Middle school magnets - criteria-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have intel on how DCCAPS/AEI will fill slots for selected students who decline the lottery? DD's form says "additional lotteries will be held when vacancies occur" - wondering how this works?

I think they just re-lottery the kids in the pool and contact families who get a spot that way. You only get notified if you get a spot.

[Anonymous]

I'm by no means an expert on this but I remember and years past people mentioned getting off the list in both June and again in August.

[Anonymous]

Our DC was offered a spot in late March, presumably in the second (or third?) round of the lottery. We are not in-bounds for TPMS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just got an email from TPMS that my kid is in!! Notification letters are also on ParentVue, which is great because our mail had not arrived.

Kid was in the pool for both lotteries, accepted at TPMS which is his home school.

I think a certain percentage of spots at TPMS are reserved for home school students. I am not sure if it's the same for Eastern.

25 are set aside for those in the TPMS catchment, so there is something of a separate lottery for them (same criteria, different pool). I think the ratio of seats to total MS population ends up being about 3 times greater.

That sounds really wrong. The odds of getting in have to be significantly higher.
TPMS has roughly 380 kids in each grade each year. If the top 15 percent are in the pool that's 57 kids. If there are 25 inbound set-aside seats that's a 44 percent chance of getting in!

You'd need to back out the 100 non-catchment magnet seats, so 25 of 280, or about 9 percent of the overall catchment population gets in. That compares to 100 seats there for over 7000 6th grade students from the rest of the lower portion of the county, closer to 1.5 percent of the population. So it's about 6 times more likely to end up in the magnet if you are within the TPMS bounds. That's without considering the relative proportions of those who might qualify based on grades, reading level and locally-normed MAP percentiles (the result is less than the top 15% of MAP scorers). Your estimate of an over 44% chance for pool qualifiers may be on the low side.

As a PP said, it was done that way to make TP a more attractive place to buy back when the program was set up. Problem is, a good portion of the SFH area in TP already was desirable, and was the most likely place for folks magnet-hunting to land. I think it's also outlived its purpose. Politics. What's really a shame, though, is that they didn't expand the program to meet the need, or even to keep pace with population growth.

The set aside for Eastern was smaller (12), but King and Clemente had 25 in-catchment reserved seats to compare with only 50 for out-of-catchment. A real head-scratcher was the set-aside for Potomac for the Chinese Immersion program. Did they need their area made more attractive?
Was it to assuage the already-well-to-do about the influx of hoi palloi from out-of-bounds? Those with outsized influence get everything...

Interesting discussion. You are right about taking out the magnet kids so you have more like 280 TPMS kids in-bounds. 15 percent of that is 42 kids. 25 spots for 42 kids in the lottery means that 60 percent get in. Could this be correct? 60 percent of kids in the TPMS catchment area with lottery qualifying scores get into the magnet?

No that's not right. Look at the at a glance #s. It's more than 280.

As an inboundary parent, I can tell you it's not that clear there are precisely 25 in boundary spots. In years past I had heard there were typically around 15 kids from PBES about half of which came from the CES, but in the first year of the lottery, for example, we only knew of 5 or 6 kids in total that were selected from PBES. Maybe the lottery selected the other 20 from the other TPMS in boundary school, you got me. Lotteries are funny that way.

The wait pool may pull more acceptances from inbounds kids. That's how it is for all the magnets in that area. The original admits may be more geographically diverse but by the time the kids show up in the fall it more skewed towards families that live closer to the schools.

At the time of selection, we had no idea who was selected. The numbers I used from PBES were based on what we observed the following fall after the wait list selections. We only knew of maybe a half dozen kids from PBES that year.

Why would you think you’d know all the PBES kids selected? Half a dozen sounds like a lot to me to know personally. There are about 220 kids per grade. Basically you mean that about half a dozen kids off the same socio economic status as you and the same social circles got in. That says nothing of the other 19 kids.

There are only 3 classes of compacted math at PBES each year, and by grade 5 most kids know all the kids in their math classes and well kids talk...

