Why are youth and high school sports so competitive to get into now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

I 100 percent agree with this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

I think this is true, but those athletes play the game much better, with fine tuned skills.

You can’t teach speed etc. can’t turn a non athlete into an athlete.

But you still see those great athletes around who didn’t start early with training etc and they aren’t as good as those who do. They never catch up with skills.

Our high school is twice as big as it was 20 years ago, same amount of varsity spots (ok now a few more with flag football and pickle ball).

Apparently, it's not the talent, but the grit that makes an athlete. Some talented kids find it easy because they are talented, so they don't put in the work thinking the talent is going to keep them on top. But that rarely happens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6m81hkbb5M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

+100

A lot of kids who start out young on high end travel teams end up getting cut eventually and it can really destroy their self worth. It also creates bad politics on a team as families think all the same kids should advance together.

I’d rather have my kid on an upward trajectory than always being worried about losing their spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

I think this is true, but those athletes play the game much better, with fine tuned skills.

You can’t teach speed etc. can’t turn a non athlete into an athlete.

But you still see those great athletes around who didn’t start early with training etc and they aren’t as good as those who do. They never catch up with skills.

Our high school is twice as big as it was 20 years ago, same amount of varsity spots (ok now a few more with flag football and pickle ball).

Apparently, it's not the talent, but the grit that makes an athlete. Some talented kids find it easy because they are talented, so they don't put in the work thinking the talent is going to keep them on top. But that rarely happens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6m81hkbb5M

It’s both, plus being in the right place at the right time, not getting injured, getting opportunities that others don’t.

Watch the last ESPYs and South Carolina Women’s basketball coach’s speech. She spoke of this. There’s a lot of luck (and politics) when it comes to reaching the top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

I think this is true, but those athletes play the game much better, with fine tuned skills.

You can’t teach speed etc. can’t turn a non athlete into an athlete.

But you still see those great athletes around who didn’t start early with training etc and they aren’t as good as those who do. They never catch up with skills.

Our high school is twice as big as it was 20 years ago, same amount of varsity spots (ok now a few more with flag football and pickle ball).

Apparently, it's not the talent, but the grit that makes an athlete. Some talented kids find it easy because they are talented, so they don't put in the work thinking the talent is going to keep them on top. But that rarely happens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6m81hkbb5M

It’s both, plus being in the right place at the right time, not getting injured, getting opportunities that others don’t.

Watch the last ESPYs and South Carolina Women’s basketball coach’s speech. She spoke of this. There’s a lot of luck (and politics) when it comes to reaching the top.

Link?

[Anonymous]

Dawn Staley - winner of Jimmy V award for perserverance - worth watching the whole speech but she speaks of how the stars must align to reach the very top around minute 5.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mMPSvDtwGck

Also she’s best example there is of grit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

I think this is true, but those athletes play the game much better, with fine tuned skills.

You can’t teach speed etc. can’t turn a non athlete into an athlete.

But you still see those great athletes around who didn’t start early with training etc and they aren’t as good as those who do. They never catch up with skills.

Our high school is twice as big as it was 20 years ago, same amount of varsity spots (ok now a few more with flag football and pickle ball).

Great athletes have easily picked up skills when starting a sport at the very normal age of 12. Kids in middle school have been introduced to sports in elementary school, camps, family, friends, playing by themselves. It would be rare for a 12 year old to start playing baseball and it’s the first time he picked up a ball or bat.

Not only do natural athletes catch up to kids who started at age 7, they surpass them after a couple of years. The natural athletes have everything it takes - speed, agility, hand eye coordination, plus. Genetics play a big part in why there even are natural athletes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

There’s no way playing 2nd and 3rd grade sports helps or hurts a kid. It’s fun but not necessary. Rec league doesn’t usually do well with drills and skills, you’re better off taking classes.

What sports did your kid stick with in high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

There’s no way playing 2nd and 3rd grade sports helps or hurts a kid. It’s fun but not necessary. Rec league doesn’t usually do well with drills and skills, you’re better off taking classes.

What sports did your kid stick with in high school?

Baseball and basketball.

[Anonymous]

Let’s call the cops

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

The bolded is simply wrong. Just google “offers eighth grader scholarship”.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/15597983/alabama-crimson-tide-offers-scholarship-eighth-grade-linebacker-prospect-jesus-machado

The recruiting process is extremely long, and talent evaluators search wherever they can to find an edge. To be clear, the eighth grade scholarship offer is extremely, extremely rare and will often be pulled and the vast majority of recruitment time is spent on HS upperclassmen, but you’re naive if you think recruiters aren’t searching for an edge.

The very top projected basketball players in a graduating class are usually identified around 8th or 9th grade. For example, you can find articles on the 2025 no. 1 player (Boozer) dating back to early 2022. Obviously, the very tippy top is easier to identify earlier…

That said, vast majority of kids aren’t going to play beyond high school. Do your best to focus on developing the best high school player you can. If the kid is talented enough to play beyond that, it will manifest on its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I feel most of the competitiveness is driven by lack of opportunity. Pools, fields, courts etc. Another aspect is that there just aren't all that much else to fill kids time with or to cultivate being physically fit.

