Integration and DC Schools -- A high priority? Yay or nay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OSSE used to do more cross-tabulation of student metrics. Using the metric that includes the most students (90% attendance) in the most recent year I could find (2018) and using metric percentages and totals to back out total population numbers, breakdown of at-risk among racial groups was follows:

White 4% at-risk
Asian 12%
Two or more races 23%
Hispanic/Latino 34%
Black/African-American 65%

This is unsurprising but doesn't really tell us about middle class people in DC public schools. At risk students are usually, by definition, not middle class.

I think it might be surprising for the innumerate people a few pages back who seem to think black = at risk.

I’d be careful who I’m calling innumerate, if I were you. A model that’s right 70% of the time is a pretty good model.

Yeah, that's not how conditional probabilities work.

It’s actually more accurate than that if you assume all white are not at risk (and don’t make assumptions about other race). If you assume 50 white not at risk, you’re probably wrong twice (4% B|A). Same number of black at risk, you’re wrong 17.5 times (35% B|A). That’s basically 80% accuracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Counterpoint: half of lit consulting is at YY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Counterpoint: half of lit consulting is at YY

What is "lit consulting"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OSSE used to do more cross-tabulation of student metrics. Using the metric that includes the most students (90% attendance) in the most recent year I could find (2018) and using metric percentages and totals to back out total population numbers, breakdown of at-risk among racial groups was follows:

White 4% at-risk
Asian 12%
Two or more races 23%
Hispanic/Latino 34%
Black/African-American 65%

This is unsurprising but doesn't really tell us about middle class people in DC public schools. At risk students are usually, by definition, not middle class.

I think it might be surprising for the innumerate people a few pages back who seem to think black = at risk.

I’d be careful who I’m calling innumerate, if I were you. A model that’s right 70% of the time is a pretty good model.

Yeah, that's not how conditional probabilities work.

It’s actually more accurate than that if you assume all white are not at risk (and don’t make assumptions about other race). If you assume 50 white not at risk, you’re probably wrong twice (4% B|A). Same number of black at risk, you’re wrong 17.5 times (35% B|A). That’s basically 80% accuracy.

Accuracy is dependent on the size of each group in the overall population you're looking at.

The only reasonable rule of thumb you can make is white = not at risk. With any other racial group, there's a decent chance you will be wrong.

Why be wrong 12-35% of the time when you could just stop assuming class based on race altogether?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OSSE used to do more cross-tabulation of student metrics. Using the metric that includes the most students (90% attendance) in the most recent year I could find (2018) and using metric percentages and totals to back out total population numbers, breakdown of at-risk among racial groups was follows:

White 4% at-risk
Asian 12%
Two or more races 23%
Hispanic/Latino 34%
Black/African-American 65%

This is unsurprising but doesn't really tell us about middle class people in DC public schools. At risk students are usually, by definition, not middle class.

I think it might be surprising for the innumerate people a few pages back who seem to think black = at risk.

I’d be careful who I’m calling innumerate, if I were you. A model that’s right 70% of the time is a pretty good model.

Yeah, that's not how conditional probabilities work.

It’s actually more accurate than that if you assume all white are not at risk (and don’t make assumptions about other race). If you assume 50 white not at risk, you’re probably wrong twice (4% B|A). Same number of black at risk, you’re wrong 17.5 times (35% B|A). That’s basically 80% accuracy.

Accuracy is dependent on the size of each group in the overall population you're looking at.

The only reasonable rule of thumb you can make is white = not at risk. With any other racial group, there's a decent chance you will be wrong.

Why be wrong 12-35% of the time when you could just stop assuming class based on race altogether?

If the EV of getting it wrong is unacceptably high, statistical discrimination is rational- it’s not even risk aversion.

And both sides of that explain why lower middle class people get the hell out of DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

Yes but many people bought their homes more than 5 years ago, when rates and homes were lower.

But you're right there must be some kids of genuinely wealthy people attending these schools. I say this as someone who thinks my kid is getting a good education in DCPS: it is WILD to me that someone could afford to own a house that pricy and put your kids in public schools. I know private school is expensive, but if I had that kind of money, I would not be putting up with some of the stuff you have to put up with in DCPS. I'd happy live in a smaller home, in a less ritzy neighborhood, and buy my kids the best childhood and education I could find.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, back to the question at hand: how do the policy people at OSSE or DCPS define "intergrated."