Not to mention, after having spent K-5 with those same 220 kids, you get to know most of them...

This is so untrue. PBES is incredibly unwelcoming with very little community.

My kids started there when we moved to the area and made many friends and found it incredibly welcoming. Most people love it.

It’s huge. Kids move classes every year and leave their friends behind and have to make new ones the following year and there is no parent community associated with the school at all. The links the kids make are apparently in scouts or kids adventures or on their block, not at school - leaving out kids who aren’t part of those activities. Likewise for the parents.

But let’s not sidetrack this discussion. The point is there is a 25 place set aside and just because you don’t know 25 kids it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I had around 600 kids in my HS graduating class and knew most of them by the time I graduated. Even at TPES/PBES with 25 different kids in your class each year you get to know most of them after 6 years.

Assuming you are with them for six years. The PTA doesn’t even have any efforts to welcome new families - just the basic stuff.

I think that during the pandemic the PTAs were barely staying afloat doing all of the basic service things they needed to do.
I also think ANYONE can volunteer: even new parents!
As for welcoming efforts, we were new at TPES, and we explicitly asked for a family mentor and for the teacher to help pick some friends for our kid. Both requests were met quickly and the outcomes were more than welcoming (pre-pandemic)...but we asked for them!

TPMS PTA has a welcome picnic for 6th graders each year. I was on the board pre-covid, and, maybe it took a break during the worst, but it is probably back on. PTAs are full swing now and need help. Volunteer!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what is AEI?

The group within MCPS that is responsible for what they used to call gifted education.

And what do they do ?
Can they fix the problem of Advanced English for all if you weren't lucky enough to get into Eastern?

No, because Advanced English is a course that students do not need to be gifted to handle. An accelerated English course doesn’t exist outside of Magnet, IB, and AP.

[Anonymous]

Trying to decide between Humanities Magnet and Argyle's program. Any previous experience with Argyle? I'd love to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trying to decide between Humanities Magnet and Argyle's program. Any previous experience with Argyle? I'd love to hear.

What are you looking for in a MS experience for your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to decide between Humanities Magnet and Argyle's program. Any previous experience with Argyle? I'd love to hear.

What are you looking for in a MS experience for your child?

A good peer group with time not wasted on behavior issues and messing around. We liked the unique tech opportunities at Argyle. But the criteria based peer group for the Humanities program might be more inspiring in the long run. Just hard to make a decision when it makes it so the other is not a possibility any longer.

[Anonymous]

This may be deeper in the thread and I missed it, but what percentage of in-pool kids are accepted to Eastern or TPMS?

Context: we don't currently live in MCPS but would consider moving back for middle school. I attended Eastern and IB magnets and had a wonderful experience. But it's not worth moving if my kids have a low chance of getting in.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trying to decide between Humanities Magnet and Argyle's program. Any previous experience with Argyle? I'd love to hear.

They are very different programs.

What does your child enjoy doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may be deeper in the thread and I missed it, but what percentage of in-pool kids are accepted to Eastern or TPMS?

Context: we don't currently live in MCPS but would consider moving back for middle school. I attended Eastern and IB magnets and had a wonderful experience. But it's not worth moving if my kids have a low chance of getting in.

Thank you!

No one knows. If you move to Takoma park and are inbound for TPMS and in the lottery for the math, science computer science magnet there you have the highest chance of being selected. The top 15 percent are in the pool and the total population inbound is about 250, so you can assume about 37 in the pool of which 25 get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to decide between Humanities Magnet and Argyle's program. Any previous experience with Argyle? I'd love to hear.

What are you looking for in a MS experience for your child?

A good peer group with time not wasted on behavior issues and messing around. We liked the unique tech opportunities at Argyle. But the criteria based peer group for the Humanities program might be more inspiring in the long run. Just hard to make a decision when it makes it so the other is not a possibility any longer.

Eastern would be a better fit. The peer group is strong and many tend to go onto HS magnets. But make sure your kid is ready to spend their time on humanities course work and it is pretty intense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may be deeper in the thread and I missed it, but what percentage of in-pool kids are accepted to Eastern or TPMS?

