Breaking up with my toxic mom group (Ashley Tisdale essay)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."

So what you're describing is mean girl behavior, yes? When she asked why she wasn't invited they lied to her. When she told them she was upset they told her she was crazy. When she tried to discuss things they ignored her. Is that correct? So how on earth is saying that people did those things NOT a criticism of the awful behavior of those women?

Of course it's a criticism of that behavior. No one said it wasn't. The point is she didn't name names. She was talking about her own experience and didn't drag anyone else into it. Whereas Duff's husband launched a direct attack at Tisdale by directly calling her names.

The normie version of this would be like if someone posted on Facebook about how they had a hard year and realized some of their friendships weren't serving them but they are happy to moving into 2026 with good family and friends or something. I've seen people post stuff like this. Is it a little cryptic? Yeah, and if I don't already know, I might wonder about those friendships that "weren't serving them". But mostly I'll just take it at face value and be like "glad you're doing better" or something. Sure, that person might be trying to send a message to some of those former friends like "see, I'm doing great and I never cared about you anyway." That could be a little petty. But the pettiness is private and only the people who know what she's talking about are going to feel a way about it. This is a little messy but not super drama-seeking, IMO.

Now, if one of those former friends were to screen grab that post and re-post it with a nasty comment about the original poster, I would consider THAT super drama seeking and tacky and obnoxious. Especially if the tone of the original post was mostly positive and meant to be like "I was struggling but I'm doing good now." Like, why drag it into the mud.

That's how I read the situation.

Oh FFS. It has taken people under a minute to figure out who she was talking about. Please stop hiding behind this " she didn't name names" BS. It honestly makes everything else you say after that totally unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I first read about this on Reddit and people were saying the mom group was lead by Hilary Duff and also included Mandy Moore, and possibly/likely Meghan Trainor and Lea Michele. And some women who were likely not famous but were rich and well-connected, either from their husbands or from their own work as celeb stylists, influencers, etc. So a real group of A-listers …

It sounded like Ashley came late to the group and was a fringe friend/member or the queen bees Hilary and Mandy didn’t really care for her too much and wouldn’t let her into the “inner circle.” Tale as old as time! She was right to extract herself from the group when she did.

I wonder if Emily from the old Cupcakes and Cashmere blog is part of mom group? And is this the same group that sort of kicked Minka Kelly out because they started having kids and she didn't?

Confirmation: i see Ems, Christina, Raina, and a Striker sister in the alleged toxic mom gang per page six

Mandy Moore is dressed like an elderly person’s couch.

Ashley Tisdale is dressed like a genie. And the one next to her? I guess I'm too old (45) to know what's cool.

Wait, what? Are you talking about the woman seated bottom left (that's the one I think is dressed like a genie). I do not think that is Ashley Tisdale. I don't think Ashley Tisdale is in this photo.

She does appear in other group photos though, including from some of the girls-only outings/weekends. My understanding, though, is that the group was formed by Duff in 2021 when she started hosting kids' music classes at her house with some friends and friends of friends, and Tisdale got pulled in later, like in 2023 or even 2024, but then they started edging her out in 2025 which is why she's not in any of the 2025 photos on social media.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."

So what you're describing is mean girl behavior, yes? When she asked why she wasn't invited they lied to her. When she told them she was upset they told her she was crazy. When she tried to discuss things they ignored her. Is that correct? So how on earth is saying that people did those things NOT a criticism of the awful behavior of those women?

Of course it's a criticism of that behavior. No one said it wasn't. The point is she didn't name names. She was talking about her own experience and didn't drag anyone else into it. Whereas Duff's husband launched a direct attack at Tisdale by directly calling her names.

The normie version of this would be like if someone posted on Facebook about how they had a hard year and realized some of their friendships weren't serving them but they are happy to moving into 2026 with good family and friends or something. I've seen people post stuff like this. Is it a little cryptic? Yeah, and if I don't already know, I might wonder about those friendships that "weren't serving them". But mostly I'll just take it at face value and be like "glad you're doing better" or something. Sure, that person might be trying to send a message to some of those former friends like "see, I'm doing great and I never cared about you anyway." That could be a little petty. But the pettiness is private and only the people who know what she's talking about are going to feel a way about it. This is a little messy but not super drama-seeking, IMO.

