APS budget is unacceptable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not see any difference between paying Fairfax $25k for 18 students and giving those same kids a $25k voucher to go use at the school of their choosing. What about the kids who are really into art? Or music? Or writing?

Don’t give me the “governors school so we all pay for it” line. That is ridiculous. Guess what? We all pay for all kinds of things with state money that we don’t actually get to use. Like, for example, we all pay for private schools which are often non profits or affiliated with religions and thus exempt for taxation. We could be earning tax income from them but we don’t. I’m just saying that the fact that TJ gets some State money does not mean that APS should spend millions on a handful of kids.

Where are the area's governor's schools for art, music, and writing that Arlington is allowed to send their students to?
TJHSST actually has a very strong music program. Marching band and cololorguards are very competitive. Much more competitive than what Arlington schools offer.

They are in the summer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Ok then let’s call it a way to reduce class sizes.

I can see why you are anti-TJ, you seem to be pretty anti-math. If x number fewer kids go to a school, they don't reduce class sizes. Class sizes are determined by planning factors. The planning factors are established by the school board and listed in a book/manual.

If the planning factor for a class is 25 and 21 kids show up, they get a teacher. If 29 kids sign up, they will divide them into two sections. Sending 25 kids to TJ (from three high schools) doesn't change the planning factors--it might have a tiny tiny effect on how many sections of a class are offered in a school.

This is why the finance department doesn't have precise estimates of every possible budget scenario (especially when it comes to option schools) and goes by averages. They can't tell you the exact effect changes would have on staffing because it has to do with what home schools those kids are assigned to, what grades they are in, how close to the planning factors those grades are already--or the specific classes those kids would enroll in, whether those kids would be bus riders or not at their home schools, etc. etc.

We're talking about a $825 million budget here. The total cost of sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ is less than 0.1% of the budget, so the marginal difference in cost (up or down) between sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ versus keeping them in Arlington is like a hundredth of a percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Ok then let’s call it a way to reduce class sizes.

I can see why you are anti-TJ, you seem to be pretty anti-math. If x number fewer kids go to a school, they don't reduce class sizes. Class sizes are determined by planning factors. The planning factors are established by the school board and listed in a book/manual.

If the planning factor for a class is 25 and 21 kids show up, they get a teacher. If 29 kids sign up, they will divide them into two sections. Sending 25 kids to TJ (from three high schools) doesn't change the planning factors--it might have a tiny tiny effect on how many sections of a class are offered in a school.

This is why the finance department doesn't have precise estimates of every possible budget scenario (especially when it comes to option schools) and goes by averages. They can't tell you the exact effect changes would have on staffing because it has to do with what home schools those kids are assigned to, what grades they are in, how close to the planning factors those grades are already--or the specific classes those kids would enroll in, whether those kids would be bus riders or not at their home schools, etc. etc.

We're talking about a $825 million budget here. The total cost of sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ is less than 0.1% of the budget, so the marginal difference in cost (up or down) between sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ versus keeping them in Arlington is like a hundredth of a percent.

Yup. This whole thread is discussing negligible line items.

What we really need is full funding from Youngkin and the county.

[Anonymous]

ACPS stopped sending kids to TJ about 12 years ago. Every time the budget comes up there is an outcry that schools aren’t funded enough or well enough. So kids not going to TJ won’t fix a budget issue.

TJ limits the number of kids surrounding counties and cities can send. And then each county or city limits the budget allocated so further limiting the number of slots. APS could reduce their slots at TJ but it’s maybe it’s a case of you give them up you don’t get them back. Also I think it goes unnoticed by FCPS parents a lot of the time that slots at TJ are taken up by out of county students (exception is London) That could become a new cause celebre for some parents though and who knows maybe Fairfax reduces the slots, charges even more or eliminates them

It might be once the career center is finished then they plan would be for APS to drop their slots.

Maybe APS can raise some money by offering a select number of slots to Alexandria City residents to attend APS and then charge the City tuition or heck even the parents. Non religious private high schools close to Alexandria city are not exactly plentiful. Wakefield can be offered at a discount. APS overcrowds the schools anyways what’s another 10 students here and there ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not see any difference between paying Fairfax $25k for 18 students and giving those same kids a $25k voucher to go use at the school of their choosing. What about the kids who are really into art? Or music? Or writing?