Context: we don't currently live in MCPS but would consider moving back for middle school. I attended Eastern and IB magnets and had a wonderful experience. But it's not worth moving if my kids have a low chance of getting in.

Thank you!

If you are moving purely for the purposes of the magnet middle school, its risky because of the lottery process. You might be better off moving into the potomac area (if its in your budget) as the middle schools there are just as good and will be your assigned school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just got an email from TPMS that my kid is in!! Notification letters are also on ParentVue, which is great because our mail had not arrived.

Kid was in the pool for both lotteries, accepted at TPMS which is his home school.

I think a certain percentage of spots at TPMS are reserved for home school students. I am not sure if it's the same for Eastern.

25 are set aside for those in the TPMS catchment, so there is something of a separate lottery for them (same criteria, different pool). I think the ratio of seats to total MS population ends up being about 3 times greater.

That sounds really wrong. The odds of getting in have to be significantly higher.
TPMS has roughly 380 kids in each grade each year. If the top 15 percent are in the pool that's 57 kids. If there are 25 inbound set-aside seats that's a 44 percent chance of getting in!

You'd need to back out the 100 non-catchment magnet seats, so 25 of 280, or about 9 percent of the overall catchment population gets in. That compares to 100 seats there for over 7000 6th grade students from the rest of the lower portion of the county, closer to 1.5 percent of the population. So it's about 6 times more likely to end up in the magnet if you are within the TPMS bounds. That's without considering the relative proportions of those who might qualify based on grades, reading level and locally-normed MAP percentiles (the result is less than the top 15% of MAP scorers). Your estimate of an over 44% chance for pool qualifiers may be on the low side.

As a PP said, it was done that way to make TP a more attractive place to buy back when the program was set up. Problem is, a good portion of the SFH area in TP already was desirable, and was the most likely place for folks magnet-hunting to land. I think it's also outlived its purpose. Politics. What's really a shame, though, is that they didn't expand the program to meet the need, or even to keep pace with population growth.

The set aside for Eastern was smaller (12), but King and Clemente had 25 in-catchment reserved seats to compare with only 50 for out-of-catchment. A real head-scratcher was the set-aside for Potomac for the Chinese Immersion program. Did they need their area made more attractive?
Was it to assuage the already-well-to-do about the influx of hoi palloi from out-of-bounds? Those with outsized influence get everything...

Interesting discussion. You are right about taking out the magnet kids so you have more like 280 TPMS kids in-bounds. 15 percent of that is 42 kids. 25 spots for 42 kids in the lottery means that 60 percent get in. Could this be correct? 60 percent of kids in the TPMS catchment area with lottery qualifying scores get into the magnet?

No that's not right. Look at the at a glance #s. It's more than 280.

As an inboundary parent, I can tell you it's not that clear there are precisely 25 in boundary spots. In years past I had heard there were typically around 15 kids from PBES about half of which came from the CES, but in the first year of the lottery, for example, we only knew of 5 or 6 kids in total that were selected from PBES. Maybe the lottery selected the other 20 from the other TPMS in boundary school, you got me. Lotteries are funny that way.

The wait pool may pull more acceptances from inbounds kids. That's how it is for all the magnets in that area. The original admits may be more geographically diverse but by the time the kids show up in the fall it more skewed towards families that live closer to the schools.

At the time of selection, we had no idea who was selected. The numbers I used from PBES were based on what we observed the following fall after the wait list selections. We only knew of maybe a half dozen kids from PBES that year.

Why would you think you’d know all the PBES kids selected? Half a dozen sounds like a lot to me to know personally. There are about 220 kids per grade. Basically you mean that about half a dozen kids off the same socio economic status as you and the same social circles got in. That says nothing of the other 19 kids.

There are only 3 classes of compacted math at PBES each year, and by grade 5 most kids know all the kids in their math classes and well kids talk...