Now, if one of those former friends were to screen grab that post and re-post it with a nasty comment about the original poster, I would consider THAT super drama seeking and tacky and obnoxious. Especially if the tone of the original post was mostly positive and meant to be like "I was struggling but I'm doing good now." Like, why drag it into the mud.

That's how I read the situation.

PP said "she's not actually accusing anyone of anything." Reconcile that with what you said, will you?

[Anonymous]

Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."

So what you're describing is mean girl behavior, yes? When she asked why she wasn't invited they lied to her. When she told them she was upset they told her she was crazy. When she tried to discuss things they ignored her. Is that correct? So how on earth is saying that people did those things NOT a criticism of the awful behavior of those women?

Of course it's a criticism of that behavior. No one said it wasn't. The point is she didn't name names. She was talking about her own experience and didn't drag anyone else into it. Whereas Duff's husband launched a direct attack at Tisdale by directly calling her names.

The normie version of this would be like if someone posted on Facebook about how they had a hard year and realized some of their friendships weren't serving them but they are happy to moving into 2026 with good family and friends or something. I've seen people post stuff like this. Is it a little cryptic? Yeah, and if I don't already know, I might wonder about those friendships that "weren't serving them". But mostly I'll just take it at face value and be like "glad you're doing better" or something. Sure, that person might be trying to send a message to some of those former friends like "see, I'm doing great and I never cared about you anyway." That could be a little petty. But the pettiness is private and only the people who know what she's talking about are going to feel a way about it. This is a little messy but not super drama-seeking, IMO.

Now, if one of those former friends were to screen grab that post and re-post it with a nasty comment about the original poster, I would consider THAT super drama seeking and tacky and obnoxious. Especially if the tone of the original post was mostly positive and meant to be like "I was struggling but I'm doing good now." Like, why drag it into the mud.

That's how I read the situation.

Oh FFS. It has taken people under a minute to figure out who she was talking about. Please stop hiding behind this " she didn't name names" BS. It honestly makes everything else you say after that totally unbelievable.

I think it matters. I think it's tacky for people to go around talking shit about other people by name, but I'm okay with someone describing their own subjective experience without dragging anyone else's name into it, especially if the goal is to connect with others who have had similar experiences.

It reminds me of the whole Amber Heard drama where Depp sued her for defamation because she wrote an op-ed about experiencing domestic violence (which she definitely did experience) where she didn't even mention his name, and he was like "everyone will know you are talking about me." Well yeah, if you don't want your ex-wife writing about her DV experience, maybe don't be a violent, abusive drunk? Everyone is accountable for their own behavior and the fact that she lost that case is insane to me.

I feel the same way about this. Ashely Tisdale should be allowed to speak publicly about a bad friend experience, especially in the context of an essay where she's just writing about negative friend dynamics and what she learned from it and not dishing dirt on specific people. If those people happen to be celebrities who are now worried that her essay implicates them and that people will get mad at them for what she has described... well, unless she's lying, I don't care. If you don't want to get called out for passive-aggressive mean girl behavior, there's one sure fire way to avoid that, and that's by not engaging in such behavior.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."

So what you're describing is mean girl behavior, yes? When she asked why she wasn't invited they lied to her. When she told them she was upset they told her she was crazy. When she tried to discuss things they ignored her. Is that correct? So how on earth is saying that people did those things NOT a criticism of the awful behavior of those women?

Of course it's a criticism of that behavior. No one said it wasn't. The point is she didn't name names. She was talking about her own experience and didn't drag anyone else into it. Whereas Duff's husband launched a direct attack at Tisdale by directly calling her names.

The normie version of this would be like if someone posted on Facebook about how they had a hard year and realized some of their friendships weren't serving them but they are happy to moving into 2026 with good family and friends or something. I've seen people post stuff like this. Is it a little cryptic? Yeah, and if I don't already know, I might wonder about those friendships that "weren't serving them". But mostly I'll just take it at face value and be like "glad you're doing better" or something. Sure, that person might be trying to send a message to some of those former friends like "see, I'm doing great and I never cared about you anyway." That could be a little petty. But the pettiness is private and only the people who know what she's talking about are going to feel a way about it. This is a little messy but not super drama-seeking, IMO.