When I was a kid growing up in a rural area. There were plenty of chores. Clearing the fields, weeding the gardens, bringing in wood for the fire, splitting wood, and then there were plenty of go run around and play outside.

I mean sure you could have kids do art, science experiments, sniff glue, or something, but these all tend to be sedentary consumptive activities. Let's buy bags and bags of sodium bicarbonate so they can make volcanoes.

Not to ding on art, but just pointing out that for kids in an urban/suburban area there isn't much else.

This reflects a lack of creativity.

I have a kid who plays no team sports. She does ballet (not competition based but fairly rigorous) and she swims noncompetitively (stroke and turn clinics mostly). She has friends through both activities.

As a family we hike and bike and play tennis casually.

If she doesn't have a dance or swim class she will go play at the park on her own or with friends for an hour or two in the evening. Climbing or kicking a ball around or doing basic gymnastic skills. She gets sweaty and tired and comes home tired and ready for a shower and bed.

She also enjoys art and science thought those things occupy different parts of her life. She gets physical exercise every day and eats healthy. She is a healthy weight and has plenty of energy and spends remarkably little time on screens (doesn't really watch much TV and rarely asks for it and has yet to ask for a phone or tablet at age 10).

She tried competitive sports when she was younger and didn't like it. Hated soccer -- she was small for her age cohort and not aggressive and even in K the kids fought for the ball and were competitive and it just wasn't fun for someone who likes taking her time and does not like contact in sports. Basketball was a similar story. She did take tennis and enjoyed it but chose to focus on swimming and ballet. She's actually not bad at it and I could see her going out for a high school team but we aren't sure how competitive they will be. If making a HS team means playing tennis intensely competitively for the next 4 years and hiring private coaches and all that then it won't be worth it to her or us. I could also see her doing cross-country (she won't be fast but she's diligent and could enjoy it) or crew (our HS doesn't have a competitive it's just a club but she likes water sports).

So no you don't have no choice but to sign your kids up for highly competitive sports from a young age and then do travel sports and spend huge amounts of money on them. We currently spend between $180-250 per month on sports and activities for her (on the higher end when she's doing ballet and swim at the same time or if she needs new equipment for anything) plus the cost of family recreational activity. I actually feel really fortuante that we are well off enough to be able to afford that comfortably and also that we only have one kid so we don't have to make a lot of tough choices. But we aren't spending tens of thousands of dollars or killing ourselves in terms of schedules. Our lives are pretty chill.

You absolutely have options. This idea that it's travel sports or fat lazy kids on screens is a false dichotomy.

There is a lot of judgement in this post from someone who would obviously have their precious DD in all the competitive travel sports possible if not for the bolded.

Also, my HS aged son does competitive travel baseball and basketball and we spend around what you’re spending on your daughter’s structured physical activities that don’t count as structured physical activities in your world.

Nope, not at all-- I was silently glad to be able to opt out of travel sports and have zero issue with my kid's lack of competitive athletic spirit.

And my judgment is not if parents who do travel sports or have very competitive kids. It's of parents like the PP who claim that's the only way to keep your kid physically active with a social life. It's not, and if your kid is not into those sports there are lots of other things you can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

The bolded is simply wrong. Just google “offers eighth grader scholarship”.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/15597983/alabama-crimson-tide-offers-scholarship-eighth-grade-linebacker-prospect-jesus-machado

The recruiting process is extremely long, and talent evaluators search wherever they can to find an edge. To be clear, the eighth grade scholarship offer is extremely, extremely rare and will often be pulled and the vast majority of recruitment time is spent on HS upperclassmen, but you’re naive if you think recruiters aren’t searching for an edge.

The very top projected basketball players in a graduating class are usually identified around 8th or 9th grade. For example, you can find articles on the 2025 no. 1 player (Boozer) dating back to early 2022. Obviously, the very tippy top is easier to identify earlier…

That said, vast majority of kids aren’t going to play beyond high school. Do your best to focus on developing the best high school player you can. If the kid is talented enough to play beyond that, it will manifest on its own.

So an asterisk with a note saying that although very rare there will be some 8th graders getting non-binding offers from scouts. You will typically find these scouts from Southern and Midwestern schools sniffing around the Catholic schools where they will find the top players in football, baseball, basketball and other sports.

It must be a competitive job for the schools’ agents because they’re probably all going to the top 20 high schools for sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only this frenzy in certain sports and in over-populated 'super zip code' metros. Move to the exurbs or flyover country and youth sports are still chill. It's because these wacko striver parents are all living through their kids. And no matter how much dough they blow and summers and weekends wasted carting kids everywhere, they still won't go D1. These arrogant sports-obsessed parents think they're hot s*** when they're really literally being scammed and coerced out of their money...and 99% chance the kid will end up at the same college anyone else can go to with the same CV.

+1. This is the blunt reason. Parents have lost all perspective about what youth sports should be and the experience their kids should have playing them. City rec league sports used to be a way for neighborhood kids to build friendships, get exercise, stay in shape and learn sportsmanship. Now it's all about parents paying a fortune for some travel league headquartered hundreds of miles away so they can spending every weekend driving 100-200 miles to play baseball. The parents hope that maybe this will help their kid stand out well enough to maybe get recognized for a scholarship, but the odds of this are firmly stacked against them. Kids would be better off if sports reverted back to how they were 20+ years ago and academics became the focus once again for getting into a good college.