Not to mention, after having spent K-5 with those same 220 kids, you get to know most of them...

This is so untrue. PBES is incredibly unwelcoming with very little community.

My kids started there when we moved to the area and made many friends and found it incredibly welcoming. Most people love it.

It’s huge. Kids move classes every year and leave their friends behind and have to make new ones the following year and there is no parent community associated with the school at all. The links the kids make are apparently in scouts or kids adventures or on their block, not at school - leaving out kids who aren’t part of those activities. Likewise for the parents.

But let’s not sidetrack this discussion. The point is there is a 25 place set aside and just because you don’t know 25 kids it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I had around 600 kids in my HS graduating class and knew most of them by the time I graduated. Even at TPES/PBES with 25 different kids in your class each year you get to know most of them after 6 years.

Assuming you are with them for six years. The PTA doesn’t even have any efforts to welcome new families - just the basic stuff.

I think that during the pandemic the PTAs were barely staying afloat doing all of the basic service things they needed to do.
I also think ANYONE can volunteer: even new parents!
As for welcoming efforts, we were new at TPES, and we explicitly asked for a family mentor and for the teacher to help pick some friends for our kid. Both requests were met quickly and the outcomes were more than welcoming (pre-pandemic)...but we asked for them!

I was also on the pta board at TPMS pre pandemic into the pandemic. We did a lot. We welcomed parents at information sessions for new students and provided information. As a PP said, we had a 6th grade welcome picnic. We also helped new parents access and navigate ParentVue, sponsored educational entertainment for outdoor ed (which also helped new students acclimate), funded several teacher and parent lead projects (robotics, mental health initiatives,
creative projects, etc), helped FARMs families, helped with STEAM night, supported our staff, advocated for our students/familes/school at a county level, etc etc.
Our big fundraiser (Books and Basketball) also functioned as a community connection. Parents, students and staff worked together to make a fun night. We invited alums (at Blair) to perform and reached out to 5th graders to attend. We also had activities for families in the community the following day with TPMS student entertainment.

I don't know if things have changed, but it sounds like some of the people commenting know little about the PTA and should get involved. The PTA is parents, we should all be pitching in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just got an email from TPMS that my kid is in!! Notification letters are also on ParentVue, which is great because our mail had not arrived.

Kid was in the pool for both lotteries, accepted at TPMS which is his home school.

I think a certain percentage of spots at TPMS are reserved for home school students. I am not sure if it's the same for Eastern.

25 are set aside for those in the TPMS catchment, so there is something of a separate lottery for them (same criteria, different pool). I think the ratio of seats to total MS population ends up being about 3 times greater.

That sounds really wrong. The odds of getting in have to be significantly higher.
TPMS has roughly 380 kids in each grade each year. If the top 15 percent are in the pool that's 57 kids. If there are 25 inbound set-aside seats that's a 44 percent chance of getting in!

You'd need to back out the 100 non-catchment magnet seats, so 25 of 280, or about 9 percent of the overall catchment population gets in. That compares to 100 seats there for over 7000 6th grade students from the rest of the lower portion of the county, closer to 1.5 percent of the population. So it's about 6 times more likely to end up in the magnet if you are within the TPMS bounds. That's without considering the relative proportions of those who might qualify based on grades, reading level and locally-normed MAP percentiles (the result is less than the top 15% of MAP scorers). Your estimate of an over 44% chance for pool qualifiers may be on the low side.

As a PP said, it was done that way to make TP a more attractive place to buy back when the program was set up. Problem is, a good portion of the SFH area in TP already was desirable, and was the most likely place for folks magnet-hunting to land. I think it's also outlived its purpose. Politics. What's really a shame, though, is that they didn't expand the program to meet the need, or even to keep pace with population growth.

The set aside for Eastern was smaller (12), but King and Clemente had 25 in-catchment reserved seats to compare with only 50 for out-of-catchment. A real head-scratcher was the set-aside for Potomac for the Chinese Immersion program. Did they need their area made more attractive?
Was it to assuage the already-well-to-do about the influx of hoi palloi from out-of-bounds? Those with outsized influence get everything...

