Over 280 University of California STEM faculty members have signed an open letter calling on the UC Board of Regents to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT is such an overrated measure, as in, the expectation that every school have like a 1500+ average SAT. Here's some historical averages from 2012 of various schools:
Amherst College 1320-1530
California Institute of Technology 1460-1590
Columbia University, Columbia College 1400-1570
Dartmouth College 1350-1560
Georgetown University 1290-1490
Harvard University 1390-1590
Johns Hopkins University 1310-1510
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 1410-1570
Stanford University 1360-1550
University of California, Berkeley 1250-1510
University of California, Los Angeles 1170-1430
Williams College. 1310-1530

The SAT was scored harder then. I’m not sure where your 1600 scale scores are from but it wasn’t a proportional concordance. A 2300 SAT then is a 1560 now , a 2160 was the start of 1500, and a 1980 was the start of a 1400. Most elite schools had test quartiles from 20XX-23XX, and medians of late 21XX to mid 22XX (corresponding to 1500-1530 today). So not much has changed.

The test was even harder before that when it used to be on the 1600 scale. A 1350 was competitive for every top school.

This is their data source: https://eduplan.us/reality-check-sat-range-25th-75th-percentile-for-enrolled-students-at-various-selective-universities-and-colleges-nationwide/

A 1500 is closer to a 2230-2280 according to the various concordance tables online. Nonetheless, the obvious here is that the SAT scores are MUCH smaller than they are now. For some of these schools, you're essentially suggesting a 200 point gap in the difficulty between tests, which is...well not justifiable.

[Anonymous]

Those are not accurate conversions. There are inaccurate tables floating around. Here’s the one from Collegeboard directly: https://www.texasffa.org/docs/SAT%20Comparison%20Chart%20on%202400-1600%20Scale_68721.pdf

[Anonymous]

If you can’t score 700 on the watered down SAT you don’t belong in a STEM program at a 4 year university. It is as simple as that. Score lower start out at community college and prove you can do the work.

Math isn’t racist and everyone can do basic math, but let’s face it not everyone develops the necessary abstract thinking skills for the higher level math required for STEM degrees and STEM jobs.

Problem solved, but there will still be a few exceptions where students start out fine but can’t make it through weed out courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can’t score 700 on the watered down SAT you don’t belong in a STEM program at a 4 year university. It is as simple as that. Score lower start out at community college and prove you can do the work.

Math isn’t racist and everyone can do basic math, but let’s face it not everyone develops the necessary abstract thinking skills for the higher level math required for STEM degrees and STEM jobs.

Problem solved, but there will still be a few exceptions where students start out fine but can’t make it through weed out courses.

How are there STEM Majors at most colleges then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those are not accurate conversions. There are inaccurate tables floating around. Here’s the one from Collegeboard directly: https://www.texasffa.org/docs/SAT%20Comparison%20Chart%20on%202400-1600%20Scale_68721.pdf

You’re cherry picking. That’s 1 exam’s concordance table. You can find 10 others from CB that show completely different conversions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can’t score 700 on the watered down SAT you don’t belong in a STEM program at a 4 year university. It is as simple as that. Score lower start out at community college and prove you can do the work.

Math isn’t racist and everyone can do basic math, but let’s face it not everyone develops the necessary abstract thinking skills for the higher level math required for STEM degrees and STEM jobs.

Problem solved, but there will still be a few exceptions where students start out fine but can’t make it through weed out courses.

How are there STEM Majors at most colleges then?

Because over 150,000 kids get a 700 or better in math on the SAT every year. It really isn’t that high a bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can’t score 700 on the watered down SAT you don’t belong in a STEM program at a 4 year university. It is as simple as that. Score lower start out at community college and prove you can do the work.

Math isn’t racist and everyone can do basic math, but let’s face it not everyone develops the necessary abstract thinking skills for the higher level math required for STEM degrees and STEM jobs.

Problem solved, but there will still be a few exceptions where students start out fine but can’t make it through weed out courses.

How are there STEM Majors at most colleges then?

I wouldn't make 700 the cut off. I think it should be a bit lower, like maybe 650. Some people just don't test well in standardized testing, and plus, a lot of these kids take the test at 16. Some people bloom a bit later.

