Most overrated international destination?

[Anonymous]

Good article in FT about overtourism esp in Europe and specifically Amsterdam and the steps it is now taking to reduce tourism including forcing the airport ti reduce flights, shutting sex shops, etc.

There is a firewall so link doesn’t work but you can google title for access. “Tourists are back. Is it time to tell them to stay away?”. Some excerpts:

At times, European anti-tourist rhetoric echoes European anti-immigration rhetoric. A common line is, “We are being swamped by misbehaving invaders who refuse to adapt to our superior culture.” In truth, of course, tourists don’t have a monopoly on misbehaviour. They probably behave worse on average in places branded with an image of “moral holiday”, like Amsterdam and Bali, and better in Paris with its intimidating etiquette.

Social media has worsened an ancient tourist tendency to treat the place you are visiting as a backdrop. People visit a city, in spirit, with their online followers. Any locals encountered can seem like extras on a stage-set, there to add colour to pictures or act as auxiliary tourist information officers.

In Barcelona, the number of tourists staying in hotels jumped from 1.7mn in 1990 to 9.5mn in 2019 — a number that excludes the city’s Airbnbs, some of them entire buildings that have been removed from the local housing market and essentially offshored.

In some neighbourhoods of Paris, the paper says, the number of foreign visitors per sq km exceeded 100,000. For comparison: Paris’s 20,000 inhabitants per sq km already make it Europe’s densest city.

[Anonymous]

Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

This is so true. While I like the occasional overseas trip, my most memorable trips are to the western U.S. Never tire of the landscape and beauty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

This is so true. While I like the occasional overseas trip, my most memorable trips are to the western U.S. Never tire of the landscape and beauty.

I agree that there are many amazing sites with incredible views, wide-open vistas, etc. in the US. But some of us like some non-American history and culture on our trips. It takes around 3,000 miles to drive from one end of the US to the other, and you're still in the same country where the same main language is spoken everywhere. If you drove 3,000 miles in Europe you would traverse quite a few countries, each with different histories, cultures, and languages. To each his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

[Anonymous]

The only mainland US beaches that pass muster for me are in Miami because they’re basically like the Caribbean. Don’t try to sell me your cold brown water waters like it’s Bali. There’s nothing more disappointing than going to a sad a** East Coast beach after swimming in the crystal clear warm waters of the Caribbean or Mediterranean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

You don’t know what you are talking about. There are plenty of tourist trap restaurants in Europe serving subpar food. It’s incredibly naive to think that just because it’s served in Europe, it must be good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Madrid. I lived in several parts of Spain, & Madrid is like a synthesis of the worst aspects of all the other parts of spain: crime, sprawl, crappy new architecture, rudeness, American fast food, etc. Lots of great places to visit in Spain. I found that the capital city isn’t one of them.

Madrid left me cold, as well. It felt soulless, like Midtown Manhattan.

Interesting. I loved Madrid. I liked it better than Barcelona.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

Agree!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who goes to Bali for the beaches will be disappointed. But how can you go to Ubud and the Ayung River Valley and not love the culture and natural beauty? The palaces, gamelan, dances, food, local Buddhist/animist customs. You won’t experience the true beauty of Bali if you stay at a beach resort.

Hmm...mmm.... I spent two weeks on Bali and it was more disappointing than not. Good food, yes, some nice scenery, yes. But crowded, traffic jams everywhere, Ubud was overbuilt and definitely more touristy than local. The water at the beaches was lovely even if most beaches were rocky. But on the whole I found Bali overrun with Australian rednecks and tattooed Europeans looking for cheap parties.

The advantage of Bali is that compared to the rest of Indonesia, the infrastructure is much better. After having travelled in more pastoral parts of Indonesia you can appreciate the upsides to Bali, but that was having good coffee, Starbucks, and diet coke and more reliable food. Not "local culture" which seemed to be gimmicky for the tourists.

By the way, Bali is a predominately Hindu island, not Buddhist and especially not animist. Maybe that was what some local person's spiel in order to get tourist dollars out of your misplaced sympathies.

NP but Bali definitely has retained some animist beliefs in their religious practices:
https://kupubarongubud.com/balinese-culture-religion-gods-and-top-6-most-important-ceremonies/

BTW I love Bali for its spiritual qualities, music, art, kindness of the people, ride paddies, food...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Italy

Where did you go?

Rome and Naples. Total dumps

Naples is terrible, but if you think Rome is a dump you didn’t do it right.

Naples is fabulous!

Don’t think you’ve actually ever been to Naples.

I was just there this past June. Fantastic food, great art, several first rate museums, a definitely buzzing urban atmosphere. Sure, not for everyone, but calling it a dump is unsophisticated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

I don't live in New York, so maybe that's why I have a different perspective than you. There's fantastic food all over the US. Some of it is right here in my kitchen. We have fresh produce, great meat, great seafood, no end of restaurant selections of all cuisines. If you dine badly in the US, it's out of choice, not lack of availability.

And the same is true in other countries. There's plenty of dull food across Europe. There's plenty of tourist traps. It's always being smart with where you go and what you order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

You don’t know what you are talking about. There are plenty of tourist trap restaurants in Europe serving subpar food. It’s incredibly naive to think that just because it’s served in Europe, it must be good.

Yep. Was in Italy this spring. Had a couple fantastic meals and ended up at a couple subpar restaurants with less than inspiring food. The latter were in tourist areas. We ate there because better restaurants were too crowded and we were starving. It wasn’t the end of the world, but it was interesting having average Italian in Italy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

Can you give an example of an incredible dish you had in Europe? Nothing blew me away during my travels or was extremely different from what I can get in the US except for the Japanese desserts 15 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite honestly, you can get incredible food and views in the US without all the hassle. I'd put Big Sur, CA, much of the state of Washington, Sedona, AZ, and the 30a beaches against most international destinations.

Incredible food in the US is very hard to come by, [unless you have deep pockets to pay for the best restaurants] and I say this as a New Yorker with access to the best restaurants in the world. Our food industry sucks, and our ingredients are just not as good/fresh. Even our fruit is not as good as in other parts of the world, it is never quite as sweet and flavorful. Therefore, I suspect that those claiming that the food in Paris, Spain, Italy is not good have what I call that soda/burger palette…

I don’t disagree with you, but ending on the misuse of “palette” instead of the correct “palate” casts a slight pall over any claim to sophistication you might make.