Don’t give me the “governors school so we all pay for it” line. That is ridiculous. Guess what? We all pay for all kinds of things with state money that we don’t actually get to use. Like, for example, we all pay for private schools which are often non profits or affiliated with religions and thus exempt for taxation. We could be earning tax income from them but we don’t. I’m just saying that the fact that TJ gets some State money does not mean that APS should spend millions on a handful of kids.

Where are the area's governor's schools for art, music, and writing that Arlington is allowed to send their students to?
TJHSST actually has a very strong music program. Marching band and cololorguards are very competitive. Much more competitive than what Arlington schools offer.

Arlington’s high school bands (jazz, marching, etc.) have been award winning for years, at the highest ratings. W-L and Yorktown traditionally, and Wakefield has improved greatly over the past ten years.

There are no local arts or performing arts governors schools since the comprehensive hs programs are strong and there hasn’t been a push to create one. The idea has come up in Arlington a number of times, but the decision was made to create Arlington Tech which is a Governors Academy.

Precisely. There aren't any. So the comment about "what about the kids who are really into art" etc. is a non-starter to the TJ conversation. And "Wakefield has improved greatly" does not = same quality or competitiveness level or same opportunity.

I assume the PP meant something like school vouchers, but I’m not sure.

And yes, TJ has an impressive marching band. But it’s not an arts school, and fewer than 100 TJ kids go marching band.
Also, the Wakefield marching band got straight superiors at their assessment last fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Ok then let’s call it a way to reduce class sizes.

I can see why you are anti-TJ, you seem to be pretty anti-math. If x number fewer kids go to a school, they don't reduce class sizes. Class sizes are determined by planning factors. The planning factors are established by the school board and listed in a book/manual.

If the planning factor for a class is 25 and 21 kids show up, they get a teacher. If 29 kids sign up, they will divide them into two sections. Sending 25 kids to TJ (from three high schools) doesn't change the planning factors--it might have a tiny tiny effect on how many sections of a class are offered in a school.

This is why the finance department doesn't have precise estimates of every possible budget scenario (especially when it comes to option schools) and goes by averages. They can't tell you the exact effect changes would have on staffing because it has to do with what home schools those kids are assigned to, what grades they are in, how close to the planning factors those grades are already--or the specific classes those kids would enroll in, whether those kids would be bus riders or not at their home schools, etc. etc.

We're talking about a $825 million budget here. The total cost of sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ is less than 0.1% of the budget, so the marginal difference in cost (up or down) between sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ versus keeping them in Arlington is like a hundredth of a percent.

Yup. This whole thread is discussing negligible line items.

What we really need is full funding from Youngkin and the county.

That’s the primary source of the deficit. Where does that stand??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ACPS stopped sending kids to TJ about 12 years ago. Every time the budget comes up there is an outcry that schools aren’t funded enough or well enough. So kids not going to TJ won’t fix a budget issue.

TJ limits the number of kids surrounding counties and cities can send. And then each county or city limits the budget allocated so further limiting the number of slots. APS could reduce their slots at TJ but it’s maybe it’s a case of you give them up you don’t get them back. Also I think it goes unnoticed by FCPS parents a lot of the time that slots at TJ are taken up by out of county students (exception is London) That could become a new cause celebre for some parents though and who knows maybe Fairfax reduces the slots, charges even more or eliminates them

It might be once the career center is finished then they plan would be for APS to drop their slots.

Maybe APS can raise some money by offering a select number of slots to Alexandria City residents to attend APS and then charge the City tuition or heck even the parents. Non religious private high schools close to Alexandria city are not exactly plentiful. Wakefield can be offered at a discount. APS overcrowds the schools anyways what’s another 10 students here and there ?

???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Ok then let’s call it a way to reduce class sizes.

I can see why you are anti-TJ, you seem to be pretty anti-math. If x number fewer kids go to a school, they don't reduce class sizes. Class sizes are determined by planning factors. The planning factors are established by the school board and listed in a book/manual.