I think the way OSSE calculates the school accountability score for its annual report card is kind of telling.

Each metric score is calculated by student group. Each student group's score accounts for the following percentages of the overall score:

All Students 30%
Economically Disadvantaged 40%
Race/Ethnicity 15%
Students with Disabilities 10%
English Learners 5%

The Race/Ethnicity score adds the score for every race/ethnicity group with 10 or more students and divides by the number of race/ethnicity groups.

https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/page_content/attachments/2025%20Report%20Card%20Technical%20Guide%20%28September%2022%202025%20Update%29.pdf

[Anonymous]

Plessy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's some on incomes in DC. https://www.dcfpi.org/all/inequality-remained-extreme-in-2024-as-dc-backslid-on-poverty/

The median income of $60,591 for Black households (statistically unchanged from 2023) was just over one-third of the $168,800 median household income for white, non-Hispanic households (also statistically unchanged from 2023).

The discussion about middle class families is interesting, because it seems to depend on what income levels make you 'middle class.' The poverty line here is supposedly in the $30K range. So $60K median puts black families in that range. The white household median income puts them in the top quarter of household income in the U.S. (above $165K).

I would consider 60k on the lower end of middle class especially if it was a one-parent household. I'd consider 168k on the upper end of middle class. Also those are just medians, so there are plenty of people on either side. Which means plenty of black families with an HHI above 60 and plenty of white families with an HHI under 168k, and I would consider most of the families in between as middle class. That's also all households, not limited to households with kids, which is a wildcard and it's hard to know how that would change these numbers.

I am very confused by the arguments on here that there are very few middle class families in DCPS. It seems transparently false, based on both the statistics and my personal experience. Like I'm still reeling from the person who posted the they believe the "median" income for families at their Ward 6 elementary is 300k, which I actually do not think is possible even at a school like Maury or Brent where yes there does tend to be a higher percentage of wealthy parents. If there are people who really believe that, it is absolutely impacting the culture of the school and the way an integrated (racially and socioeconomically) school will operate.

There are a ton of trolls on this thread, like the one insisting that there are $7mil and lots of $5mil houses in bounds for Janney, even though a quick google search disproves that silliness.

Technically Key and Mann here, but same difference:

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/2927-44th-St-NW-20016/home/113744981

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/5070-Millwood-Ln-NW-20016/home/9943109

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4869-Glenbrook-Rd-NW-20016/home/9946672

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/4433-Cathedral-Ave-NW-20016/home/9956065

How is this relevant? People living in such expensive places do not use DCPS.

+1 I work for a large law firm in DC. The partners making the kind of money that would enable them to buy one of these house universally send their kids to private school OR live in a select few suburban districts, not DCPS.

The only lawyers that send kids to DCPS at my firm are associates, but they don't make enough to afford houses like that. They might one day, and if they do, they will move their kids to private.

The Venn diagram is two separate circles. DCPS and public charters are for poor to upper middle class people, and everyone in between. But not wealthy folks.

Curious about this Venn diagram where "not wealthy folks" live in the same school zone as folks in $7 million homes.

Because not every home in that school zone is a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom SFH with a pool.

There are not really poor people living IB for Mann or Key, but there are UMC people whose homes didn't cost anywhere near that much. And the people whose homes do cost that much don't send their kids to Mann or Key.

Hard to buy a home for Key or Mann for less than $2.5 million. UMC people cannot afford the mortgage on a $2 million home (it's about $13,000 per month assuming you put down 20 percent).

Yes but many people bought their homes more than 5 years ago, when rates and homes were lower.

But you're right there must be some kids of genuinely wealthy people attending these schools. I say this as someone who thinks my kid is getting a good education in DCPS: it is WILD to me that someone could afford to own a house that pricy and put your kids in public schools. I know private school is expensive, but if I had that kind of money, I would not be putting up with some of the stuff you have to put up with in DCPS. I'd happy live in a smaller home, in a less ritzy neighborhood, and buy my kids the best childhood and education I could find.

There are definitely homes for well less than $2.5 million! You won't see them sitting on Zillow, because the $1.0 million to $1.6 million get scooped up fast. Meanwhile, all those $7 million houses are sitting on Zillow for a reason.