Arlington "missing middle"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

There's nothing "free market" about zoning. Nor is there anything inherently "single family" about a given parcel of property, especially not in a free market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Well, most people don't want a house in that condition. (You can argue that people should want to take the time to buy old properties and fix them up, but it is a nightmare dealing with contractors in this area, so I get why people don't want to do it.)

But the PP is right -- there are tons of apartments and condos. I recently thought about renting in Arlington, and there were tons of options everywhere, and as you got further from metro (where MM housing would be), the rents went down significantly and there were even more empty units. I also looked at condos, and there were many condos in great condition for under $400K. It's just unclear to me what option is missing in the market that MM provides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Well, most people don't want a house in that condition. (You can argue that people should want to take the time to buy old properties and fix them up, but it is a nightmare dealing with contractors in this area, so I get why people don't want to do it.)

But the PP is right -- there are tons of apartments and condos. I recently thought about renting in Arlington, and there were tons of options everywhere, and as you got further from metro (where MM housing would be), the rents went down significantly and there were even more empty units. I also looked at condos, and there were many condos in great condition for under $400K. It's just unclear to me what option is missing in the market that MM provides.

"In that condition" what?

If it's actually unclear to you, then you haven't been listening to anything anybody has said in support of the missing-middle housing proposal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

Yes, we do. More supply invites more demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Well, most people don't want a house in that condition. (You can argue that people should want to take the time to buy old properties and fix them up, but it is a nightmare dealing with contractors in this area, so I get why people don't want to do it.)

But the PP is right -- there are tons of apartments and condos. I recently thought about renting in Arlington, and there were tons of options everywhere, and as you got further from metro (where MM housing would be), the rents went down significantly and there were even more empty units. I also looked at condos, and there were many condos in great condition for under $400K. It's just unclear to me what option is missing in the market that MM provides.

It’s in good condition!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Well, most people don't want a house in that condition. (You can argue that people should want to take the time to buy old properties and fix them up, but it is a nightmare dealing with contractors in this area, so I get why people don't want to do it.)

But the PP is right -- there are tons of apartments and condos. I recently thought about renting in Arlington, and there were tons of options everywhere, and as you got further from metro (where MM housing would be), the rents went down significantly and there were even more empty units. I also looked at condos, and there were many condos in great condition for under $400K. It's just unclear to me what option is missing in the market that MM provides.

"In that condition" what?

If it's actually unclear to you, then you haven't been listening to anything anybody has said in support of the missing-middle housing proposal.

Yeah, that house might get sold to a builder, though the sloped back lot might prevent that from happening. Otherwise, people don't want pink bathrooms, old kitchens, and wood-paneled walls.

And I guess it is unclear to me. Nothing about MM has been clear; it's been an exercise in obfuscation which is why a bunch of nonprofit-working apartment dwellers think it will get them affordable townhouses.

[Anonymous]

Most buyers lose out to builders because buyers are entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

Yes, we do. More supply invites more demand.

This is what gets me...MM supporters can't think more than 1 step ahead. Arlington stays expensive, Vienna gets the slightly cheaper home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

Yes, we do. More supply invites more demand.

NIMBY logic at its finest.

I don't know how you can spout this nonsense with a straight face. Just take the mask off, embrace it. "I don't want to build anything because I got mine and screw everyone else."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

Yes, we do. More supply invites more demand.

NIMBY logic at its finest.

I don't know how you can spout this nonsense with a straight face. Just take the mask off, embrace it. "I don't want to build anything because I got mine and screw everyone else."

Under Arlington County bulding code, a duplex is defined as one unit stacked on top of another. Neither side (include the Arlington County Board) understands that a stacked duplex will be cheaper than a semi-detached side by side housing units (which they refer to as a duplex). Except for the semi-detached and townhouses, the new units will be fee simple and sold primarily to owner occupants. The plexes are more likely to be sold to investors who can use them for passive income. Most will be rentals because of the problems with creating condo ownership with only 3 to 6 unit owners. Existing DC houses that were converted to 3 to 8 condo units have had horrible issues with rapidly increasing condo fees and homeowners who will not volunteer to be on the condo board.

We own 13 rental houses in Arlington. Builders have been after us to sell the for tear downs and new houses. We are waiting to see what they will pay after MM is passed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

Yes, we do. More supply invites more demand.

NIMBY logic at its finest.

I don't know how you can spout this nonsense with a straight face. Just take the mask off, embrace it. "I don't want to build anything because I got mine and screw everyone else."