But, it's also true that a lot of public schools aren't doing a good job educating students in math (or English for that matter). Too much grade inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those are not accurate conversions. There are inaccurate tables floating around. Here’s the one from Collegeboard directly: https://www.texasffa.org/docs/SAT%20Comparison%20Chart%20on%202400-1600%20Scale_68721.pdf

You’re cherry picking. That’s 1 exam’s concordance table. You can find 10 others from CB that show completely different conversions.

What are you even talking about? There's only one concordance table for 2400-->1600.

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those are not accurate conversions. There are inaccurate tables floating around. Here’s the one from Collegeboard directly: https://www.texasffa.org/docs/SAT%20Comparison%20Chart%20on%202400-1600%20Scale_68721.pdf

You’re cherry picking. That’s 1 exam’s concordance table. You can find 10 others from CB that show completely different conversions.

What are you even talking about? There's only one concordance table for 2400-->1600.

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf

The values are different between the two tables you posted. Something is off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can’t score 700 on the watered down SAT you don’t belong in a STEM program at a 4 year university. It is as simple as that. Score lower start out at community college and prove you can do the work.

Math isn’t racist and everyone can do basic math, but let’s face it not everyone develops the necessary abstract thinking skills for the higher level math required for STEM degrees and STEM jobs.

Problem solved, but there will still be a few exceptions where students start out fine but can’t make it through weed out courses.

How are there STEM Majors at most colleges then?

I wouldn't make 700 the cut off. I think it should be a bit lower, like maybe 650. Some people just don't test well in standardized testing, and plus, a lot of these kids take the test at 16. Some people bloom a bit later.

But, it's also true that a lot of public schools aren't doing a good job educating students in math (or English for that matter). Too much grade inflation.

Can you be more specific?

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure what is more shocking- the UC's are shocked to find out that removing a standardized test means that it was difficult to assess the academic readiness of high schoolers

or

this should have come as a shock to absolutely no one.

What is surreal is that the University of California colleges did not just go test optional but entirely outlawed the use of the SAT at all in admissions.

Then for AP exams actively stated that scores below 3 would not hurt an applicants chance at admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those are not accurate conversions. There are inaccurate tables floating around. Here’s the one from Collegeboard directly: https://www.texasffa.org/docs/SAT%20Comparison%20Chart%20on%202400-1600%20Scale_68721.pdf

You’re cherry picking. That’s 1 exam’s concordance table. You can find 10 others from CB that show completely different conversions.

What are you even talking about? There's only one concordance table for 2400-->1600.

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf

The values are different between the two tables you posted. Something is off.

The numbers are exactly the same. You are looking at pg 7 of the PDF, right?

[Anonymous]

This just tells me grade inflation is rampant in the high schools. If they are accepting kids with 3.8+ GPAs and they are showing up not college ready that means the high schools are just handing out As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can’t score 700 on the watered down SAT you don’t belong in a STEM program at a 4 year university. It is as simple as that. Score lower start out at community college and prove you can do the work.

Math isn’t racist and everyone can do basic math, but let’s face it not everyone develops the necessary abstract thinking skills for the higher level math required for STEM degrees and STEM jobs.

Problem solved, but there will still be a few exceptions where students start out fine but can’t make it through weed out courses.

How are there STEM Majors at most colleges then?

Because over 150,000 kids get a 700 or better in math on the SAT every year. It really isn’t that high a bar.

Most schools don’t have students with 700+ sat scores then , so the question remains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those are not accurate conversions. There are inaccurate tables floating around. Here’s the one from Collegeboard directly: https://www.texasffa.org/docs/SAT%20Comparison%20Chart%20on%202400-1600%20Scale_68721.pdf

You’re cherry picking. That’s 1 exam’s concordance table. You can find 10 others from CB that show completely different conversions.

What are you even talking about? There's only one concordance table for 2400-->1600.

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf

The values are different between the two tables you posted. Something is off.

The numbers are exactly the same. You are looking at pg 7 of the PDF, right?

They’re off by up to 30 points on the two. Are you serious?