Now, if one of those former friends were to screen grab that post and re-post it with a nasty comment about the original poster, I would consider THAT super drama seeking and tacky and obnoxious. Especially if the tone of the original post was mostly positive and meant to be like "I was struggling but I'm doing good now." Like, why drag it into the mud.

That's how I read the situation.

PP said "she's not actually accusing anyone of anything." Reconcile that with what you said, will you?

Happily. Writing an essay calling out a pattern of behavior in a relationship you were part of is an indictment of that behavior. But if you don't literally say "Mandy Moore did XYZ" then you are not accusing Mandy Moore of doing anything. You are just talking about your own experience with an anonymous person.

That the internet might speculate it was Mandy Moore is really not her problem. It's Mandy Moore's problem, but I think Mandy Moore could easily resolve that by simply not commenting on it, saying vague crap like "I love my friends and would never intentionally hurt anyone" and letting it blow over. That is not a reason for someone to have to remain silent on a personal experience they want to discuss publicly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

I mean ultimately that's also what she did.

Though it sounds like they included her in some activities but not others, which would have been very confusing and might have led her to hang on longer than she should have. She describes people who showed up to her daughter's birthday party, sent her flowers when she expressed upset over having been excluded from something, and went out of their way to tell her that any exclusion had been accidental. That's textbook gaslighting and it's understandable if her response was initially to trust what they were saying and assume she'd misunderstood.

This is why women need to learn to be more direct in their interactions with each other. Learn to say hard things, like "I was upset that you kept talking about your vacation house when I was dealing with damage to my home during the fires" or Or "I didn't invite you because I have been frustrated with your behavior lately." Or even "we aren't friends in that way, I'm sorry." Too many women lean on this fake friendliness all the time. Stop it. Just be direct in a respectful way and let other people decide what to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

It doesn’t actually seem like they were nice to her face if they were lying about knowing whether she was invited or not, seating her with people she didn’t know and planning events in front of her. Those are all not very nice and she’s entitled to talk about that experience. Why couldn’t they just be honest and tell her it wasn’t working out and to find a new group instead of icing her out and pretending they were still friends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

I mean ultimately that's also what she did.

Though it sounds like they included her in some activities but not others, which would have been very confusing and might have led her to hang on longer than she should have. She describes people who showed up to her daughter's birthday party, sent her flowers when she expressed upset over having been excluded from something, and went out of their way to tell her that any exclusion had been accidental. That's textbook gaslighting and it's understandable if her response was initially to trust what they were saying and assume she'd misunderstood.

This is why women need to learn to be more direct in their interactions with each other. Learn to say hard things, like "I was upset that you kept talking about your vacation house when I was dealing with damage to my home during the fires" or Or "I didn't invite you because I have been frustrated with your behavior lately." Or even "we aren't friends in that way, I'm sorry." Too many women lean on this fake friendliness all the time. Stop it. Just be direct in a respectful way and let other people decide what to do with it.

Or just walk away earlier?

With regard to trust, I tell my kids to go slow. Start by sharing small things, and see how their friends react. Also, see how they talk about others.

If you want them to change the way they act, talk, behave, etc. who cares about the reason why they are the way they are. They’re not the friends for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

I mean ultimately that's also what she did.

Though it sounds like they included her in some activities but not others, which would have been very confusing and might have led her to hang on longer than she should have. She describes people who showed up to her daughter's birthday party, sent her flowers when she expressed upset over having been excluded from something, and went out of their way to tell her that any exclusion had been accidental. That's textbook gaslighting and it's understandable if her response was initially to trust what they were saying and assume she'd misunderstood.

This is why women need to learn to be more direct in their interactions with each other. Learn to say hard things, like "I was upset that you kept talking about your vacation house when I was dealing with damage to my home during the fires" or Or "I didn't invite you because I have been frustrated with your behavior lately." Or even "we aren't friends in that way, I'm sorry." Too many women lean on this fake friendliness all the time. Stop it. Just be direct in a respectful way and let other people decide what to do with it.

