run slow by placing them in the freezer. Or I can make my car's MPG go up by driving slower. It is possible to bias any measurement.

This is why prepping for the CogAT is looked upon so negatively: The county wants the Intelligence from the CogAT. What they get is a measure of problem solving and test prep. Problem solving is probably related to intelligence, as well as other factors (e.g., distractions, sleep the night before, blood sugar, and Prepping). If you prep, the county may assume you to be smarter than you are, but that does not actually make you smarted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have never hired a tutor for my child. There are tutors in FCPS, but I think it is a minority of people that do that.

Is this true for SAT and ACT prep services for your children in preparation for College. You forgot to answer my question -- you artful dodger cuty pie.

And I am not equating prep for the SAT, which is largely vocabulary for college-bound HS students to a general test given to 7 year olds that is to measure intelligence. SAT is supposed to measure the likelyhood of success in college. CogAT measures the inate ability of a 7 yo. Different things, different strategies.

But then, I must be privaliged, as I am multigenerational american. And worse, I am Jewish. So I do not have to work, nor does my kid. Things are handed to me.

Source please. The CogAt is to measure intelligence? I thought one couldn't prep for an intelligence test; if so, what's the big problem with letting people waste their time prepping?

fine, but some poster keeps saying it is supposed to measure intelligence, raw intelligence etc.
The CogAt is not an intelligence test. It's simply a test of reasoning ability. Kids who score high on the CogAt are not necessarily any smarter than those who don't.

The CogAT is not an Intelligence test. But FCPS is using as a proxy for intelligence, as they have no better measure that is affordable. The CogAT scores should scale with intelligence, but also be impacted by other factors, such as prep. That is why fcps does not want prep: it makes the CogAT less reliable in measuring Intelligence.

(I am the poster that said it is being used as an intelligence test).

so you're saying that someone can prep for an intelligence test?

Real IQ tests are individually administered. They interact, ask questions and observe the person taking the test. The people giving it are well trained in spotting kids that have been prepped. The CogAT is a group test, no individual attention is given and thus is MUCH easier to prep for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And I don't know of kids around here with private sports coaches. The kids I know play on a high school or community league teams and have one or a few coaches for the entire team. Middle schools don't have sports here, so that age group plays on community leagues that their parents pay for, but I would not consider that private, one-on-one coaching. Many of those coaches are parent volunteers.

Dance and gymnastics are through independent studios or gyms, where kids are part of a class or a team. I see a lot of kids with private teachers for their musical instruments, but I believe that is pretty standard for music lessons.

Our hockey, baseball, swimming, and Taekwondo teams all offer private lessons. Where do you live? Not around Reston that's for sure....

[Anonymous]

Real IQ tests are individually administered. They interact, ask questions and observe the person taking the test. The people giving it are well trained in spotting kids that have been prepped. The CogAT is a group test, no individual attention is given and thus is MUCH easier to prep for.

The definition of a subjective and biased evaluation (observer and test bias)

[Anonymous]

Our hockey, baseball, swimming, and Taekwondo teams all offer private lessons. Where do you live? Not around Reston that's for sure....

Oh, don't worry about the ole goat. A space cadet in outer space who has surfed these boards for a decade.

[Anonymous]

so you're saying that someone can prep for an intelligence test?

No one can prep for an intelligence, IQ or aptitude test. Intelligence is fixed. You can't have more than your parents gave you. It's like fat and obesity. Fixed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

so you're saying that someone can prep for an intelligence test?

No one can prep for an intelligence, IQ or aptitude test. Intelligence is fixed. You can't have more than your parents gave you. It's like fat and obesity. Fixed.

well then the CogAt can't be an intelligence test then. So what's all the brouhaha about?