If the planning factor for a class is 25 and 21 kids show up, they get a teacher. If 29 kids sign up, they will divide them into two sections. Sending 25 kids to TJ (from three high schools) doesn't change the planning factors--it might have a tiny tiny effect on how many sections of a class are offered in a school.

This is why the finance department doesn't have precise estimates of every possible budget scenario (especially when it comes to option schools) and goes by averages. They can't tell you the exact effect changes would have on staffing because it has to do with what home schools those kids are assigned to, what grades they are in, how close to the planning factors those grades are already--or the specific classes those kids would enroll in, whether those kids would be bus riders or not at their home schools, etc. etc.

We're talking about a $825 million budget here. The total cost of sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ is less than 0.1% of the budget, so the marginal difference in cost (up or down) between sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ versus keeping them in Arlington is like a hundredth of a percent.

Yup. This whole thread is discussing negligible line items.

What we really need is full funding from Youngkin and the county.

And what exactly is full funding???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Ok then let’s call it a way to reduce class sizes.

I can see why you are anti-TJ, you seem to be pretty anti-math. If x number fewer kids go to a school, they don't reduce class sizes. Class sizes are determined by planning factors. The planning factors are established by the school board and listed in a book/manual.

If the planning factor for a class is 25 and 21 kids show up, they get a teacher. If 29 kids sign up, they will divide them into two sections. Sending 25 kids to TJ (from three high schools) doesn't change the planning factors--it might have a tiny tiny effect on how many sections of a class are offered in a school.

This is why the finance department doesn't have precise estimates of every possible budget scenario (especially when it comes to option schools) and goes by averages. They can't tell you the exact effect changes would have on staffing because it has to do with what home schools those kids are assigned to, what grades they are in, how close to the planning factors those grades are already--or the specific classes those kids would enroll in, whether those kids would be bus riders or not at their home schools, etc. etc.

We're talking about a $825 million budget here. The total cost of sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ is less than 0.1% of the budget, so the marginal difference in cost (up or down) between sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ versus keeping them in Arlington is like a hundredth of a percent.

I don’t know why you took that as an Anti-TJ response. I’m pro TJ and if it gets pulled to give lip service to a couple of agitators I’ll quit my APS job and pull my very smart kid too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Ok then let’s call it a way to reduce class sizes.

I can see why you are anti-TJ, you seem to be pretty anti-math. If x number fewer kids go to a school, they don't reduce class sizes. Class sizes are determined by planning factors. The planning factors are established by the school board and listed in a book/manual.

If the planning factor for a class is 25 and 21 kids show up, they get a teacher. If 29 kids sign up, they will divide them into two sections. Sending 25 kids to TJ (from three high schools) doesn't change the planning factors--it might have a tiny tiny effect on how many sections of a class are offered in a school.

This is why the finance department doesn't have precise estimates of every possible budget scenario (especially when it comes to option schools) and goes by averages. They can't tell you the exact effect changes would have on staffing because it has to do with what home schools those kids are assigned to, what grades they are in, how close to the planning factors those grades are already--or the specific classes those kids would enroll in, whether those kids would be bus riders or not at their home schools, etc. etc.

We're talking about a $825 million budget here. The total cost of sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ is less than 0.1% of the budget, so the marginal difference in cost (up or down) between sending a couple of dozen kids to TJ versus keeping them in Arlington is like a hundredth of a percent.

Yup. This whole thread is discussing negligible line items.

What we really need is full funding from Youngkin and the county.

And what exactly is full funding???

Senate proposal is a start - pg 32
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/D2WW4J839BAE/$file/FY%202025%20Superintendent's%20Presentation%20FINAL%20(331%20pm).pdf

The state and county should step up and appropriately fund our schools.
"“Virginia school divisions receive less K-12 funding per student than the 50-state average,
the regional average, and three of Virginia’s five bordering states. School divisions in other
states receive 14 percent more per student than school divisions in Virginia, on average,
after normalizing for differences in cost of labor among states. This equates to about
$1,900 more per student than Virginia.”
Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission (JLARC)
estimates that annually APS is underfunded by approximately $51 million"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Umm.... it is actually saying the opposite. I think you are reading comprehension challenged.