Or just walk away earlier?

With regard to trust, I tell my kids to go slow. Start by sharing small things, and see how their friends react. Also, see how they talk about others.

If you want them to change the way they act, talk, behave, etc. who cares about the reason why they are the way they are. They’re not the friends for you.

She's an adult. Not your 7 yr old.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tisdale’s article appeared on my newsfeed today right next to the headlines about Tatiana schlossberg’s funeral and untimely death from aggressive cancer. A stark contrast and a reminder of how completely asinine and unimportant this entire topic is. It’s pedantic that cliques exist amongst grown adults and attention and validation seeking that tisdale would write an article about it. People lack perspective on what’s important in life.

Of course it seems unimportant compared to someone dying at a young age from cancer. 99% of this website is unimportant compared to that.

But friendships, finding support as a mom, and just generally having community are actually very important.

Which you can do without the friend “group” angle. Your own mom, or other women who have raised kids and share their wisdom and advice, coworkers, one-on-one friends. There’s so many ways to have the support and community, without the “group” part of it.

Many, many women find themselves in Mom groups. They want to know other moms in the neighborhood with babies the same age. This isn't remotely weird or odd.

The “group” idea is odd. Most people find 1-2 people they like in a group.

In a class of people you find 1-2 friends.
On a sports team you find 1-2 friends.
At work you find 1-2 friends.

The idea you will find a group where every single person is close friends is not real life.

Ok? But in that group are people pointedly excluding you, being weird and sitting you far away from the rest of the group, making plans in front of you? We don't all have to be friends but some of these women went out of their way to be jerks. It's not that hard to be nice at a kid's birthday party and not you know, invite all the other girlies for something like a brunch the next day in front of the hostess and not include her.

In a class we break into groups and yes I’m not part of every group. In school at lunch the lunch tables are harder to join than sororities. I’m not invited to every study group. In sports I’m not always invited to get food after practice, I don’t sit with certain people at pre-game dinners.

I go to birthday parties and don’t talk to every parent.

Your taking this not talk about something too far. It reminds me of the movie Booksmart where nobody’s allowed to talk about what school they got into because it might hurt somebody’s feelings.

Here’s the reality people are doing things without you. Some people have more money than you. Some people go on vacation vacations with friends and you’re not invited. You’re not invited to every brunch.

Find your one or two friends and do something with them.

Oh please. This is about what Ashley wrote. If you want to talk about your own personal groups do that elsewhere. What she described sucks.

We are in the relationship forum not the entertainment forum. This is talking about women groups in general.

Ashley, just needs to relax. People are mean I could write 20 articles about mean women I’ve met in the DC area.

Really? It’s not new. It’s not interesting.

Exactly. She wrote this article like she was me too’d. The mom group sounds like a cult. Just make a few friends and stop referring to yourself as a group.

One of my kids had a small preschool pod that was together for a few years. Us mom in the group bonded. We love seeing each other and some of our kids do some activities together, we have a what’s app group and sometimes get dinner. But some individuals are closer to each other than others and we all have other friends. What tisdale is whining about seems so immature. She’s 40 years old and doesn’t need her friend group to be everything in life, and even weirder to use her kids as a vehicle for it.

Sounds a bit hypocritical coming from someone with a group based around preschoolers. Find your own friends and leave the kids out if it.

We don’t have a “group.” We like each other and stay in touch and get dinner sometimes. We all have our own lives and friends outside of it and there’s no “Queen bee” dynamic.

The irritating parts of this saga are:

- grown women acting like they’re in middle school and having a “clique” that does everything together
- grown women behaving like their life revolves around said clique
- rejected clique member feeling so infuriated by her self proclaimed “drama” that they feel the need to expose it on a public way.

Hilary duff and Mandy Moore may be catty (who knows? Not me) but tisdale stirring the pot by creating tabloid fodder - all while framing this like a vanity fair assault expose - also tells you a lot about her level of self absorption as a person.

Pp again. And to add to that, I’d say that everything about duff and Mandy Moore is heresay, based on tisdales account. The only thing we actually know for sure is that tisdale is enough of a drama queen to publish this self absorbed, tone deaf article about a saga of her own creation.