Interesting discussion. You are right about taking out the magnet kids so you have more like 280 TPMS kids in-bounds. 15 percent of that is 42 kids. 25 spots for 42 kids in the lottery means that 60 percent get in. Could this be correct? 60 percent of kids in the TPMS catchment area with lottery qualifying scores get into the magnet?

No that's not right. Look at the at a glance #s. It's more than 280.

As an inboundary parent, I can tell you it's not that clear there are precisely 25 in boundary spots. In years past I had heard there were typically around 15 kids from PBES about half of which came from the CES, but in the first year of the lottery, for example, we only knew of 5 or 6 kids in total that were selected from PBES. Maybe the lottery selected the other 20 from the other TPMS in boundary school, you got me. Lotteries are funny that way.

The wait pool may pull more acceptances from inbounds kids. That's how it is for all the magnets in that area. The original admits may be more geographically diverse but by the time the kids show up in the fall it more skewed towards families that live closer to the schools.

At the time of selection, we had no idea who was selected. The numbers I used from PBES were based on what we observed the following fall after the wait list selections. We only knew of maybe a half dozen kids from PBES that year.

Why would you think you’d know all the PBES kids selected? Half a dozen sounds like a lot to me to know personally. There are about 220 kids per grade. Basically you mean that about half a dozen kids off the same socio economic status as you and the same social circles got in. That says nothing of the other 19 kids.

There are only 3 classes of compacted math at PBES each year, and by grade 5 most kids know all the kids in their math classes and well kids talk...

Not to mention, after having spent K-5 with those same 220 kids, you get to know most of them...

This is so untrue. PBES is incredibly unwelcoming with very little community.

My kids started there when we moved to the area and made many friends and found it incredibly welcoming. Most people love it.

It’s huge. Kids move classes every year and leave their friends behind and have to make new ones the following year and there is no parent community associated with the school at all. The links the kids make are apparently in scouts or kids adventures or on their block, not at school - leaving out kids who aren’t part of those activities. Likewise for the parents.

But let’s not sidetrack this discussion. The point is there is a 25 place set aside and just because you don’t know 25 kids it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I had around 600 kids in my HS graduating class and knew most of them by the time I graduated. Even at TPES/PBES with 25 different kids in your class each year you get to know most of them after 6 years.

Assuming you are with them for six years. The PTA doesn’t even have any efforts to welcome new families - just the basic stuff.

I think that during the pandemic the PTAs were barely staying afloat doing all of the basic service things they needed to do.
I also think ANYONE can volunteer: even new parents!
As for welcoming efforts, we were new at TPES, and we explicitly asked for a family mentor and for the teacher to help pick some friends for our kid. Both requests were met quickly and the outcomes were more than welcoming (pre-pandemic)...but we asked for them!

I was also on the pta board at TPMS pre pandemic into the pandemic. We did a lot. We welcomed parents at information sessions for new students and provided information. As a PP said, we had a 6th grade welcome picnic. We also helped new parents access and navigate ParentVue, sponsored educational entertainment for outdoor ed (which also helped new students acclimate), funded several teacher and parent lead projects (robotics, mental health initiatives,
creative projects, etc), helped FARMs families, helped with STEAM night, supported our staff, advocated for our students/familes/school at a county level, etc etc.
Our big fundraiser (Books and Basketball) also functioned as a community connection. Parents, students and staff worked together to make a fun night. We invited alums (at Blair) to perform and reached out to 5th graders to attend. We also had activities for families in the community the following day with TPMS student entertainment.

I don't know if things have changed, but it sounds like some of the people commenting know little about the PTA and should get involved. The PTA is parents, we should all be pitching in.

Im the PP who mentioned that PBES is unwelcoming and has little community. I didn’t comment on TPMS so I’m not sure why you are defensive about TPMS. What’s missing from the Takoma park schools is any way to reach out to new families who don’t join at kindergarten. They are also far too large to have a strong school community.