Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.

"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?

But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?

Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.

It matters because Harvard admitted students with very low scores in the name of R

Why can't Harvard admit students who have low test scores or no test scores at all?

They can as long as they don't discriminate against race

And the courts have found that they do not.

Sorry we have Supreme Court going on right now.
It's called 'Supreme' for a reason.

Yes, they are deciding whether or not to change decided precedent. That means these schools followed the law as it was, which is what the lower courts found. But now, this new Supreme Court may decided to change the established law (even though they aren't supposed to do that). I would not anticipate a retroactive application of it if they do change the law though.

Nope, they don't change the law.
Law makers change the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.

"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?

But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?

Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.

It matters because Harvard admitted students with very low scores in the name of R

Why can't Harvard admit students who have low test scores or no test scores at all?

They can as long as they don't discriminate against race

And the courts have found that they do not.

Sorry we have Supreme Court going on right now.
It's called 'Supreme' for a reason.

Yes, they are deciding whether or not to change decided precedent. That means these schools followed the law as it was, which is what the lower courts found. But now, this new Supreme Court may decided to change the established law (even though they aren't supposed to do that). I would not anticipate a retroactive application of it if they do change the law though.

Nope, they don't change the law.
Law makers change the law.

Yes, they do. When the overturn settled precedent, they are changing the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prediction: Black SAT scores rise discontinuously in 2023.

Prediction: test optional becomes the norm in 2023 and SAT scores become even LESS relevant.

A lot of students won't take the SAT/ ACT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.

"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?

But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?

Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.

It matters because Harvard admitted students with very low scores in the name of R

Why can't Harvard admit students who have low test scores or no test scores at all?

They can as long as they don't discriminate against race

And the courts have found that they do not.

Sorry we have Supreme Court going on right now.
It's called 'Supreme' for a reason.

Yes, they are deciding whether or not to change decided precedent. That means these schools followed the law as it was, which is what the lower courts found. But now, this new Supreme Court may decided to change the established law (even though they aren't supposed to do that). I would not anticipate a retroactive application of it if they do change the law though.

Nope, they don't change the law.
Law makers change the law.

Both the judicial and the legislative branches make law. That's why schools integrated, and children can't work full-time jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

It simply isn't true that these schools are as coveted as USNWR makes it out to be. Harvard has a low admissions percentage, but it gets less than half the number of applicants that other colleges get. Of the more than 2 million high school students who apply to college only a little over 1% even apply to Harvard. This is an issue of interest to far fewer people than you may believe.

+1 this is an issue for approximately 100 schools in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

+1 especially all-women/ all-men schools will see lawsuits, especially considering the politics around LGBTQ rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After listening to the hours of oral argument yesterday, I am confident the Court will hold that the use of race standing alone (i.e., check the box) is illegal. However, there are plenty of other factors they can consider such as socioeconomic status, ability to overcome hardship (as demonstrated in essays), etc. In the end, this will impact the make up of student bodies in the following way (according to models, what's happening at schools that have already made these changes): there will be more Asians, fewer whites, more Latinos, and fewer blacks. Is that good or bad? I don't know, but if whites think this is what's going to get your kid into Harvard, think again.

The biggest change will be number of women. It will take longer, but once race is disallowed, there will be lawsuits using the same logic challenging the use of gender. Right now, girls out preform boys across the board in high school.

+1 especially all-women/ all-men schools will see lawsuits, especially considering the politics around LGBTQ rights.

It came up in the oral argument.

[Anonymous]

Explain why Asians have to score higher than everyone else on the MCAT and have to have significantly higher GPAs than certain groups in order to get into medical school:



It is literally using race to hold people to different standards. Which is racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prediction: Black SAT scores rise discontinuously in 2023.

Prediction: test optional becomes the norm in 2023 and SAT scores become even LESS relevant.

A lot of students won't take the SAT/ ACT.

Totally wrong.
Most students will take the test multiple times, and if scores are low, then hide it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prediction: Black SAT scores rise discontinuously in 2023.

Prediction: test optional becomes the norm in 2023 and SAT scores become even LESS relevant.

A lot of students won't take the SAT/ ACT.

The new digital 2-hour SAT seems basically useless at this point. Making it easier and easier doesn't make it more relevant to colleges.

[Anonymous]

Might have made a mistake w/ the code:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prediction: Black SAT scores rise discontinuously in 2023.

Prediction: test optional becomes the norm in 2023 and SAT scores become even LESS relevant.

A lot of students won't take the SAT/ ACT.

Prediction:

When universities get rid of SATs and all standards because they cannot achieve desired racial quotas, Americans universities and education go down the toilet for rigor, international students avoid toxic US universities at all costs, US universities dramatically plummet in international rankings, and China eats US' lunch in innovation and STEM training because they only care about academic excellence, not any of this diversity fluff and lowering the bar in order to achieve racial quotas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Might have made a mistake w/ the code:

Interesting. Source? And what do you find surprising about this? Asian-Black gap is about 1 SD for both MCAT and GPA, large but significantly smaller than other standardized metrics like SAT probably because of the population. (Of course both measures are right-censored which pushes down Asian means, but then so is the SAT.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Higher education shoud be mainly for acedemic merit and must be color blind.

"Of 35,000 applicants competing for 1,600 spots in the class of 2019, 2,700 had perfect verbal SAT scores; 3,400 had perfect math SAT scores; more than 8,000 had perfect GPAs."

From the facts in the actual case. Now what?

But that are the scores of the applicants. What are the verbal SAT, math SAT, and GPA of the admitted students?

Why does that matter. Harvard would not be able to fill its seats based merely on a formula on "objective" scores like SAT scores or GPA. If they only considered perfect GPA or perfect SAT scores or whatever, they would still have to choose between applicants to fill their class. And they, as a private institution, should be able to decide that these scores are not what they are looking for in a student body. They have determined that their formula for selecting Harvard students tries to suss out potential to make an impact in some way or the other. They may be wrong. And if they are wrong, their brand value will go down. Let the market determine if their strategy is successful or not.

It matters because Harvard admitted students with very low scores in the name of R

Why can't Harvard admit students who have low test scores or no test scores at all?

They can as long as they don't discriminate against race

And the courts have found that they do not.

Sorry we have Supreme Court going on right now.
It's called 'Supreme' for a reason.

Yes, they are deciding whether or not to change decided precedent. That means these schools followed the law as it was, which is what the lower courts found. But now, this new Supreme Court may decided to change the established law (even though they aren't supposed to do that). I would not anticipate a retroactive application of it if they do change the law though.

Nope, they don't change the law.
Law makers change the law.

Yes, they do. When the overturn settled precedent, they are changing the law.

No, they can overturn precedent because it violates Constitution.
It's not making law.