I don’t think you can say it’s all just Ashley Tisdale airing random grievances and “what’s the other side of the story” when Hilary Duff’s husband stepped in, guns a blazin. Now Hilary (and her husband) both look kind of crazy and guilty. They could have stayed out of it and the whole thing would have blown over in a day or two, now look what we’re all talking about.

This. The messiest move here has been Duff's husband attacking Ashley directly, basically confirming for everyone that Hillary is part of the "toxic mom group" even as Ashley was denying that there were other famous moms in the group she was talking about.

Also, just a general pet peeve -- there is no "hearsay" here. It's not court. IRL, people can talk about their experiences and you can decide whether or not you trust their account or not, but there's no rule that you can't share things that other people may have said or done to you. Which, by the way, Tisdale didn't even do because she doesn't even say who any of the moms in her mom group were and she's not actually accusing anyone of anything.

I'm sorry, did you read the article? She's definitely accusing people of being petty, mean, toxic, exclusive, etc. If what she said wasn't bad at all then no one would be talking about it...

She didn't name names. She also doesn't just name call. She's not saying "ugh all the women in this group were petty, mean, toxic, and exclusive." Rather, she describes her personal experience of feeling excluded or left out, and many people concluded upon reading it "oh that is mean". She calls the group and its dynamics toxic (which, based on what we continue to find out, appears to be spot on) but says she thinks the women *in* the group are mostly good people caught in a negative dynamic. The meanest thing she says is that she thinks one of the women in the group might not be a good person, but she doesn't say who that woman is nor does she describe anything specifically this woman did that might provide hints as to who it is.

I read the piece when it came out and I didn't think "wow she's really calling these women out." My first thought was "yeah it is too bad when women get caught up in those dynamics -- I've been stuck in dynamics like that before and it sucks." I viewed it as a criticism of how women in general sometimes relate to each other, and not an attack on specific women at all.

Weird take, but ok. If she was fine with all the women, like you seem to claim, then why couldn't they have either ironed out their differences or left on a good note? Better yet, why couldn't they all have written a joint article about the ways in which groups of really nice women can somehow become toxic when all of them are so nice?

It doesn't sound like the other women had any interest in ironing out differences or ending on a good note. Her description of the dynamic is that she felt excluded from activities and sidelined in general, but that when she reached out to say she was feeling hurt, people said things like "oh we just assumed you were invited" or that they forgot.

I've been through this and that's part of the power play. They ignore you and exclude you, and if you say "hey it seems like people are upset with me but I don't know why, can we talk about it?" and everyone says "we have no idea what you're talking about, don't be so sensitive" and then it just continues. There is no closure, just a general feeling of rejection, and that is by design. They think no one can criticize them for their actions because they've gone out of their way to do the whole thing passively and under the cover of "oops I just just forgot to invite you."

So what you're describing is mean girl behavior, yes? When she asked why she wasn't invited they lied to her. When she told them she was upset they told her she was crazy. When she tried to discuss things they ignored her. Is that correct? So how on earth is saying that people did those things NOT a criticism of the awful behavior of those women?

Of course it's a criticism of that behavior. No one said it wasn't. The point is she didn't name names. She was talking about her own experience and didn't drag anyone else into it. Whereas Duff's husband launched a direct attack at Tisdale by directly calling her names.

The normie version of this would be like if someone posted on Facebook about how they had a hard year and realized some of their friendships weren't serving them but they are happy to moving into 2026 with good family and friends or something. I've seen people post stuff like this. Is it a little cryptic? Yeah, and if I don't already know, I might wonder about those friendships that "weren't serving them". But mostly I'll just take it at face value and be like "glad you're doing better" or something. Sure, that person might be trying to send a message to some of those former friends like "see, I'm doing great and I never cared about you anyway." That could be a little petty. But the pettiness is private and only the people who know what she's talking about are going to feel a way about it. This is a little messy but not super drama-seeking, IMO.

Now, if one of those former friends were to screen grab that post and re-post it with a nasty comment about the original poster, I would consider THAT super drama seeking and tacky and obnoxious. Especially if the tone of the original post was mostly positive and meant to be like "I was struggling but I'm doing good now." Like, why drag it into the mud.