You are reading and math challenged. It literally says APS "does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson". That was true in 1997 and it's true today when tuition is much higher.

If it costs less to send kids to TJ, why doesn't Alexandria opt in? Do Falls Church and Manassas still require families to pay the tuition? Put APS kids on a sliding scale like we do for Montessori Pre-K.

Falls Church pays to send its students to TJ. It also pays APS to send them to the Career Center.
One way to keep educational costs more efficient is to coordinate and collaborate with other jurisdictions when feasible. APS will never be able to offer a TJHSST education, so we take advantage of the opportunity down the road.

By “taking advantage of” you means paying tuition for an infinitesimally small number of APS’ students.

I can think of so many things APS doesn’t offer for my child. And I’ve had to get along. Because it’s a public school for all the children in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

We should be getting more slots at TJ, not fewer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should be getting more slots at TJ, not fewer.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Umm.... it is actually saying the opposite. I think you are reading comprehension challenged.

You are reading and math challenged. It literally says APS "does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson". That was true in 1997 and it's true today when tuition is much higher.

If it costs less to send kids to TJ, why doesn't Alexandria opt in? Do Falls Church and Manassas still require families to pay the tuition? Put APS kids on a sliding scale like we do for Montessori Pre-K.

Falls Church pays to send its students to TJ. It also pays APS to send them to the Career Center.
One way to keep educational costs more efficient is to coordinate and collaborate with other jurisdictions when feasible. APS will never be able to offer a TJHSST education, so we take advantage of the opportunity down the road.

By “taking advantage of” you means paying tuition for an infinitesimally small number of APS’ students.

I can think of so many things APS doesn’t offer for my child. And I’ve had to get along. Because it’s a public school for all the children in Arlington.

I’m sure many of the kids who have schlepped to TJHSST every day wish that APS offered more challenging classes in their home schools.

If there is a way to meet some kids’ needs with little effort and no major cost, you think we shouldn’t do it unless we can meet every child’s needs? Guess you didn’t learn about “Pareto optimalization” in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/10/02/arlington-schools-may-ease-stance-on-jefferson-high/6ac6403c-ef7f-406a-bc4a-a3eb654e1734/


Article from 1997 about aps paying tuition to tj

For the math challenged on this forum this 1997 article explains why sending kids to TJ does not save APS money no matter what TJ costs:

The $8,000 is less than the average $9,305 cost of educating a student in the Arlington system. But the system does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson because it cannot, for example, reduce the salaries of teachers when a few students leave their classes, school officials explained.

Umm.... it is actually saying the opposite. I think you are reading comprehension challenged.

You are reading and math challenged. It literally says APS "does not save any money by sending a student to Jefferson". That was true in 1997 and it's true today when tuition is much higher.

If it costs less to send kids to TJ, why doesn't Alexandria opt in? Do Falls Church and Manassas still require families to pay the tuition? Put APS kids on a sliding scale like we do for Montessori Pre-K.

Falls Church pays to send its students to TJ. It also pays APS to send them to the Career Center.
One way to keep educational costs more efficient is to coordinate and collaborate with other jurisdictions when feasible. APS will never be able to offer a TJHSST education, so we take advantage of the opportunity down the road.

By “taking advantage of” you means paying tuition for an infinitesimally small number of APS’ students.

I can think of so many things APS doesn’t offer for my child. And I’ve had to get along. Because it’s a public school for all the children in Arlington.

I’m sure many of the kids who have schlepped to TJHSST every day wish that APS offered more challenging classes in their home schools.

If there is a way to meet some kids’ needs with little effort and no major cost, you think we shouldn’t do it unless we can meet every child’s needs? Guess you didn’t learn about “Pareto optimalization” in college.

TJHSST has very specialised lab equipment with all the bells and whistles. APS could never get their hands on this stuff: https://www.washingtonpost.com/community-relations/thomas-jefferson-high-school-enhances-research-capabilities/2015/01/29/d6646892-a7f0-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html