Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

I’ve worked in high schools with 7:30am start times and 9am start times. 1st period always contains sleepy kids. Pushing start times back won’t change a thing.

Perhaps students shouldn’t stay up on their phones until 2am. I can’t tell you how many emails I get sent at 1:30am and 3am.

FFS. Stop. An hour and a half would undoubtedly make a difference, even if not ALL of the students would be bright eyed and bushy tailed.

We all know you just don’t want to stay later.

I’m the PP. You’re so wrong. I would LOVE to stay later. That would be ideal.

But what’s the point? It won’t make a difference. I speak from actual experience, as a parent AND a teacher.

I speak from actual experience as a parent and a scientist. Your blanket “it won’t make a difference” is worth absolutely nothing.

It’s just, like, your opinion, man.

Well, scientist, explain it to us then. How will later times DIRECTLY and CLEARLY translate to more sleep for high school students?

Because, scientist, high schoolers have pesky habits like staying up late texting, watching movies, cramming for tests. Some high schoolers will be attending more 6am practices and rehearsals since there will be less time after school for these events.

So please explain it to those of us on this thread who raise or teach teenagers. How will a later start time guarantee more sleep?

The late-start advocates don’t have an answer to your common sense questions. They’re empty vessels.

Early start times make it IMPOSSIBLE for the AVERAGE teen to get enough sleep, due to clearly established and undisputed circadian rhythm shifts in the teenage years.

Later start times will make it POSSIBLE for the AVERAGE teen to get enough sleep, but OBVIOUSLY if the teen is staying up even later BY CHOICE or getting up earlier BY CHOICE, they will not get more sleep!

One cannot “parent” a teen into sleeping earlier than their bodies are physically capable of falling asleep (early start time situation), but one COULD “parent” a child into sleeping at a developmentally appropriate bedtime (later start time situation). That does not mean that they WILL, merely that the OPTION to get enough sleep would be on the table.

This is really not a difficult concept to understand. I wonder if some of the advocates for these early start times are sleep deprived themselves.

Not a problem here, then, because every teen is above average on DCUM!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

What accountability measures are in place or will be put in place to make sure we get the adolescent sleep increase you state is essential and will come from making this costly and burdensome shift?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

What accountability measures are in place or will be put in place to make sure we get the adolescent sleep increase you state is essential and will come from making this costly and burdensome shift?

The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

[Anonymous]

Oh, not this again! Will you people just get over it!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

Do you mean like the one they settled on a few years ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

What accountability measures are in place or will be put in place to make sure we get the adolescent sleep increase you state is essential and will come from making this costly and burdensome shift?

The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

Do you mean like the one they settled on a few years ago?

Correct. We already moved the start time back from 7:15/7:20 to 7:45 and they're still complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, not this again! Will you people just get over it!?!

No we will not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

These documented benefits?

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

What accountability measures are in place or will be put in place to make sure we get the adolescent sleep increase you state is essential and will come from making this costly and burdensome shift?

If you are so concerned about the cost and burden, why are you adamant that we must make it MORE costly and MORE burdensome with “accountability measures”? Would you propose changing that the start time to be earlier if sleep metrics didn’t hit what ever targets you deem satisfactory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

These documented benefits?

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

I asked for methods of measuring and monitoring impact. Not purported benefits of the time shift. Your reading comprehension needs work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the argument is that some kid's sleep takes precedence over other kid's sleep?

No, it’s that we should have a schedule that benefits the most kids. If school start time was only pushed back by half an hour, no one would shift extracurriculars to the morning.

What accountability measures are in place or will be put in place to make sure we get the adolescent sleep increase you state is essential and will come from making this costly and burdensome shift?

If you are so concerned about the cost and burden, why are you adamant that we must make it MORE costly and MORE burdensome with “accountability measures”? Would you propose changing that the start time to be earlier if sleep metrics didn’t hit what ever targets you deem satisfactory?

The fact that I have to explain to you why we should measure if what we're claiming will happen, does happen, before we spend a large amount of human and financial resources actually says everything about you, your proposal and your integrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The exact same ones they put in place the last time they pushed back start times.

So you don't have an answer. Just like I thought. So stop making claims about the supposed benefits of pushing back the start time that you'll never be able to verify and back up.

These documented benefits?

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

I asked for methods of measuring and monitoring impact. Not purported benefits of the time shift. Your reading comprehension needs work.

You called them "supposed" benefits. Just clarifying that they are, in fact, documented benefits.