Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Did you see any videos portraying rape on the Hamas channels? I am genuinely curious.

Your assessment of my sentiments is entirely incorrect. I have never apologized for rape or torture, and I clearly call sexual abuse "horrific and disgusting," so your conclusions are unfounded. When I point out that the claims of babies being beheaded and hung on clotheslines are false (as in, people lied), this does not mean I don't care about beheading babies or hanging them up with the laundry (in truth, I strenuously object to roasting children or pinning them, either dead or alive, to clotheslines.) It means I have a commitment to the truth. Similarly, I am not detracting from the severity of rape when I point out that Israel has very little credibility, so it would be naive to blindly believe everything it claims (I did acknowledge that I think some of the claims are probably accurate). Perhaps you could try to separate my disinclination to embrace lies as support for whatever is being lied about?

If someone tells you that they met Elvis last Monday and Bigfoot last Tuesday, you could be excused for being a little skeptical if they told you they met Justin Bieber on Wednesday. While it's possible the latest claim is true, one might wonder if this person is prone to hallucinating or is perhaps just plain telling porkie pies.

If I may say so, it seems to me people with an agenda are being rather theatrical and performative about some of Israel's claims. We were all expected to work ourselves into a lather, despise Palestinians, embrace Israel unconditionally, celebrate massacring children in Gaza, and fall about clutching our pearls and collapsing on the fainting couch because Hamas baked a baby in an oven and hung dead babies on a clothesline, except ... that didn't happen. Why would we be stupid enough to blindly believe anything else Israel claims after that? And why would proof of such extreme stupidity be "chilling" or "vicious"? And why would one's very well-founded skepticism indicate lack of sympathy for the victims in the unlikely event something Israel claims actually turns out to be true?

Terrible, cruel, and unjust things undoubtedly happened on 10/7. I don't think anyone denies that. However, the Israeli authorities lie so compulsively that one would have to be extremely dull-witted or childlike not to want some independent verification of anything they tell you.

That’s a lot of words to say “I’m a vicious anti-Semite who freely uses the most ancient of anti-Semitic tropes.”

Do you realize just how awful you sound to rational people who aren’t gleefully stewing in anti-Semitism day in and day out? I’m genuinely curious, to quote you.

- non-Jew, since obviously if I were Jewish you’d start going on about the protocols of Zion or whatever. And I feel dirty even talking to you, like I’m giving credence to someone who would have watched the Hamas videos for fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, Israelis aren’t committing genocide. They have offered a two state solution and a ceasefire unless Hamas gives back the hostages. Hamas is hiding within the Palestinian population and using its own people as human shields. Israelis are definitely killing some innocents but it is not genocide.

Where is this Israeli proposal hiding?

Israel has offered a two state solution to Palestine many times in the past 30 years, including in 2000 and 2008. The problem is (1) how to divide up the land in a way that satisfies both sides, and (2) many Palestinians and certainly Hamas wants all of Israel, not a two state solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Did you see any videos portraying rape on the Hamas channels? I am genuinely curious.

Your assessment of my sentiments is entirely incorrect. I have never apologized for rape or torture, and I clearly call sexual abuse "horrific and disgusting," so your conclusions are unfounded. When I point out that the claims of babies being beheaded and hung on clotheslines are false (as in, people lied), this does not mean I don't care about beheading babies or hanging them up with the laundry (in truth, I strenuously object to roasting children or pinning them, either dead or alive, to clotheslines.) It means I have a commitment to the truth. Similarly, I am not detracting from the severity of rape when I point out that Israel has very little credibility, so it would be naive to blindly believe everything it claims (I did acknowledge that I think some of the claims are probably accurate). Perhaps you could try to separate my disinclination to embrace lies as support for whatever is being lied about?

If someone tells you that they met Elvis last Monday and Bigfoot last Tuesday, you could be excused for being a little skeptical if they told you they met Justin Bieber on Wednesday. While it's possible the latest claim is true, one might wonder if this person is prone to hallucinating or is perhaps just plain telling porkie pies.

If I may say so, it seems to me people with an agenda are being rather theatrical and performative about some of Israel's claims. We were all expected to work ourselves into a lather, despise Palestinians, embrace Israel unconditionally, celebrate massacring children in Gaza, and fall about clutching our pearls and collapsing on the fainting couch because Hamas baked a baby in an oven and hung dead babies on a clothesline, except ... that didn't happen. Why would we be stupid enough to blindly believe anything else Israel claims after that? And why would proof of such extreme stupidity be "chilling" or "vicious"? And why would one's very well-founded skepticism indicate lack of sympathy for the victims in the unlikely event something Israel claims actually turns out to be true?

