MCPS to end areawide Blair Magnet and countywide Richard Montgomery's IB program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

The magnet is going away. The proposals are NOT too continue the existing program but start new (lesser) programs. There is a stem program listed as one of many. Blair’s program isn’t called “stem”. It is a different program that will not be as advanced.

Incorrect. You need to rewatch the meeting.

Does the Board not publish documents or minutes?
A meeting video is not an accessible format, and also a meeting remark is nothing like a committed plan.

There's no "committed plan." There's a PowerPoint and a discussion.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

The last bullet in Page 16 is the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard this year (excluding those from the politicians ). They blame the existence of RMIB is the reason for the failure of regional IB, and the only way to fix it is to downgrade RMIB to regional program as well.

No, I think they're just saying continuing to have 24 buses for RMIB isn't sensible when they could, in theory, have similar programs closer to home for each region.

I think the streaming can be found on YouTube. They presented exactly what I cited, and later on Dr Taylor reiterated again that they believe making RMIB regional is the critical step to make other regional IB growing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

+1 It is no mean feat to build a program like Blair's magnet, and it is extraordinary to see highly able young people succeed in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

+1 It is no mean feat to build a program like Blair's magnet, and it is extraordinary to see highly able young people succeed in it.

You won’t see too many after this gets implemented

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

The magnet is going away. The proposals are NOT too continue the existing program but start new (lesser) programs. There is a stem program listed as one of many. Blair’s program isn’t called “stem”. It is a different program that will not be as advanced.

Incorrect. You need to rewatch the meeting.

Does the Board not publish documents or minutes?
A meeting video is not an accessible format, and also a meeting remark is nothing like a committed plan.

There's no "committed plan." There's a PowerPoint and a discussion.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

The last bullet in Page 16 is the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard this year (excluding those from the politicians ). They blame the existence of RMIB is the reason for the failure of regional IB, and the only way to fix it is to downgrade RMIB to regional program as well.

No, I think they're just saying continuing to have 24 buses for RMIB isn't sensible when they could, in theory, have similar programs closer to home for each region.

I think the streaming can be found on YouTube. They presented exactly what I cited, and later on Dr Taylor reiterated again that they believe making RMIB regional is the critical step to make other regional IB growing.

And how does Taylor make these other IB programs better? Sounds like he is going to transfer teachers from RM to do it. Some of the other IB programs do well, e.g., Rockville, but others, such as Kennedy's and Springbrook, underperform historically.

Taylor thinks building Blair and RM programs is an easy thing. Certainly, he is throwing these programs away quickly enough.

Taylor is not up to doing the job of MCPS' superintendent. He is relying on Niki Hazel, his CAO, who was an elementary school teacher after first getting her bachelors degree in psychology. Ms. Hazel has successfully navigated the politics of Central Office over the years. That doesn't make her qualified to reinvent diverse academic programs across the county.

Unfortunately, this regional system with reengineered programming will likely end with poorer overall student outcomes. There will be significant turnover in the BOE in the next election cycle. We'll see who ends up with their CO jobs once a new BOE is convened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr o said many times that isn’t the program, it’s the kids. the whole point of the magnet is the peer group. trachers, classes they are important but without peers it’s game over.

Half of the current make-up comes from Wootton and Churchill, the rest half come from all of the down-county. So SMACS will disappear literally. It will maintain half of its low-level courses, and all high-level courses will disappear. 😞

Seems like a race to the middle, or lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mr o said many times that isn’t the program, it’s the kids. the whole point of the magnet is the peer group. trachers, classes they are important but without peers it’s game over.

Half of the current make-up comes from Wootton and Churchill, the rest half come from all of the down-county. So SMACS will disappear literally. It will maintain half of its low-level courses, and all high-level courses will disappear. 😞

Seems like a race to the middle, or lower.

And MCPS is winning!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

And yet you have no basis to believe getting rid of the magnets will provide anything to the other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone so focused on magnets? Magnets do not guarantee admission into top colleges. We went through the magnet process. We know quite a few kids who picked APs instead of SMCS over the years and did great. Not every kid wants to do DE/MV/Quantum Physics/Neuroscience. It is hard for an 8th grader to choose a career path and stick to it. In fact many HS kids don’t know what major to choose in college. Why can’t we just leave the flagship magnets and may be add a few more seats based on interest that year? We can always make our home schools strong by adding more AP classes or dual enrollment. That way there’s no disruption.

Because the way these pea-brains work, the existence of a highly successful program is intolerable. Instead of focusing on poor performing programs the answer is to focus on taking from the successful ones. This viewpoint absolutely views the success of some as taking away from others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

And yet you have no basis to believe getting rid of the magnets will provide anything to the other kids.