So you’re just going to ignore the post literally right above you?

Induced demand is a thing. It applies to building highways. It applies to building homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but at minimum, there will be more of them. And we know the relationship between supply, demand, and price. That's the way the free market works, right?

Yes, we do. More supply invites more demand.

NIMBY logic at its finest.

I don't know how you can spout this nonsense with a straight face. Just take the mask off, embrace it. "I don't want to build anything because I got mine and screw everyone else."

Under Arlington County bulding code, a duplex is defined as one unit stacked on top of another. Neither side (include the Arlington County Board) understands that a stacked duplex will be cheaper than a semi-detached side by side housing units (which they refer to as a duplex). Except for the semi-detached and townhouses, the new units will be fee simple and sold primarily to owner occupants. The plexes are more likely to be sold to investors who can use them for passive income. Most will be rentals because of the problems with creating condo ownership with only 3 to 6 unit owners. Existing DC houses that were converted to 3 to 8 condo units have had horrible issues with rapidly increasing condo fees and homeowners who will not volunteer to be on the condo board.

We own 13 rental houses in Arlington. Builders have been after us to sell the for tear downs and new houses. We are waiting to see what they will pay after MM is passed.

PP-interesting point about costs. When talking with a builder who does a lot of work in our neighborhood, he said that stacked housing is more expensive to build than side-by-side, but that both are more costly and less return than house. Don't know how accurate that is, but I wonder if the county will have to provide incentives to builders to get them to build "affordable" housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Well, most people don't want a house in that condition. (You can argue that people should want to take the time to buy old properties and fix them up, but it is a nightmare dealing with contractors in this area, so I get why people don't want to do it.)

But the PP is right -- there are tons of apartments and condos. I recently thought about renting in Arlington, and there were tons of options everywhere, and as you got further from metro (where MM housing would be), the rents went down significantly and there were even more empty units. I also looked at condos, and there were many condos in great condition for under $400K. It's just unclear to me what option is missing in the market that MM provides.

"In that condition" what?

If it's actually unclear to you, then you haven't been listening to anything anybody has said in support of the missing-middle housing proposal.

Yeah, that house might get sold to a builder, though the sloped back lot might prevent that from happening. Otherwise, people don't want pink bathrooms, old kitchens, and wood-paneled walls.

And I guess it is unclear to me. Nothing about MM has been clear; it's been an exercise in obfuscation which is why a bunch of nonprofit-working apartment dwellers think it will get them affordable townhouses.

WTAF. We are destroying the fabric of our neighborhoods because people can’t live with pink bathrooms for a spell till they can swap out the fixtures and retile?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MM is a solution looking for a problem.

Building 6-plex apartments on single family lots isn't the solution. Arlington has plenty of apartments. What everyone wants is a single family home in Arlington but just can't afford it. So, sorry, but that's the way the free market works.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/651-S-Greenbrier-St-Arlington-VA-22204/12090510_zpid/

This is $820k. Are the proposed duplexes and THs really going to be priced lower than that?

Well, most people don't want a house in that condition. (You can argue that people should want to take the time to buy old properties and fix them up, but it is a nightmare dealing with contractors in this area, so I get why people don't want to do it.)

But the PP is right -- there are tons of apartments and condos. I recently thought about renting in Arlington, and there were tons of options everywhere, and as you got further from metro (where MM housing would be), the rents went down significantly and there were even more empty units. I also looked at condos, and there were many condos in great condition for under $400K. It's just unclear to me what option is missing in the market that MM provides.

"In that condition" what?

If it's actually unclear to you, then you haven't been listening to anything anybody has said in support of the missing-middle housing proposal.

Yeah, that house might get sold to a builder, though the sloped back lot might prevent that from happening. Otherwise, people don't want pink bathrooms, old kitchens, and wood-paneled walls.

And I guess it is unclear to me. Nothing about MM has been clear; it's been an exercise in obfuscation which is why a bunch of nonprofit-working apartment dwellers think it will get them affordable townhouses.

WTAF. We are destroying the fabric of our neighborhoods because people can’t live with pink bathrooms for a spell till they can swap out the fixtures and retile?

It’s actually a stated goal of the YIMBYs to destroy the fabric of SFH neighborhoods and to not only create “affordable” housing, but to bring down the values of existing homes in those neighborhoods. The destruction of property values isn’t a bug. To them, it’s a feature.

If you doubt it, please just do a little of your own research into their groups.