Terrible, cruel, and unjust things undoubtedly happened on 10/7. I don't think anyone denies that. However, the Israeli authorities lie so compulsively that one would have to be extremely dull-witted or childlike not to want some independent verification of anything they tell you.

Mileikowsky will be remembered forever as a butcherous war criminal, and the most heinous pathological liar to lead a country in the first 1/2 of the 21st century.

Gotta hope that's true because we sure as heck don't want an even more heinous pathological liar to lead a country in the second 1/2 of the first 1/2 of the 21st century. Horrors! Putin is almost as bad, although I'm not sure he lies quite as much. Perhaps Putin is a little smarter about at least trying to maintain a veneer of credibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

DP: you may realize it or not, but views like above are pretty common among those who are registered members of one of the US' two large political parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

DP: you may realize it or not, but views like above are pretty common among those who are registered members of one of the US' two large political parties.

Yes, I know. It’s causing me to rethink my political alignment entirely, speaking as someone who was classified on the left when I did the Pew political alignment poll recently. People like the PP are terrifying and not people I can align with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Did you see any videos portraying rape on the Hamas channels? I am genuinely curious.

Your assessment of my sentiments is entirely incorrect. I have never apologized for rape or torture, and I clearly call sexual abuse "horrific and disgusting," so your conclusions are unfounded. When I point out that the claims of babies being beheaded and hung on clotheslines are false (as in, people lied), this does not mean I don't care about beheading babies or hanging them up with the laundry (in truth, I strenuously object to roasting children or pinning them, either dead or alive, to clotheslines.) It means I have a commitment to the truth. Similarly, I am not detracting from the severity of rape when I point out that Israel has very little credibility, so it would be naive to blindly believe everything it claims (I did acknowledge that I think some of the claims are probably accurate). Perhaps you could try to separate my disinclination to embrace lies as support for whatever is being lied about?

If someone tells you that they met Elvis last Monday and Bigfoot last Tuesday, you could be excused for being a little skeptical if they told you they met Justin Bieber on Wednesday. While it's possible the latest claim is true, one might wonder if this person is prone to hallucinating or is perhaps just plain telling porkie pies.

If I may say so, it seems to me people with an agenda are being rather theatrical and performative about some of Israel's claims. We were all expected to work ourselves into a lather, despise Palestinians, embrace Israel unconditionally, celebrate massacring children in Gaza, and fall about clutching our pearls and collapsing on the fainting couch because Hamas baked a baby in an oven and hung dead babies on a clothesline, except ... that didn't happen. Why would we be stupid enough to blindly believe anything else Israel claims after that? And why would proof of such extreme stupidity be "chilling" or "vicious"? And why would one's very well-founded skepticism indicate lack of sympathy for the victims in the unlikely event something Israel claims actually turns out to be true?

Terrible, cruel, and unjust things undoubtedly happened on 10/7. I don't think anyone denies that. However, the Israeli authorities lie so compulsively that one would have to be extremely dull-witted or childlike not to want some independent verification of anything they tell you.

That’s a lot of words to say “I’m a vicious anti-Semite who freely uses the most ancient of anti-Semitic tropes.”

Do you realize just how awful you sound to rational people who aren’t gleefully stewing in anti-Semitism day in and day out? I’m genuinely curious, to quote you.

- non-Jew, since obviously if I were Jewish you’d start going on about the protocols of Zion or whatever. And I feel dirty even talking to you, like I’m giving credence to someone who would have watched the Hamas videos for fun.

You may be surprised to learn that I am a secular Ashkenazi Jew, but that's neither here nor there. Many orthodox Jews oppose Zionism in general and the current Israeli government in particular. Don't let that get in the way of trying to win a cheap point by screeching about antisemitism (which is antisemitic in itself).

What is relevant is that nobody has answered my question about rape videos. Do they or don't they exist? And why do you throw up smokescreens of insults rather than trying to address my arguments? Well, we know why, but couldn't you at least try to be honest enough to address my actual statements instead of lying about them? When you so obviously lie about and misrepresent what I have said, why do you expect me to naively believe anything else you might say?