+1 build it and they will come approach is mind-boggling. do people really believe kids will line up take courses that require them to study non-stop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

And yet you have no basis to believe getting rid of the magnets will provide anything to the other kids.

How is this confusing? We are talking about expanding the number of programs so more kids can get seats. I understand you don’t think it will work but you are being disingenuous when you say that I or anyone else wants to scrap magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a surprise? Taylor didn't start off strong and now another leader failing our kids. Instead, they should be expanding it. No one wants their kids bussed. Better to offer the classes as the home schools to allow all kids the same opportunities. He hasn't completed any of his early promises, including transparency.

I think that Taylor is claiming the regional programs across the county will duplicate the competitive magnet programs. I think he may underestimate what it takes to successfully undertake these programs.

I don't give 2 sh*** about Taylor, but I do think he is quite aware that programs will not be duplicated exactly. Watered down magnets for more kids will keep the middle to upper class masses happier than a couple of signature programs that not as many kids can access. The magnets were a tool to diversify schools back in the day. They did their job. It is time for change.

BTW, all the things that people talk about with the magnets (regeneron winners, etc.) are really things that parents are facilitating. Those families will still be able to provide those opportunities to their children.

+1 I think it's fine, and in fact a social good, to provide more access to more kids. Yes, even if that means a slightly less rigorous experience for the 10 kids per year who sign up for the most rigorous classes at SMCS.

I agree with this, but I'm also worried about the feasibility of standing up, what - 30? new magnet programs in 2 years and having even decent quality for all of them.

+1

They are talking about 8/region, and with onlyb4-5 schools/region, that means each school hosts 1-2 regional programs. That is much too many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

The magnet is going away. The proposals are NOT too continue the existing program but start new (lesser) programs. There is a stem program listed as one of many. Blair’s program isn’t called “stem”. It is a different program that will not be as advanced.

Incorrect. You need to rewatch the meeting.

Does the Board not publish documents or minutes?
A meeting video is not an accessible format, and also a meeting remark is nothing like a committed plan.

There's no "committed plan." There's a PowerPoint and a discussion.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

The last bullet in Page 16 is the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard this year (excluding those from the politicians ). They blame the existence of RMIB is the reason for the failure of regional IB, and the only way to fix it is to downgrade RMIB to regional program as well.

When I see that kind of thinking about having to downgrade RM, I realize that this wrongheaded thinking is likely fully formed and rigid. I hope that Taylor has his CV updated. I hope the BOE members have their post-BOE plans worked out now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

So basically don’t provide a challenge for the most advanced learners. Got it!

Where does this logic end? Should UMD become open enrollment in order to provide opportunities?

The only thing I find persuasive against the magnets is that the academic pressure is too much now because of the escalating competition. I’m not sure how you solve for that - if kids do just as well in a less intense setting then maybe it is important for schools to consider the kids’ overall wellness. But you hear plenty of stories of kids from top public HS fighting the same battles for accomplishments so I am not at all sure that this is unique to the culture of magnets.

K-12 does not serve the same end as higher education, nor does access function in the same way. You cannot compare a public school magnet to a flagship university. And no one has claimed we shouldn’t be challenging the top students. We are arguing about how to allocate resources in a large public school system that needs to provide for all students. UMD has no such obligation.

Yeah only because you are creating arbitrary distinctions though. It used to be that there was no question that the smartest kids in K-12 should get tracked or placed in magnets. In the past decade, this has become anathema for K-12 for a variety of reasons variously (and contradictorily) expressed as concerns with equity, or assertions that kids did not "need" advancement and it was bad for them (that was the SF argument for withholding algebra until 9th grade). Especially with regards to HS, there is no logical distinction between this kind of negative view of selectivity in private school that would not also extend to flagship colleges. What I believe happened is that K-12 education was caputured by dumbsh*ts chasing educational trends with no regard for actually teaching kids. And this extends also to other disastrous choices like "Zoom school," getting rid of textbooks, teaching kids math via computer apps ...

I do believe the smartest kids should get access to an accelerated track. The issue is that they currently don’t. CES and middle school magnets are lottery based. High school magnets have some successes but also some widespread equity issues including geography. I want more many more students to get access to advanced classes and a peer cohort. I’m less concerned about the couple dozen students per year across the entire county that might lose something kind of cool.

And yet you have no basis to believe getting rid of the magnets will provide anything to the other kids.

How is this confusing? We are talking about expanding the number of programs so more kids can get seats. I understand you don’t think it will work but you are being disingenuous when you say that I or anyone else wants to scrap magnets.