That's how I read the situation.

Oh FFS. It has taken people under a minute to figure out who she was talking about. Please stop hiding behind this " she didn't name names" BS. It honestly makes everything else you say after that totally unbelievable.

I think it matters. I think it's tacky for people to go around talking shit about other people by name, but I'm okay with someone describing their own subjective experience without dragging anyone else's name into it, especially if the goal is to connect with others who have had similar experiences.

It reminds me of the whole Amber Heard drama where Depp sued her for defamation because she wrote an op-ed about experiencing domestic violence (which she definitely did experience) where she didn't even mention his name, and he was like "everyone will know you are talking about me." Well yeah, if you don't want your ex-wife writing about her DV experience, maybe don't be a violent, abusive drunk? Everyone is accountable for their own behavior and the fact that she lost that case is insane to me.

I feel the same way about this. Ashely Tisdale should be allowed to speak publicly about a bad friend experience, especially in the context of an essay where she's just writing about negative friend dynamics and what she learned from it and not dishing dirt on specific people. If those people happen to be celebrities who are now worried that her essay implicates them and that people will get mad at them for what she has described... well, unless she's lying, I don't care. If you don't want to get called out for passive-aggressive mean girl behavior, there's one sure fire way to avoid that, and that's by not engaging in such behavior.

Somewhere in between "someone was a little mean to me" and domestic violence, it stops being causing drama to write publicly about your experience. We can disagree about where that line is, but "my celebrity friends were mean girls" is, to me, solidly on the "drama" side. And obviously not being a mean girl is insufficient to not get called out for it, because people both outright lie and interpret events in ways that are maximally uncharitable to other people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Let’s say the other moms didn’t like Ashley: their options were to pretend to like her or to break up with her.

I think it’s less mean to break up with her.

Ashley should find good friends who like her.

But apparently they did the mean third option: pretend to like her to her face, even attending events she hosted and telling her that if she was included in certain activities it was an accidental oversight, while secretly disliking her and talking shit about her behind her back.

Agree she should find friends who like her, but having been through this myself, it's a real mind***k when you get out of a friendship with people who were fake nice to you while being nasty behind your back, and it makes you feel really unsure of yourself entering into other friendships because you are often thinking "well is this real though? is this person being nice to me because they like me or just because it's easier than being direct with me? can I trust them and share personal things with them or will they use that against me and gossip about me with other women when I'm not around."

This is why mean girls suck. The damage they cause is not confined to the relationships they poison with their bad behavior. It lives on.

It sounds like they were nice to her to her face but didn’t include her in their activities. If that doesn’t scream that they didn’t want to include her, I don’t know what does.

She should’ve moved on. It’s what I tell my kids to do when someone isn’t brave enough to break up with them in exactly the right way.

I mean ultimately that's also what she did.

Though it sounds like they included her in some activities but not others, which would have been very confusing and might have led her to hang on longer than she should have. She describes people who showed up to her daughter's birthday party, sent her flowers when she expressed upset over having been excluded from something, and went out of their way to tell her that any exclusion had been accidental. That's textbook gaslighting and it's understandable if her response was initially to trust what they were saying and assume she'd misunderstood.

This is why women need to learn to be more direct in their interactions with each other. Learn to say hard things, like "I was upset that you kept talking about your vacation house when I was dealing with damage to my home during the fires" or Or "I didn't invite you because I have been frustrated with your behavior lately." Or even "we aren't friends in that way, I'm sorry." Too many women lean on this fake friendliness all the time. Stop it. Just be direct in a respectful way and let other people decide what to do with it.

Or just walk away earlier?

With regard to trust, I tell my kids to go slow. Start by sharing small things, and see how their friends react. Also, see how they talk about others.

If you want them to change the way they act, talk, behave, etc. who cares about the reason why they are the way they are. They’re not the friends for you.

She's an adult. Not your 7 yr old.

So...she shouldn't know how to make great friends?

Show me a girl or a mom ranting about a mean friend group, and I can show you a friend group that the girl or mom shouldn't be a part of.