Nobody has addressed my point about the lying. Given that the 40 beheaded babies/baby baked in an oven/babies on clotheslines stories were, well, flat-out lies, why is is "antisemitic" to wonder how true similar stories might be? It's the lying, stupid. When someone lies and lies and then lies some more, you start to wonder about the credibility of every story they tell. Kind of like when someone screams "antisemitism" again and again and again some more, you start to wonder if maybe they're trying to bury the truth under all that faux indignation and hysteria. Prove me wrong. Show you have some integrity and explain to me why I should believe the chopped-off-breast story when so many other stories have turned out to be lies. What differentiates that story from the babies-on-clotheslines story? Why would it be unreasonable to want some sort of verification, given that so many of these stories turned out to be false?

And please don't tell me I'm "denying atrocities" because I "hate Jews" or any similar dishonest and evasive craziness. I acknowledge that atrocities occurred. I even said I think there were probably rapes and that rape is "horrific." I am not dismissing unverified claims. Some may very well be true. Under the circumstances, however, I would simply like to see some sort of authentication before I make up my mind one way or the other. What is your problem with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

DP: you may realize it or not, but views like above are pretty common among those who are registered members of one of the US' two large political parties.

Yes, I know. It’s causing me to rethink my political alignment entirely, speaking as someone who was classified on the left when I did the Pew political alignment poll recently. People like the PP are terrifying and not people I can align with.

Not only that, they moved from being a fringe group with little credibility and power to being a major faction with actual power in many cities and states, not in DC yet because the old generation still rules there...but the new waves of "advocates" and activists are indeed terrifying to any person with liberal, tolerant or simply decent views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

Israel does not represent all Jews. As a Jew, I find that deeply offensive and antisemitic. This is also an extremely dishonest claim (which disinclines me even more to believe any of your other claims). There are Jews, including devout and observant Jews, who oppose Zionism and the existence of Israel. Israel's survival is not necessary for the survival of all Jews. That's the dumbest argument you've made in a while, and that's saying something. As a Jew living in America, Israel's survival is not necessary for my own. I suspect the same is true for you. I have family in Canada, Europe, and Australia who feel the same way.

But we're getting off-topic, which is of course your goal. Let's be specific. When people talk about a country, they usually mean its leaders, its representatives. If I say Russia is malevolent, I'm not talking about your average Russian. I'm talking about Putin and his cronies -- Russia's representatives and decision-makers. Same with Israel. But I know by now that I'm wasting my time explaining the obvious to you. Like I said, you might find an elementary class in logic to be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

DP: you may realize it or not, but views like above are pretty common among those who are registered members of one of the US' two large political parties.

Yes, I know. It’s causing me to rethink my political alignment entirely, speaking as someone who was classified on the left when I did the Pew political alignment poll recently. People like the PP are terrifying and not people I can align with.

If this is a passive-aggressive attack on me (given that the more direct attacks are so easily repulsed), how would you know which party I belong to ("me" being the poster who things terrible atrocities occurred on 10/7, but would like some verification of specific claims, given that so many specific claims have turned out to be false). For the record, I'm an independent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

What’s tiring, in addition to getting through your word salad, is the continual doubt cast upon Israel regarding the events of 10/7 and this doubt justified by “Israel always lies”, “Israel propaganda”, etc. It precedes Netanyahu and this mentality is rooted in the sooooo tired trope of Jews lie/can’t be trusted/scheme. Give me a break with your outrage and the charge of antisemitism. If you critique Israel using antisemitic tropes, you’re engaging in antisemitism. Go figure!

Israel has been under constant attack for decades. Hamas has sworn to destroy all Jews - Israeli and otherwise. And yet it is Israel that is guilty of claiming it is a victim? Here again when the antisemitism … Jews always claiming to be the victims of atrocities and hate directed at them. So annoying, right?

Perhaps it’s your logic and grasp of morality and history that need some work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man, and straw man. This post is so straw-mannish and absurdly illogical that it actually made me laugh. It's sad but also hysterically funny seeing histrionics reaching for the smelling salts over imagined slights (or, more cynically, feigned indignation in service of an ignoble agenda).

So, no, I don't believe that no atrocities occurred on 10/7. My concerns about Israel have nothing to do with antisemitism (that trope is getting soooo tired) and everything to do with Israel's actual behavior. No I don't think Jews always lie. That Netanyahu and his henchmen lie pathologically is a truism. I don't know why you want to generalize from Netanyahu to all Jews (are you an antisemite? Shame on you!). No, I don't think Hamas always tells the truth. No, there would not be knee-jerk support for any other nation in the world if it conducted itself as Israel is currently doing.