Those kids can already attend IB programs or take APs and are chosing not too - or their mere presence isn’t enough to make them the same as the magnet. There is zero reason to believe the regional magnets will change that. The rational answer to the small size of magnets would be to expand existing magnets or add a new one. Destroying the existing ones tells you something else is afoot. this is an educational policy approach that manifestly believes that high-achieving programs are by definition bad. The end of the concentration high achievement is actually their end goal even if they don’t say so. They sometimes even want to dampen achievement period. In this case they know they cannot actually get rid of the magnets altogether so they gambit is claim they are expanding opportunities by getting rid of the existing program.

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a surprise? Taylor didn't start off strong and now another leader failing our kids. Instead, they should be expanding it. No one wants their kids bussed. Better to offer the classes as the home schools to allow all kids the same opportunities. He hasn't completed any of his early promises, including transparency.

I think that Taylor is claiming the regional programs across the county will duplicate the competitive magnet programs. I think he may underestimate what it takes to successfully undertake these programs.

I don't give 2 sh*** about Taylor, but I do think he is quite aware that programs will not be duplicated exactly. Watered down magnets for more kids will keep the middle to upper class masses happier than a couple of signature programs that not as many kids can access. The magnets were a tool to diversify schools back in the day. They did their job. It is time for change.

BTW, all the things that people talk about with the magnets (regeneron winners, etc.) are really things that parents are facilitating. Those families will still be able to provide those opportunities to their children.

+1 I think it's fine, and in fact a social good, to provide more access to more kids. Yes, even if that means a slightly less rigorous experience for the 10 kids per year who sign up for the most rigorous classes at SMCS.

I agree with this, but I'm also worried about the feasibility of standing up, what - 30? new magnet programs in 2 years and having even decent quality for all of them.

+1

They are talking about 8/region, and with onlyb4-5 schools/region, that means each school hosts 1-2 regional programs. That is much too many.

(Whispers - when it is “magnet for all” they don’t actually have to, you know, do anything. They’ll just call it a magnet and done. Easy peasy.)

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Anonymous wrote:I appreciate the perspective of the current student, but listen to those of us with experience outside specialized schools. You would still have your string peer group because you would be taking the same classes for your specialized program. Possibly some of your electives might be integrated with “regular” kids, but it’s an important life skill for you to learn. You will not live your adult life surrounded by peers with your same level of intelligence, motivation, and access.

My own experience at a HS in a different state with 3,000 students, 555 in my graduating class. Our grade had a cohort of kids on advanced tracks and we were need up with almost all of our classes together for 4 years because we were the only students eligible for those advanced courses.

MCPS doesn't have a TJ or Stuy.
The countywide programs already have electives and even core courses shared with the host school.

Regardless, people who have never seen a specialized countywide program for don't understand the value it provides for the students who would be bored in the "advanced" courses.

When we were young, students who didn't have access to such programs would graduate high school early or Dual Enroll at a university, and have to find a gap year program or deal with the social challenge of being a year or more younger than their classmates.

And that’s what will happen again. For the regular advanced kids there are already many options - there is a wealth of AP classes, more IB spots than demand, the CAP program, Project Lead the Way, early college, dual enrollment. SO MANY options, not all well used. Any motivated advanced student can build a path through high school that meets their needs. But for the very highly motivated and extremely high achieving, Blair is the offering with the track record of meeting their needs. For a very small number of kids who need it. It is extremely short sighted to take this away.

A) Blair isn’t going away it’s catchment area is changing
B) If it’s for a very small number of kids then it actually makes sense if it does go away and instead funnel those kids to their next stage at university. The county has to be good stewards of resources in providing opportunity.

The magnet is going away. The proposals are NOT too continue the existing program but start new (lesser) programs. There is a stem program listed as one of many. Blair’s program isn’t called “stem”. It is a different program that will not be as advanced.

Incorrect. You need to rewatch the meeting.

Does the Board not publish documents or minutes?
A meeting video is not an accessible format, and also a meeting remark is nothing like a committed plan.

There's no "committed plan." There's a PowerPoint and a discussion.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ4P6782A9/$file/Sec%20Prog%20Analysis%20Boundary%20Studies%20Engaga%20Plan%20Update%20250724%20PPT.pdf

The last bullet in Page 16 is the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard this year (excluding those from the politicians ). They blame the existence of RMIB is the reason for the failure of regional IB, and the only way to fix it is to downgrade RMIB to regional program as well.

When I see that kind of thinking about having to downgrade RM, I realize that this wrongheaded thinking is likely fully formed and rigid. I hope that Taylor has his CV updated. I hope the BOE members have their post-BOE plans worked out now.

I hope magnet parents have enough clout to make that happen. Maybe you need to reach out to the people in SF who got algebra back in MS.

https://www.the74million.org/article/san-fran-voters-overwhelmingly-support-algebras-return-to-8th-grade/