Pretty sure athletic college recruiting was a thing 20 years ago. I don’t think you realize it’s always been a thing going back to the early 1900s.

The difference is back then the Ivy schools were actually best in the country in sports like football but they still just took kids from Andover or other elite private schools who were white and Protestant. Not the best athletes or students.

The current system ramped up in the 1980s…and went to another level in just the last 5 years with the transfer portal, NIL $$$s and soon paying athletes directly to play.

No kid was paying a ton of money to play a sport starting at 7 years old. The early 80s kids played maybe middle school and then high school. The real talented athletes would go on to play in college and a very few went pro. There were recruiters and rankings but there weren’t so many parents who thought they could buy the talent necessary to go D1 or pro.

I know too many former pro athletes who went to college then professional for maybe 5-10 years. They would then come home lost, not knowing anything but what they’ve been doing every day for years.

I don’t understand this “tons of money” argument. My kid plays two travel sports and we have never paid more than around $500-$1000 per season.

It’s not nothing, but it’s not exactly breaking the bank either.

And the bolded can be applied to literally *anything*. Why do you think mid-life crises exist?

I guess I’ve read so many posters saying they spend well over $10,000 for club sports and thousands for private tutors and it takes their whole weekends and travel costs add up.

Do mid-life crises start at 30 years old? Because so many of them are done by then without any other skills.

Most travel sports don’t cost anywhere close to $10,000. Don’t be stupid.

And who cares if an adult starts feeling lost in life at 30 or 40 years old? What about the lawyer in golden handcuffs who realizes at 35 that he hates his job and his life, but what the heck is he going to do now? It’s no different, so stop pretending that it there is some sort of unique let down for athletes.

Parents who are obsessed with making their child a top baseball player or whatever don’t just stop at low level travel teams. And the kids who are at the top need to spend a lot more just to stay at the top.

What about a lawyer who hates his shitty job? That would describe half of them.

There’s no comparison to, say a hockey player who loves his job, first year salary $1 million, five years later $5 million per year, two years later cut from his team at 30 years old. Some handle it by finding a new career, some fall into drugs and alcohol and girls. It is a very unique letdown.

Your first paragraph is true for some, but not all. It’s not necessary for the genuinely talented kids to spend a ton of money being on the best team and attending every BS money-grab “showcase”. Kids who know what’s up don’t bother with any of that crap until they’re about 16, because they know that no one who actually matters gives a single sh!t about whatever happened when they were 15 and under. Kids who know what’s up ALSO know that being on the tippy top winningest middle school quintuple A+ travel team is not necessarily correlated with their *individual* development as a player, which is ultimately what actually matters.

And someone needs to educate these clueless athletes that obviously your athletic career has a *very* limited shelf life so you’d better save some money. No reason not to pursue a dream though.

That’s good to know. Posters here are always fretting about how 12 years old is just too old to play basketball, you need to start in kindergarten. I always thought that sounded ridiculous but it’s what the vast majority are saying. I know the genuinely talented in the 80s and 90s didn’t do all of this and everyone says it’s changed!

I have a feeling the genuinely talented are the same ones that were picked 30 years ago. All that being on three teams at once along with tutors hasn’t changed anything.

To be clear, I think you do need to start playing relatively young still. My kid started his sports in 2nd and 3rd grade, but he played rec league only in elementary school. Then he did inexpensive, local travel only travel teams in middle school. We have never paid for private coaching or lessons.

I’m just saying you don’t need to be over the top crazy with it young. You don’t need to be on a national showcase winning team when you’re young. Just slowly and steadily build a solid foundation of skills and abilities, athleticism, and most importantly keep the love of the sport alive and avoid injury by not overdoing it.

For those interested in college sports, recruiters don’t care what elementary and middle school kids are doing. They care what the older teenagers are doing, so the kids should be in a position to really start pushing and be taken seriously when they’re around 16.

The bolded is simply wrong. Just google “offers eighth grader scholarship”.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/15597983/alabama-crimson-tide-offers-scholarship-eighth-grade-linebacker-prospect-jesus-machado

The recruiting process is extremely long, and talent evaluators search wherever they can to find an edge. To be clear, the eighth grade scholarship offer is extremely, extremely rare and will often be pulled and the vast majority of recruitment time is spent on HS upperclassmen, but you’re naive if you think recruiters aren’t searching for an edge.

The very top projected basketball players in a graduating class are usually identified around 8th or 9th grade. For example, you can find articles on the 2025 no. 1 player (Boozer) dating back to early 2022. Obviously, the very tippy top is easier to identify earlier…

That said, vast majority of kids aren’t going to play beyond high school. Do your best to focus on developing the best high school player you can. If the kid is talented enough to play beyond that, it will manifest on its own.

Your ridiculous example is an “the exception proves the rule” situation. The bolded statement is accurate. College recruiters DO NOT CARE about middle school kids or elementary school kids.