Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

Sign the petition. Help your child. For those with younger students only, sign now, get others to sign. Your student will be in high school sooner than you know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sign the petition. Help your child. For those with younger students only, sign now, get others to sign. Your student will be in high school sooner than you know!

Step 1: sign the petition
Step 2: ?
Step 3: help your child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

These documented benefits?

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

I asked for methods of measuring and monitoring impact. Not purported benefits of the time shift. Your reading comprehension needs work.

You called them "supposed" benefits. Just clarifying that they are, in fact, documented benefits.

If you looked at the study methodologies, you’ll most of them a reviews of other studies.

One of them relied on student diaries and based their findings on the self-reported diaries of the students.

If you know anything about research, I shouldn’t have to explain to you why we should be wary of any supposed “benefits” that are claimed based on those two methodologies.

[Anonymous]

Fairfax County schools did this a few years ago — moved middle sxhool earlier annd high school later — and I think it’s been considered largely successful by both parents and kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

These documented benefits?

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

I asked for methods of measuring and monitoring impact. Not purported benefits of the time shift. Your reading comprehension needs work.

You called them "supposed" benefits. Just clarifying that they are, in fact, documented benefits.

If you looked at the study methodologies, you’ll most of them a reviews of other studies.

One of them relied on student diaries and based their findings on the self-reported diaries of the students.

If you know anything about research, I shouldn’t have to explain to you why we should be wary of any supposed “benefits” that are claimed based on those two methodologies.

DP. I clicked on these links, as well. I see a ton of “may” and “suggests” and “possibly” statements like this:
“The literature regarding effect of school start time delays on important aspects of high school life suggests some salutary effects, but often the evidence is indirect, imprecise, or derived from cohorts of convenience, making the overall quality of evidence weak or very weak. This review highlights a need for higher-quality data upon which to base important and complex public health decisions.”

Certainly isn’t conclusive evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County schools did this a few years ago — moved middle sxhool earlier annd high school later — and I think it’s been considered largely successful by both parents and kids.

My brother's school district in NC flipped ES and HS and it's working well there, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County schools did this a few years ago — moved middle sxhool earlier annd high school later — and I think it’s been considered largely successful by both parents and kids.

My brother's school district in NC flipped ES and HS and it's working well there, too.

MCPS is not flipping ES and HS. This is a non-starter. Equity folks do not like it.

[Anonymous]

I can’t imagine the nightmare this would cause on the roads. Right now, the most congested time is 8-8:30 and now you want high school drivers and busses on the road then?

https://wtop.com/local/2024/01/best-and-worst-times-for-morning-commuters-to-leave-the-house-in-and-around-dc/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

These documented benefits?

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

I asked for methods of measuring and monitoring impact. Not purported benefits of the time shift. Your reading comprehension needs work.

You called them "supposed" benefits. Just clarifying that they are, in fact, documented benefits.

If you looked at the study methodologies, you’ll most of them a reviews of other studies.

One of them relied on student diaries and based their findings on the self-reported diaries of the students.

If you know anything about research, I shouldn’t have to explain to you why we should be wary of any supposed “benefits” that are claimed based on those two methodologies.

DP. I clicked on these links, as well. I see a ton of “may” and “suggests” and “possibly” statements like this:
“The literature regarding effect of school start time delays on important aspects of high school life suggests some salutary effects, but often the evidence is indirect, imprecise, or derived from cohorts of convenience, making the overall quality of evidence weak or very weak. This review highlights a need for higher-quality data upon which to base important and complex public health decisions.”

Certainly isn’t conclusive evidence.

The late-start squad either doesn't read carefully or hopes no one else will as they breathlessly tout that the data is sound and science is behind their proposal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sign the petition. Help your child. For those with younger students only, sign now, get others to sign. Your student will be in high school sooner than you know!

Actually it will not help younger kids who are watched by their older siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

The extracurriculars, like swim and other sports happen because of those business schedules. But, the anti-earlier poster is clear that she or he doesn't want to parent and enforce bedtime rules so they want it to make it easier on them, and don't care of the impact on other kids, including pushing them going back to bed later. They are lazy and don't even have their kids in any activities so their kids have all afternoon and evening to goof off so it should be a non-issue going to bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

The extracurriculars, like swim and other sports happen because of those business schedules. But, the anti-earlier poster is clear that she or he doesn't want to parent and enforce bedtime rules so they want it to make it easier on them, and don't care of the impact on other kids, including pushing them going back to bed later. They are lazy and don't even have their kids in any activities so their kids have all afternoon and evening to goof off so it should be a non-issue going to bed.

You over scheduled your child. Why do we care if yours has an early swim practice? School is not optional. Swim is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

Do you mean like the one they settled on a few years ago?

Correct. We already moved the start time back from 7:15/7:20 to 7:45 and they're still complaining.

Problem is, a lot of kids are spending that 30 minutes in the hallway because buses drop them at the school at 7:10. So moving the start time didn't actually change much if your child relies on the bus for transportation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County schools did this a few years ago — moved middle sxhool earlier annd high school later — and I think it’s been considered largely successful by both parents and kids.

Loudon County switched it also.
But MCPS is lagging in this area behind many school districts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

Do you mean like the one they settled on a few years ago?

Correct. We already moved the start time back from 7:15/7:20 to 7:45 and they're still complaining.

Problem is, a lot of kids are spending that 30 minutes in the hallway because buses drop them at the school at 7:10. So moving the start time didn't actually change much if your child relies on the bus for transportation.

School buses aren't showing up that early. Are you talking about Ride On/Metrobus?