Before firing off unfounded and irrational accusations of antisemitism, perhaps you could consider taking a course in logic?

DP. You are backtracking. In your vile posts, you talked repeatedly about how Israel lies. Not Netanyahu. Not even just Netanyahu’s government. You said Israel, which means Jews unless you wish Israel off the face of the earth, which I suspect you do. But in that case, you’re obviously a violent antisemite.

It’s people like you who remind me that this is a fight for survival not just for Israel but for all Jews. Your posts are absolutely chilling.

I honestly think his posts are fake. There's not a person there. There's an assignment. Discredit the other "side" and push, normalize anti-Semetic language and ideas, all under the guise of reason. There's a certain pattern to the way they argue when it's an assignment, not a real person with a belief... And that poster is checking every one of the boxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

They're not "our" girls, they're Israel's. Why don't you hold Israel accountable for their lack of outcry over Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein?

You don’t understand the context. There was a huge furor and rally by Americans including Michelle Obama for NIGERIAN girls kidnapped by boko haram. They aren’t “our” girls too, so why did Americans speak out so loudly about that and not about severely brutalized Jewish women? You just sound ignorant.

Thank you. And, many Jews have spoken out against Weinstein and Epstein.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I couldn't get through the NY Times article. The brutalization of women was planned and carried out in multiple locations on 10/7. Not only is Hamas and its supporters a death cult but it is filled with rapists.

Where were the protests, the signs, the marches for these women? Michelle "bring back our girls" Obama? Susan Sarandon? UN Women? It's like rape has become fashionable again when the victims are Jews.

The sexual abuse of women on 10/7 or on any other day is horrific and disgusting. I'm sure everyone here wishes none of that ever happened.

It's sad that the initial reports were met with guarded skepticism, but consider that we were also told that 40 babies were beheaded, a baby was baked in an oven, and dead babies were found hanging on a clothesline. These stories proved to be untrue. The more lurid and preposterous the claim, the less likely it was to be true, even though some assertions were allegedly based on "eyewitness testimonies" (which were later retracted). We also heard that Palestinian militants had burned many people alive. It turned out, and Israelis who observed the events of the day confirmed this, that in fact the IDF had done most, if not all, of the burning, including burning hundreds of Palestinian militants to death (as has been pointed out, they "did not burn themselves").

Unfortunately, Israel is currently led by some ethically challenged people. To put it bluntly, they lie. A lot. Given Israel's lack of credibility, it would be naive to unquestioningly accept any of its assertions. Israel's moral challenges also make it difficult to believe so-called confessions of rape by captured militants. Israel beats "confessions" out of its detainees, so these "admissions" cannot be assumed to be valid in every case.

Additionally, there is no available forensic evidence of rape. In a Times of Israel report, it is claimed that "physical evidence of sexual assault was not collected from corpses by Israel’s overtaxed morgue facilities." Additionally, "the government has not released explicit footage or pressed rape survivors to share their stories. Nor have the forensic services released formal reports on whether their findings were consistent with sexual abuse."
(https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-and-urgent-need-to-id-bodies-evidence-of-hamass-october-7-rapes-slips-away/amp/).

I think it likely that, sadly, women were raped on 10/7. I think it equally likely that some of the rape stories we have been told are fabricated. It would be entirely out of character for Israel not to lie about rape, given that it has lied about virtually everything else and is particularly prone to lying about being victimized.

Wow. To me, a non-Israeli and non-Jew, this just reads as horrific sexual rape and torture apologia. I find your entire screed genuinely chilling. You probably don’t even care how vicious you sound, but it’s awful.

You know what I did immediately after 10/7? I went to Hamas’ own telegram channels and watched their own videos, which they kept up until they realized how bad it made them look. You obviously did not and obviously don’t care anyhow, given that the victims were Jewish. I will never forget what I saw. Never.

Same,PP. Terrible videos all over the internet from Hamas itself and this poster does not believe that atrocities. Not to mention the way the poster characterizes Israel in the most anti-Semitic ways.

So interesting how the same posters who say everything Israel / Jews say are lies (because of course Jews can’t be trusted), but everything Hamas, a depraved terrorist organization, says must be true. Even though we know Hamas has repeatedly lied and misrepresented events.

If Israel was any other nation in the world, they would have support for their defense in the wake of 10/7.

I read something recently.about thr history of antisemitism and its spread around the world. It has helped me evaluate the posts in this thread. So many antisemitic tropes being shared here. Not surprising.